rising gas prices

sothsegger

Member
Jul 6, 2004
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A commentator from Oilwatch.org (see article quoted below) described gasoline as a "broken market." What does she mean by that? What is a "broken market?"


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The California "Gasoline Price Penalty"

Like all of you I could see it coming, but that doesn't make California's gasoline-price record easier to take. We shot this week past last year's record of $3.38 a gallon, even though oil prices are $6 a barrel below where they were last year. The difference this year? Huge, unheard-of profits on manufacturing gasoline. Even the national pump price average is nudging $3.00, about to break a record set last August.

Still, it's California paying the big price penalty ? $7 to $15 per fill-up above the US average, according to a new Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights study released today. See footage of the press announcement here.

That's not all we talked about at OilWatchdog this week. High points include a chicken deal that won't fly, the tabloid adventures of the BP CEO and Chevron attorneys leaning hard on one of your watchdogs, Jamie Court. Talk about "crude" behavior.

Some of you ask why OilWatchdog doesn't rejoice at higher prices, since eventually they would reduce gasoline consumption. It's because, without alternatives, high prices punish those least able to afford a $60 fill-up. And in the unregulated Wild West of gasoline prices, drivers' wallets empty straight into oil company pockets instead of boosting public transit or renewable fuels or conservation.

OilWatchdog demands that government step in, since gasoline is a broken market, and fix supply issues and price manipulation first. We all know the permanent fixes: renewable fuels, better transit systems, green technologies, auto efficiency. Quit letting oil companies talk green while they embrace the global petroleum drug.

So why is it so hard to get government off its duff? (Aside from a White House occupied by oilmen.)

Read on for the lowdown on how oil companies took last quarter's record profits directly from your pockets, as well as our more lowbrow offerings. Exxon profits here, Chevron profits here.

Sign on to OilWatchdog, too, and let us know with your comments what you think.

Judy Dugan
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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I think it's that the combination of less refining and lots of speculation causes higher prices than there should be.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Cerb
I think it's that the combination of less refining and lots of speculation causes higher prices than there should be.

If they are making less gaoline and speculation of even less gasoline and these people are in the making of gasoline biusiness, how come it's not criminal???
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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There is no breaking of the law - therefore it is not criminal - some may feel that it is socially irresponsible.

Those that spread FUD are just as much to blame.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Cerb
I think it's that the combination of less refining and lots of speculation causes higher prices than there should be.

If it's less refining then why are we not out of gasoline?

Per CNN this morning, there is currently a full 19 day supply of refined products in the US. Not sure how that stacks up historically. Typically, there is a drop around this time of year as refineries switch blends of gasoline from Winter blend to Spring/Summer blend. Refining capacity, in general, is just too damn small for the prices to not continue to go up. Unless more refining capacity is added, prices will continue to rise until demand balances.

CNN stated since the price has went above $2.50 per gallon, rise in demand has been cut from an anual 3.5% rise to a 1% rise and will likely go negative now that gasoline is at an average $3.03 in the US (all time high - non inflation adjusted - was in 2005 at $3.06).

Also, a blurb from CNN was that there is currently plenty of oil. Refining is the issue. But as I stated earlier....why build refineries when you're raking in record profits and paying your CEO up to $400,000,000 per year? No reason from their end.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Cerb
I think it's that the combination of less refining and lots of speculation causes higher prices than there should be.
If they are making less gaoline and speculation of even less gasoline and these people are in the making of gasoline biusiness, how come it's not criminal???
The easiest explanation would be that it's not a bad enough problem for us to riot over it, and no one is paying politicians to make it criminal.

Whether that's the reality, I'm not sure.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is no breaking of the law - therefore it is not criminal - some may feel that it is socially irresponsible.

Those that spread FUD are just as much to blame.

Considering the tax breaks they get and the use of our military .. they should be more responsible
 

nergee

Senior member
Jan 25, 2000
843
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Wasn't average gas prices around $2.85 / gal around this time last year? I just paid $2.93 for a gallon of regular.......
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
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Originally posted by: nergee
Wasn't average gas prices around $2.85 / gal around this time last year? I just paid $2.93 for a gallon of regular.......
http://gasbuddy.com

Avg PPG Today: 3.061
Avg PPG 1 Yr Ago: 2.902
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,139
236
106
Greed and Profits... That is what is behind it. It's rather simple....
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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It seems like they have an Oligopoly, more or less. In other markets, if prices and profitability increase due to a price-inelastic demand and a shortage of supply or a shortage of the capability to produce the supply, then other firms would enter into the market to take advantage of the high prices and high profits. However, in this case, the barrier to entry into the market is very high so the members of the oligopoly aren't feeling much pressure, if any at all.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
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Higher oil/gas prices will encourage investment in alternative energies. The countries acting on Kyoto and reduction of GHG emissions have some of the highest gas prices in the world. You can't have it both ways...

Either accept higher prices for the sake of reduced consumption or advocate lower prices and the consumption that comes with it.
Just another example where the left are hypocrites.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
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FUD from a known FUD group.

Gasoline prices are high because.
1. Too many boutique blends, many of which require extra refining steps.
2. Not enough refineries to allow the economy to handle offline repairs
3. Oil prices.
4. TAXES, which return to the government 3 to 5 times what the oil company makes in profit, if not more
5. Speculation on world oil and gasoline markets

Hell, you would think envirowhackos would celebrate high gas prices.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,360
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Originally posted by: kedlav
Originally posted by: jpeyton
what's behind rising gas prices?
Rising profits.

[/thread]

QFT. The oil co.'s are setting record profits quarter after quarter, and nothings stopping them from jacking up prices more.

Soooo you think the oil companies set gasoline prices? hahahaha

And so what if oil co's are making profits...buy some ****** energy mutual fund shares and put that back in your pocket and quit b1tching about it.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,360
126
Originally posted by: Stunt
Higher oil/gas prices will encourage investment in alternative energies. The countries acting on Kyoto and reduction of GHG emissions have some of the highest gas prices in the world. You can't have it both ways...

Either accept higher prices for the sake of reduced consumption or advocate lower prices and the consumption that comes with it.
Just another example where the left are hypocrites.

Dont leave out investors in energy stocks...higher gas/oil prices, higher volume in energy shares = more profit for shareholders :D
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,536
609
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I think dave was wrong...its not drive for five...its drive for six. or more
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
1,401
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$3.53 for regular, on the Westside in Los Angeles. $70.00 to fill up. Someone is making HUGE money.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,360
126
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I think dave was wrong...its not drive for five...its drive for six. or more

Good. I hope so. More money in my retirement account :) I think the pricepoint at which retail prices pass my overall COST for gas is about 16 bucks/gal. Otherwise Im ok with gas prices.

And no, Im not rich. Just a smart invester in my IRA and 401k.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I think dave was wrong...its not drive for five...its drive for six. or more

Good. I hope so. More money in my retirement account :) I think the pricepoint at which retail prices pass my overall COST for gas is about 16 bucks/gal. Otherwise Im ok with gas prices.

And no, Im not rich. Just a smart invester in my IRA and 401k.

All the money tied up in Oil Baron supported IRA and 401K funds should be seized immediately for a National Energy Policy.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,360
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I think dave was wrong...its not drive for five...its drive for six. or more

Good. I hope so. More money in my retirement account :) I think the pricepoint at which retail prices pass my overall COST for gas is about 16 bucks/gal. Otherwise Im ok with gas prices.

And no, Im not rich. Just a smart invester in my IRA and 401k.

All the money tied up in Oil Baron supported IRA and 401K funds should be seized immediately for a National Energy Policy.

Thank God it's a FREE market and not a totalitarian market like you want. Then we'd all be broke.