Rise and Fall of Lionhead Studios

[paperfist]

It's a pretty massive and entertaining read on the now defunct company if you don't have ADD.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-12-lionhead-the-inside-story

 

[PrincessFrosty]

People like Molyneux should never head up studios, all the succesful studios long term have had creative people in creative positions and real managers and capitalists as owners, because creativiy needs to be kept in check to actually produce something you can sell in a streamlined way. Same really went for 3D Realms and Duke Nukem and even to a lesser extent with Will Wright, I think the last thing he did was Spore which had a similar issue of being very creative but going through ridiculous development periods to actually build a game around the ideas. Molyneux has faded into obscurity just the way Will Wright did and most of the team at 3D Realms.

Oldy enough the much earlier and simpler games of things that Bullfrog produced are (at least to me) some of the best games you can play today, theme hospital and dungeon keeper, populus...these game ideas were revolutionary. Will Wrights earlier work on Sim City followed in the same footsteps.

They just got too big for their boots, they'd have been better off with tiny development teams and smaller ideas producing simple yet fun games. I'd kill to resurrect Bullfrog in its original form that was the golden age of PC gaming without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Sonikku]

I own and beat all three of the Fable games. I was dismayed to hear of the company's closure.

 

[exar333]

Always felt they were WAY overrated anyways. That said, I don't begrudge anyone who enjoyed their games, nor those who worked there. I REALLY wanted to like the fable series, but it was never enjoyable for me. Similar experience with B&W and other Peter M. titles. *shrug*

Anyways, thanks for the link OP. Will plan to read this through...

 

[JimmiG]

People like Molyneux should never head up studios, all the succesful studios long term have had creative people in creative positions and real managers and capitalists as owners, because creativiy needs to be kept in check to actually produce something you can sell in a streamlined way. Same really went for 3D Realms and Duke Nukem and even to a lesser extent with Will Wright, I think the last thing he did was Spore which had a similar issue of being very creative but going through ridiculous development periods to actually build a game around the ideas. Molyneux has faded into obscurity just the way Will Wright did and most of the team at 3D Realms.

Oldy enough the much earlier and simpler games of things that Bullfrog produced are (at least to me) some of the best games you can play today, theme hospital and dungeon keeper, populus...these game ideas were revolutionary. Will Wrights earlier work on Sim City followed in the same footsteps.

They just got too big for their boots, they'd have been better off with tiny development teams and smaller ideas producing simple yet fun games. I'd kill to resurrect Bullfrog in its original form that was the golden age of PC gaming without a shadow of a doubt.

Yeah, studios need both types of people. Creative types to dream up crazy and overambitious ideas, and business people to remind the creative guys that this is the real world where dreams and hopes get crushed.

Black & White was an amazing game which I really enjoyed. It was new and refreshing, and with an amazing graphics engine for its time. The sequel was OK - too linear and narrative driven for my taste.

Never got into Fable. It always seemed inferior to the more established RPG series.

 

[Tweak155]

Long and fairly interesting... but overall a 6.5/10.

 

[Craig234]

Gaming is nothing without the creative leaders.

That doesn't mean they don't also need others who can run the company.

Of course it also needs customers who support the game makers.

Funny but related anecdote: the Monkees sold more albums than the Beatles while they were both creating albums. Thank goodness enough people bought the Beatles.

 

[magomago]

People like Molyneux should never head up studios, all the succesful studios long term have had creative people in creative positions and real managers and capitalists as owners, because creativiy needs to be kept in check to actually produce something you can sell in a streamlined way. Same really went for 3D Realms and Duke Nukem and even to a lesser extent with Will Wright, I think the last thing he did was Spore which had a similar issue of being very creative but going through ridiculous development periods to actually build a game around the ideas. Molyneux has faded into obscurity just the way Will Wright did and most of the team at 3D Realms.

Oldy enough the much earlier and simpler games of things that Bullfrog produced are (at least to me) some of the best games you can play today, theme hospital and dungeon keeper, populus...these game ideas were revolutionary. Will Wrights earlier work on Sim City followed in the same footsteps.

They just got too big for their boots, they'd have been better off with tiny development teams and smaller ideas producing simple yet fun games. I'd kill to resurrect Bullfrog in its original form that was the golden age of PC gaming without a shadow of a doubt.

Cant read now, but a slight point: if you let business leaders/managers drive it first, you'll get the same game with little excitement.

Let the creative ones try to implement their vision... but make them scale down on the scope when they encounter major difficulties that may derail the whole project or double a time line. In addition, squash any sign of scope creep.

Sometimes, the full vision isn't realized on the first release, but its still a great game nonetheless.

Regardless of industry, improperly scoped projects are always doomed for failure (be it due to scope creep, or be it due to an inability to make hard decisions and scale down the scope).

Zero clue if it applies to this article, but excited to read it later

 

[cmdrdredd]

I own and beat all three of the Fable games. I was dismayed to hear of the company's closure.

Me too, I really thought Fable Legends had some good ideas and would be fun for a group.

 

[ibex333]

Played and beat the 1st Fable. The rest, first appeared on consoles, and when no one cared about it anymore, the PC. At that point, I didn't even care.

 

[sweenish]

Played and beat the 1st Fable. The rest, first appeared on consoles, and when no one cared about it anymore, the PC. At that point, I didn't even care.

1 launched on PC a year later, but with the lost chapters; a month before the lost chapters version launched on console

2 is still console exclusive.

3's launch was 7 months later.

Very little of what you said is really correct.

 

[clok1966]

Always felt they were WAY overrated anyways. That said, I don't begrudge anyone who enjoyed their games, nor those who worked there. I REALLY wanted to like the fable series, but it was never enjoyable for me. Similar experience with B&W and other Peter M. titles. *shrug*

Anyways, thanks for the link OP. Will plan to read this through...

And you are correct if those are the game you feel he should be remembered for.
Now love it or hate it they created the GOD game, the THEME game (anybody who helped usher in 20 Roller Coaster tycoon games is not good in my book), etc. All of the early games he had a hand in where Original, and some created the glut of copy cats you see today (again the THEME games). Populous, DK, Syndicate,Magic Carpet (though i hear he did little with this one).

The reason Peter got the bad press is because he helped create such great games in the past, people expected it just keep going. I do think the man over promises, but if you don't dream big you don't do big. All them over the top ideas are what made the great games he did do.

So yes, Black & White, fable, etc.. are just ok games. and depending on how you look at it, maybe not even that. But the man did make great games and I think he should be remembered for them.

 

[DigDog]

In the 80s and 90s every game created was original(as in: creative); wasn't Lemmings creative and original? or Worms? Monkey Island? Wing Commander?

the standards were lower, games were easier to make and it took less people, studios hired people based on their creativity .. it was easy being original. people didn't complain about easily exploitable bugs, didn't demand extensive community features, and they were ready to put up with inferior products.
Also, companies didn't spend 90% of their budget on graphics. You just couldn't get that good graphics, so the effort went into gameplay and writing.

Anyway, Molinieux was always overrated; he had that massive hit with Popolous, but even Fable was considered half baked by many, more so considering the guy has a habit of promising the moon and never delivering.

Incidentally, *if i recall correctly*, Magic Carpet was the first game that required a CD player, right?
also, look at that gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zsPl4Ampw

come on, it's pathetic; style over substance. On the other hand, you got this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdObXjDdiO0

 

[BoberFett]

Molyneux put out some epic games back in the Bullfrog days, but for the last couple of decades it's all been overpromise and underdeliver. He should have been a designer with someone above him to keep him in check, not a company head.

Edit: And I see PrincessFrosty beat me to the punch.

 

[TidusZ]

Black and white, most overrated piece of crap game ever made.

I remember me and a friend going to EB Games to return our copies a few days after release, that we bought after seeing IGN give the game a 9.6. They would only give us $6 in store credit even though the game had just come out. That's my experience with black and white.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Black and white, most overrated piece of crap game ever made.

I remember me and a friend going to EB Games to return our copies a few days after release, that we bought after seeing IGN give the game a 9.6. They would only give us $6 in store credit even though the game had just come out. That's my experience with black and white.

I did t return it but I think I only played 30 minutes before I was bored of just eating the villagers.

 

[clok1966]

In the 80s and 90s every game created was original(as in: creative); wasn't Lemmings creative and original? or Worms? Monkey Island? Wing Commander?

the standards were lower, games were easier to make and it took less people, studios hired people based on their creativity .. it was easy being original. people didn't complain about easily exploitable bugs, didn't demand extensive community features, and they were ready to put up with inferior products.
Also, companies didn't spend 90% of their budget on graphics. You just couldn't get that good graphics, so the effort went into gameplay and writing.

Anyway, Molinieux was always overrated; he had that massive hit with Popolous, but even Fable was considered half baked by many, more so considering the guy has a habit of promising the moon and never delivering.

Incidentally, *if i recall correctly*, Magic Carpet was the first game that required a CD player, right?
also, look at that gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zsPl4Ampw

come on, it's pathetic; style over substance. On the other hand, you got this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdObXjDdiO0

I must admit maybe I see it with the "rose colored glasses" as I was around to play them when they where new. I dont much care for his new stuff but the old was awesome in its day (while not loved by all I bet you cant find a review back then that didn't give props to it being innovative (if they didnt find it fun) on most of Bullfrogs games. I think you needed the cd for the music (magic carpet), I seem to remember you could put any cd in and listen to the music, but i may be wrong. As for some of those other games, Worms was just a fancy dressed up version of an old PD game you could play in the TRS-80's called Howitzer, lemmings was loosely based an old PD game called Tin soldiers. Monkey Island was the standard Point and click that had been around for years (it was a very good one, but its game style was not original). Wing Commander, many flight sims, arcade like or realistic before it,in Fact WINGS (amiga) come out a month before it and used other people you fought with, kill scoreboards and a diary to tell a long branching story. NO not exactly the same, but in a general sense.

I guess I'm just saying populous, Theme Hospital, and Dungeon keeper where pretty much like nothing else when they came out. Magic Carpet, flight sim with base building and resource gathering, I dont think there was anything like that then, but I can go with it being un original as its just a flight sim.

Eh.. no worries, we all have our opinions, yours is as valid as mine. good discussion.

 

[DooKey]

Black and white, most overrated piece of crap game ever made.

I remember me and a friend going to EB Games to return our copies a few days after release, that we bought after seeing IGN give the game a 9.6. They would only give us $6 in store credit even though the game had just come out. That's my experience with black and white.

I'm with you. B&W was a POS as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TheVrolok]

Interesting to see the reaction to B&W in this thread. I absolutely loved B&W. B&W2 didn't do much for me, but the original was fantastic.

 

[gorcorps]

Interesting to see the reaction to B&W in this thread. I absolutely loved B&W. B&W2 didn't do much for me, but the original was fantastic.

I'm the opposite. Well, I wouldn't call either of them fantastic... but I got a lot further in B&W2 before I got bored and stopped playing than I did in the original.

 

[clok1966]

Interesting to see the reaction to B&W in this thread. I absolutely loved B&W. B&W2 didn't do much for me, but the original was fantastic.

I quite enjoyed B&W too, but I think this was the start of Pete's promise the world, and not deliver days. I read reviews and such before the game came out and when I got the game it was nothing Like I assumed it would be. At first it felt a bit like a baysitter simulation, you did everything for your people, and tried to train you Monster (do you call it a monster?) which to me seemed to train about as well as a baby. It felt to much like work. But after getting through the early days and when your teaching started being replicated by your Monster it got much better, and was fun. But there is no doubt it took some boring (bad in my book) gameplay to get to the better stuff. No game should be that way to start. I looked at it like a book, the beginning was a bit boring as it was trying to lay ground work, you had to do boring stuff over and over, but one you got in a bit it was much better.

Anybody know if B&W will run on win10? I know i have my disc laying someplace.

 

[xantub]

It's important for the managerial tier to harness the creative tier ambitions, keep the game within 'makeable' parameters. The problem is when the managerial tier grows so big that it becomes the most important part of the company, and then they dictate what the creative tier can create. "I want to make a game about space exploration in a multi-generational ship" and the managers say "Our marketing team says zombies are hot right now, change that to something like space zombies and come back."

 

[Sonikku]

"Suddenly it was like, holy shit, we're a real developer. We're somebody. We're successful, and we're reaping the rewards. We were suddenly able to access Microsoft tools, and every PC had a legitimate copy of Windows for once."

Molyneux's other directive: Fable 2 must have a dog.

:awe:

And that dog must die.

:'(

 

[Subyman]

Decent read although it was scattered. I didn't care for how the author jumped between different time periods and then wrapped back around. I think it could have used more structure. Some of the stories weren't even worth reading IMO. Still some interesting insight into the company.

I was a Fable 1 fan, but didn't care for the sequels. I never got into B&W and was never a Molyneux fan. His "aimless" style never appealed to me.