Rip-off? Also: Brake issue after bearings replaced.

[CZroe]

TL;DR:
-Front bearings, rotors, and pads replaced months ago after wheel noise when rolling + steering shake when braking
-One bearing replaced again under warranty a couple weeks ago along with brake system flush after noise and shake returned
-Steering shake when braking notably worse after picking up from warranty bearing service
-Shake is obviously related to the bad bearing covered by warranty but not resolved with warranty work
-Took it back and they want $330 for new drum brakes + grinding the still-new front rotors
-Bad rear drums couldn't cause steering wheel shakes, right?
-Rotors typically get serviced during bearing work, right?
-Should "turning the rotors" be covered as part of the warranty work since the bearings failed in less than a year?
-Seems disingenuous to act like the free warranty replacement makes me whole if I still have to pay hundreds for the brake issue I assume their bad bearing caused.
-Now I know why so many insist on OEM bearings ONLY. Wish I'd listened.

Last year my 2011 Corolla started having wheel noise like a prop plane and I started getting vibration and steering wheel shakes when braking. Classic "bad bearing." I took it in for service and about $900 later I had new front wheel bearings (they only replace them in pairs), new brake pads and discs, alignment, and all the rest of your typical service interval stuff (oil change, fluids, etc).

Well, 9 months later the loud bearing noise came back though it sounded different and I couldn't detect anything funny with the braking... at first. I thought it had to be something else since I had the bearings done so recently, it didn't sound quite like before (not like a prop plane), and I couldn't feel any shaking when braking. I have a manual transmission so it was easy to tell that it was definitely linked to wheel speed and not engine or fan speed. I also confirmed that it was coming from the front, which was where the new bearings were installed. The only way I could tell there was a shake when braking was to take my hands off the wheel and watch as the wheel would shimmy when I used the brakes. I couldn't always hear the noise but it was still there a few weeks later. Over that time the sheering wheel shaking got worse until I could easily feel it so I finally came around to the Idea I was resisting: it had to be another bad front bearing. Luckily, I was still under warranty because it was less than a year since the last time they were replaced.

It was almost time for my next service and the bearing work was covered so I took it back to the same service station I used before. This time I got fleeced for $700. Yeah, it was time for a new battery, brake system flush, cooling system flush, manual transmission fluid change, wipers, serpentine belt, cabin air filter, etc along with the usual (full synthetic oil change and such). In the process they unexpectedly charged me for a bunch of things I would've done myself... like battery installation, where the authorization phone call only discussed the price of the parts. I mean, they installed the wiper blades for free, but don't most auto parts places also include battery installation with purchase of a battery? It's bad enough that they charged nearly $11.47 for installing the cabin air filter (that goes right in the glove box) but even worse was $34.42 for "Battery Installation" and $13.30 for "Battery Service Chemicals." Laughable. I assume the "Chemicals" thing is just filling and activating a new battery with electrolyte... something I'm perfectly capable of and have done for my other vehicles. Again: I expected that to be free with the $116 battery like it would be at an auto parts store, especially since $115.99 was the only battery-related price we discussed over the phone when I authorized it.

So, yeah, even though the bearing service was covered under warranty they still got me. Furthermore, I noticed that they only replaced the left front wheel bearing despite their insistence months ago that they only replace them in pairs. Yeah: "only in pairs" when it's at my expense but when it's at their expense the line item is suddenly "Left Front Wheel Bearing." Grrr... but it gets worse: The brakes were shaking the steering wheel worse than ever when I got it back. I took it to them again yesterday and they gave me an estimate for $330 of brake service. Shouldn't that be part of the warranty work on the bearings? I paid for new rotors and pads with the original bearing service though admittedly I didn't get anything done with the rear drum brakes. On that note: They acted like the diagnosis for the shaking was that I needed rear drum brakes and they would also "turn" the front rotors (grind/machine them flat again). Obviously, the rear drum brakes aren't connected to my steering and wouldn't have anything to do with shaking the steering wheel during braking. They were literally new (replaced only months ago) and there has been no incident that would cause abnormal wear OTHER than the bad bearing.

So, here's what I need to know:
Am I right that the rear drum brakes are not related to the steering wheel brake'n'shake? Do I have any standing to insist that they hone the front rotors under the warranty from my service last year? I mean, they replaced the rotors and pads with the bearings in my $900 service and the warranty work for the bad bearing doesn't really make me whole if they are charging me hundreds for a brake issue caused by the premature bearing failure. I feel ripped-off.

 

[herm0016]

you should feel some pain in your backside. not just ripped off.

wheel bearings get replaced when they go bad, not in pairs.
unless you autocross or ride your brakes down a mountain every day, you should not have to turn the rotors after 9 months. all the flushing and filling is almost always a total rip off.

how many miles on this thing? they saw you walking in after the first go with dollar signs in their eyes!

 

[Steltek]

You are the customer. When you go in, tell them what you want done, have them write up a service order with estimate, and make is clear THIS is only what you want done and that they must talk to you before deviating in any way from the service order.

BTW, a bad brake line can cause steering wheel shakes and pulling when braking as well. It can also destroy brake pads and rotors as well as calipers and wheel bearings. I have a 94 Chevy Silverado that is proof of that.

Steering wheel started pulling lightly to the left when braking. Within a month, this progressed to the point where the vehicle would shimmy and the steering wheel eventually began seesawing back and forth if you even lightly pushed the brakes and released the wheel while braking. You could literally smell the pads burning at times, and the rotors literally warped under the heat. Went through two sets of front brake pads, rotors, calipers, and a right front wheel bearing and still couldn't fix it. We even went so far as to swap the master brake cylinder - no dice.

In the end, after three months we finally figured it out - it was GM's fault. Due to a material design failure, the interior of my brake lines had deteriorated and were partially blocking up under pressure instead of properly transferring brake fluid. The pressure was backing up, causing the brake pads on one side to repeatedly grab and release while the other side had insufficient pressure to brake, then the situation would suddenly reverse to the other side. As a result, the vehicle would shimmy when braking, and the wheel seesawing back and forth was literally due to the brakes grabbing on one side, releasing, grabbing on other side, wash/spin/repeat as the brake pressure transferred back and forth.

That was a miserable three months - I actually ended up having to buy a car to drive to work because my truck was completely unsafe to drive. All because of a set of improperly designed brake lines.

 

[CZroe]

you should feel some pain in your backside. not just ripped off.

wheel bearings get replaced when they go bad, not in pairs.

Well, I asked around last year and got conflicting answers on that. It seems that a lot of professionals insist on replacing them in pairs. I dunno, maybe it's to avoid a left/right mis-match when they aren't using OEM.

unless you autocross or ride your brakes down a mountain every day, you should not have to turn the rotors after 9 months. all the flushing and filling is almost always a total rip off.

Yeah, but that was supposed to be part of my 150,000 mile service anyway.

how many miles on this thing?

Just past 152K after picking it up.

they saw you walking in after the first go with dollar signs in their eyes!

Yeah, that's why I need to know:
Do I have a leg to stand on for insisting that they turn the rotors as part of the warranty service for the prematurely-failed bearing? Am I right to assume that it was likely cause by the bad bearing? Is it typically done when replacing a bad bearing with accompanying steering wheel shake?

Thanks.

You are the customer. When you go in, tell them what you want done, have them write up a service order with estimate, and make is clear THIS is only what you want done and that they must talk to you before deviating in any way from the service order.

Well, it's complicated by "social distancing" and a bunch of things I didn't want to go into but, yeah:

I diagnosed it as having a bad bearing and dropped it off a 1,000 miles before the next scheduled service interval while asking them to go ahead and do the 150,000 mile service. I also told them that that my battery barely made it through the winter and I probably need a new one depending on the price. They called me back and told me the price for the battery which was right in line with what I've paid when doing it myself (just over $110), so I approved it along with some other recommendations of theirs for the 150K service (transmission fluid, coolant flush, etc) with a couple extras they said I needed (wipers and such). Actually, I had a little back-and-forth with them over the transmission fluid because I assumed it was just engine oil for a manual transmission, much like my motorcycles. I thought manual transmissions didn't have transmission fluid and thought they may have assumed I had an automatic (shows how little I know).

Honestly, I don't recall them saying anything about the cabin air filter but that was probably implicitly approved when I asked for the 150K service. They definitely didn't say I was getting charged another $47.72 for battery installation/setup. Amazing that they'd charge so much to put in a battery (again: FREE at an auto parts store) and then not even use one of those EDB2 port saver devices to maintain my radio presets and clock setting.

BTW, a bad brake line can cause steering wheel shakes and pulling when braking as well. It can also destroy brake pads and rotors as well as calipers and wheel bearings. I have a 94 Chevy Silverado that is proof of that.

Steering wheel started pulling lightly to the left when braking. Within a month, this progressed to the point where the vehicle would shimmy and the steering wheel eventually began seesawing back and forth if you even lightly pushed the brakes and released the wheel while braking. You could literally smell the pads burning at times, and the rotors literally warped under the heat. Went through two sets of front brake pads, rotors, calipers, and a right front wheel bearing and still couldn't fix it. We even went so far as to swap the master brake cylinder - no dice.

In the end, after three months we finally figured it out - it was GM's fault. Due to a material design failure, the interior of my brake lines had deteriorated and were partially blocking up under pressure instead of properly transferring brake fluid. The pressure was backing up, causing the brake pads on one side to repeatedly grab and release while the other side had insufficient pressure to brake, then the situation would suddenly reverse to the other side. As a result, the vehicle would shimmy when braking, and the wheel seesawing back and forth was literally due to the brakes grabbing on one side, releasing, grabbing on other side, wash/spin/repeat as the brake pressure transferred back and forth.

That was a miserable three months - I actually ended up having to buy a car to drive to work because my truck was completely unsafe to drive. All because of a set of improperly designed brake lines.

That really sucks. Well, I got 9 months out of this before the bearing noise returned and, even then, I didn't feel the shaking from the front rotors until weeks later, so I don't think my situation is from bad brake lines. I did forget to mention that the TRAC OFF light came on the day I took it in, which means the Traction Control was turned off due to something wrong with the wheels/sensors/ABS. After they did the bearing work it went away and it's still gone, but the steering wheel shake was notably worse the day I picked it up from them. That's probably related to the freshly flushed and bled brake lines but it really does shake the whole car more.

Thanks.

 

[nakedfrog]

I'd wonder if the pads & rotors were just never properly bedded in, it does sound kind of like maybe the place that wouldn't bother doing it for you, and also not bother mentioning it to you.

 

[CZroe]

I'd wonder if the pads & rotors were just never properly bedded in, it does sound kind of like maybe the place that wouldn't bother doing it for you, and also not bother mentioning it to you.

Well, the shaking didn't come back until a couple weeks after the bearing noise which was 9 months after the rotors and bearings were first replaced. I recall doing some quick stops to make sure they were bedded in when I first picked it up and didn't have any shaking until after the premature bearing failure. I rode the bad bearing for weeks because the wheel wasn't wobbling when I jacked it up and it sounded different from before and the steering wasn't shaking under braking (at first).

As soon as the shaking started I knew it was a bad bearing again and took it in. I may have neglected to explicitly mention the shake to them when dropping it off (wasn't mentioned on the service order). Still, if I'm aware of the association enough that I used it for my diagnosis, they should be aware too. Since they only flushed and bleeded the brake that time I wouldn't expect them to bed the brakes in but I would expect them to test drive it and notice.

 

[Sgt. York]

Did you ever see the "bad" bearings after they were replaced?

 

[CZroe]

Just dropped it off. I pointed out that the brakes were purchased along with the bearings that failed prematurely and they were quick to agree that it is covered by the same 2 year/24k warranty.

Still not happy. I mean, this is literally the third time I brought it to them with this issue and they're probably only this willing because I'm getting the rear drum brakes replaced too (they aren't the first to suggest it). This should have been handled the last time I brought it back to them but, instead, they tried to tell me that what I "needed" was drum brakes even though it was completely unrelated to the problem I was asking them to deal with.

Did you ever see the "bad" bearings after they were replaced?

No, but the loud wheel noise came before the steering "brake'n'shake" and went away after it was replaced. According to my YouTube/Google research from a year ago, it was a pretty classic case of "bad wheel bearing" and I have no reason to doubt that.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Just dropped it off. I pointed out that the brakes were purchased along with the bearings that failed prematurely and they were quick to agree that it is covered by the same 2 year/24k warranty.

Still not happy. I mean, this is literally the third time I brought it to them with this issue and they're probably only this willing because I'm getting the rear drum brakes replaced too (they aren't the first to suggest it). This should have been handled the last time I brought it back to them but, instead, they tried to tell me that what I "needed" was drum brakes even though it was completely unrelated to the problem I was asking them to deal with.


No, but the loud wheel noise came before the steering "brake'n'shake" and went away after it was replaced. According to my YouTube/Google research from a year ago, it was a pretty classic case of "bad wheel bearing" and I have no reason to doubt that.

The idea behind seeing the bad bearing after it was replaced is not to confirm it was bad - it is to confirm they actually removed the old part and installed the new part you paid them for.

They may well have just disassembled your bad bearing, cleaned, and repacked it with grease and pocketed the money you paid them for the new bearing. This is one reason many people refuse to have work done unless they are given the old parts. It's one of the oldest scams in the book.

 

[Sgt. York]

Yep, my mechanic makes a point of showing me every replaced part and, if necessary, explains the failure. I would be wary of any mechanic who didn't offer to show the parts.

 

[herm0016]

looks like they should have replaced the wheel flange with the bearing. maybe they just pressed in the new bearing? or did so badly and its not seated properly? so you should be able to look behind the wheel and see the new part. drive it before you pay them, if its not fixed tell them to screw off and take it somewhere else. cut your losses. write them bad reviews.

good lord, this is why I do all the work that's possible for me to do myself, and if i don't do it, it goes to a dealer that I trust and I know will stand behind their work.

 

[CZroe]

Got the car back. Surprisingly they replaced the front rotors instead of just machining them.

Must've been worse than I thought, which is strange since the wheel was barely shaking when I first brought it to them for bearing work. Still, they needed to be replaced last time this happened and it seems they needed it again so perhaps something about the way Toyota bearings fail ends up ruining even new rotors.

The idea behind seeing the bad bearing after it was replaced is not to confirm it was bad - it is to confirm they actually removed the old part and installed the new part you paid them for.

They may well have just disassembled your bad bearing, cleaned, and repacked it with grease and pocketed the money you paid them for the new bearing. This is one reason many people refuse to have work done unless they are given the old parts. It's one of the oldest scams in the book.

I see. Well, this is a large shop with a lobby and a line, complicated further by the social distancing measures (yellow tape distancing people from the counter). I never went into the shop area at all.

Still, I was warned by everyone online about non-OEM bearings failing prematurely and that's more likely what happened here. If they repacked it I don't think the original brake'n'shake would have gone away (would still be loose; possibly missing a ball bearing or two).

Yep, my mechanic makes a point of showing me every replaced part and, if necessary, explains the failure. I would be wary of any mechanic who didn't offer to show the parts.

I don't think they'd make a habit of carrying dirty parts into their nice clean lobby but I'm sure they would've showed me if I had asked. We discussed the bearings at-length last year so they did explain the failure. They didn't try to explain why this one failed prematurely but I'm pretty sure I already know since I was warned online so many times about non-OEM bearings.

looks like they should have replaced the wheel flange with the bearing. maybe they just pressed in the new bearing? or did so badly and its not seated properly? so you should be able to look behind the wheel and see the new part. drive it before you pay them, if its not fixed tell them to screw off and take it somewhere else. cut your losses. write them bad reviews.

good lord, this is why I do all the work that's possible for me to do myself, and if i don't do it, it goes to a dealer that I trust and I know will stand behind their work.

My understanding is that this Corolla generation still does it the old-skool way instead of replacing the whole mount (hammered out; pressed in). I'm definitely not set up to do that myself though I would if replacement bearings were sold as a whole bolt-on assembly like most cars these days.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Just looking in on this . . . 150,000 miles -- 9-years . . Toyota lives up to its track-record and reputation.

I use a tire-reseller-repair-shop for my suspension and wheels, and another repair-shop for everything else. Never had this sort of misery, but check my thread on "The Little Repair-Shop of Horrors And The Mechanic From Hell". As I said there, you need to find an outfit that doesn't leave you with misgivings and waking-nightmare worries about being ripped off or improperly serviced.

My new repair-shop is a father-son partnership of 30 years in business. When I want something done, they keep telling me how I don't need to have it done. I wanted to strictly follow the owner and shop manuals' schedule for service and evaluation -- a 100,000 mile chart divided into 3,000-mile increments. Accordingly, I was overdue for new gear oil in front and rear differential and the motor-oil in the transfer case. I decided to do that myself. But the wheel-bearings were supposed to be re-packed with grease as well. When I offered the senior partner the job of doing it, he said "On that vehicle, no -- you don't need it. They're sealed. Nothing happens -- the grease keeps doing its job . . . . "

I may actually INSIST on his doing it when I take it in this fall to have their once-over complete inspection. He did this to me about my Dexron-III tranny fluid as well. It was overdue by about 20,000 miles. I showed him the splotch on a paper towel from the dipstick, and he says "No . . . we'll only want to check it next year . . . " I didn't tell him that I violated his recommendation not to use "chemicals" to swell seals in trannies and engines, or that using 1/3 the recommended amount of Blue Devil worked so well, I wanted to get that stuff outta there. He had told me how they flush trannies with an extraction tool, and I figured out how to use a 1/4" length of icemaker tubing from Home Depot with a $30 hand pump to do it myself. Guy saved me more money, except for the new quarts of Dexron. I made sure he got a Franklin of a tip for his tips.

 

[herm0016]

My understanding is that this Corolla generation still does it the old-skool way instead of replacing the whole mount (hammered out; pressed in). I'm definitely not set up to do that myself though I would if replacement bearings were sold as a whole bolt-on assembly like most cars these days.

indeed. and it should have come with a new wheel hub/flange with the splines to the axle. The bearing to press in, a circlip and the hub/flange

 

[CZroe]

Update!

TL;DR:
-Bearing noise has returned AGAIN. 3rd time I've had bad bearings on this Corolla in barely a year... and then there's the Tacoma.
-Could my recent flat tire cause premature bearing failure or is this just another case of non-OEM bearings doing what they do (failing)?
-Tires have otherwise been treated well.
-Is there anything else that can cause replacement bearings to repeatedly fail prematurely if it goes undiagnosed?
-Should I get someone else to confirm it's a bad bearing before I take it in for warranty service?

****
Yes, I also had bad bearings in a Toyota Tacoma that cost me near $800 in the same time period but I wasn't the one driving that vehicle and it has since been traded in. That's FOUR Toyota bearing jobs in one year. I must've offended the wheel bearing gods or something.
****

Anyway, I've had a dead TPMS battery/sensor and two slow leaks all summer. Leaks were so minor I only needed to put air in it every month and a half but I could see a staple right on the edge of the tread from one. I had free tire rotations and Road Hazard coverage from the same shop so I figured I'd get it all taken care of when I'm getting my next rotation. Ended up taking it in sooner than expected when I got a much more serious flat in a third tire. It wasn't so bad that I couldn't just inflate to sidewall pressure and make it to the shop before it got too low (~10psi drop), but it did catch me off guard with the TPMS light already indicating a dead battery (light flashes 60s then goes solid at every start). That means I first noticed that flat when the car started pulling left when braking. Thankfully I carry a portable air compressor.

So, patching required them to remove the tires which meant now was definitely the time to replace that dead TPMS sensor inside. Turns out that I had two dead TPMS modules (integrated battery/valve/sensor), so they replaced both, patched two flats, and replaced the tire with a staple on the very edge of the tread. A new tire seemed a bit excessive for such a manageable leak but they don't do plugs and it was supposedly too close to the sidewall to patch. Wasn't going to argue with a new tire for free.

I figured it was also time to go ahead and replace the radiator fan that I had discussed with them a couple months earlier. They told me the quote was still good so we decided to go ahead and do it when I dropped the car off for all the tire/TPMS work. When we first discussed it I made it clear that the fan was already diagnosed since it would turn on its own and the AC would work if I manually gave the fan a little nudge, and the guy I spoke with agreed. That's kind of important since I never asked them for a diagnosis and made it clear that was already done.

I checked it in for service with a different employee and she asked me if the car had overheated. I told her that it had overheated once, before I was aware of the issue and stopped letting the car idle. The thermostat seemed to be fine because it would open/close circulation to the radiator to maintain temperature as long as there was airflow. Even so, she said they always require a thermostat replacement if the vehicle overheated... something about the temperatures potentially damaging the thermostat. Whatever. Those are cheap and it sounds like a reasonable concern for the people who will be guaranteeing the cooling fan work, so I pre-authorized it.

When they called to notify me of the second TPMS sensor replacement and get authorization, they also told me that they confirmed the radiator cooling fan was bad. They had the part available but the tech to install it was already gone for the weekend. No problem. Not sure why they needed to tell me what I told them about the fan, but whatevs. I wasn't expecting same-day service with all that work, especially as busy as they appeared to be, but it was a Friday, they were nearly done with all the tire work, and I thought it would be nice if I could have the car back for the weekend. After all, I didn't even have to get the fan replaced yet and I did have work. They agreed to let me pick up the car and bring it back on Monday.

When I showed up to get the car the woman who checked me in quoted me a price for diagnosing the radiator. I was about to unload on her about how *I* told them that and never asked for a (re)diagnosis but she didn't skip a beat before saying she was taking it off since I was bringing the car back on Monday. Good. That's still some BS since I should still have the freedom to take it wherever I want or DIY since I did not authorize or request a diagnosis. The usual trick of charging for diagnosis when you don't get the service done should not apply to me. Didn't waste my breath with all that though since she was voluntarily taking it off my bill without me having to ask.

So, I started the car and the TPMS light was off. Great! Drove it home and parked it until I had to take it to work the next day only to get the exact same thing I was getting for months: TPMS light flashes for 60s then goes solid to indicate that it doesn't see one or more of the TPMS sensors. A quick inspection and I could distinctly see two new valve stems/caps, as expected. I understand that a third could have coincidentally gone dead within hours of picking the car up since they are all nearly a decade old, but I suspect that they replaced the wrong one after rotating my tires. Perhaps the TPMS light was off when I left the service station because I was within range of the old/discarded wireless sensor. At least one of my remaining sensors had been replaced with the entire wheel after an accident a few years earlier, so this had better be the last one going dead for some time.

When dropping off the car Monday for the new cooling fan I mentioned the TPMS light. When picking it back up I was pleasantly surprised to find another new TPMS sensor installed with no mention on my bill (three new valve stems/caps). Maybe they thought the same thing I did about having replaced the wrong one on Friday and didn't want to say anything. That seems to be supported by the woman checking me in, who tried to contradict me when I pointed out which tires had the new sensors until I reminded her that the tires were also rotated. Guess the tech back there could get mixed up as easily as she could.

So I got the car back just before Thanksgiving. A week ago, just after Thanksgiving, I noticed that the road noise sounded a bit louder than usual but insisted to my passenger that it wasn't the same sound as the bad bearings... yet. Another week later and now it's clear as day:
The droning propeller-plane noise from a bad wheel bearing is back for a third time in barely more than a year. Ffffffffffff...

The recent flat wouldn't suddenly destroy nearly-new bearings, right? I haven't hit any curbs or potholes and haven't been through mud or anything else to explain this. They've literally had the wheels off twice a week before the sound returned and I would expect them to notice if there was some physical damage to explain this. IMO, it's gotta be those darn non-OEM bearings. It's obviously causing them more trouble than it's worth to use non-OEM, since it's still under warranty.

The shop is a seemingly-successful successful Goodyear franchisee started by my brother's former coworker who left his IT career to pursue this. The rest of my family trusts them completely which is why I came here to see if my personal misgivings were justified (no one else around me will even tolerate this discussion). Main reason why I'm still dealing with them is warranty work for the bearings, Road Hazard policy with a past tire purchase, and free tire rotation for those same tires.

Guess I do have one more beef:
Those wiper blades they installed earlier this year are total garbage and literally worse when new than the used blades they replaced. The very first time I used them they were skipping/chattering all over my windshield and performing FAR worse than the premium Bosch Icons they replaced. To add insult to injury, Project Farm recently tested premium wiper blades and basically confirmed that I had the best ones available. These guys needlessly replaced them with this chattery garbage that doesn't work. I gave them a chance to break in or whatever but after many downpours I had to conclude that something else was wrong. Since then I tried cleaning, lubricating, WD-40, etc but nothing works. They just skip all over my window and leave water at any speed or wetness. Wish I knew the brand so I could stay away forever.

 

[bfun_x1]

You are the customer. When you go in, tell them what you want done, have them write up a service order with estimate, and make is clear THIS is only what you want done and that they must talk to you before deviating in any way from the service order.

BTW, a bad brake line can cause steering wheel shakes and pulling when braking as well. It can also destroy brake pads and rotors as well as calipers and wheel bearings. I have a 94 Chevy Silverado that is proof of that.

Steering wheel started pulling lightly to the left when braking. Within a month, this progressed to the point where the vehicle would shimmy and the steering wheel eventually began seesawing back and forth if you even lightly pushed the brakes and released the wheel while braking. You could literally smell the pads burning at times, and the rotors literally warped under the heat. Went through two sets of front brake pads, rotors, calipers, and a right front wheel bearing and still couldn't fix it. We even went so far as to swap the master brake cylinder - no dice.

In the end, after three months we finally figured it out - it was GM's fault. Due to a material design failure, the interior of my brake lines had deteriorated and were partially blocking up under pressure instead of properly transferring brake fluid. The pressure was backing up, causing the brake pads on one side to repeatedly grab and release while the other side had insufficient pressure to brake, then the situation would suddenly reverse to the other side. As a result, the vehicle would shimmy when braking, and the wheel seesawing back and forth was literally due to the brakes grabbing on one side, releasing, grabbing on other side, wash/spin/repeat as the brake pressure transferred back and forth.

That was a miserable three months - I actually ended up having to buy a car to drive to work because my truck was completely unsafe to drive. All because of a set of improperly designed brake lines.

I had a similar break line failure with my 2013 F150. The brake lines were breaking down, gumming up the break fluid, and causing the calipers to stick. I never noticed a loss of power or the steering wheel pulling, but there was a lot of dust. For about 6 months I was stumped trying to figure out why my gas millage was so bad. I replaced the lines and calipers and suddenly I got 2.8 MPG back.

 

[Torn Mind]

You're sure this is the bearing? A "howling wind" noise of sorts? Make sure they're installing the OEM or equivalent grade of parts and not the cheapo grade ones. Given what they did with your wipers, you're likely being shafted.

I would first make sure it isn't the rotor shield on the back.

The bearing is enclosed under the by the hub on the outside and the CV axle on the inside, therefore it is very hard for exterior dirt to get inside. There is also no packing or anything done. Everything is sealed and just pressed into position.

Eric O. of South Main Auto Repair has a fairly comprehensive video of the process.

Whole knuckle assemblies are sold, such as this: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=10865552&cc=1447615&jsn=1054

Also, it is pretty telling that they are focusing on the bearing and not the struts or stabilizer links in the front, both of which are likely shot at 150k. Don't replace the shocks in the near future, and you can expect the rest of the front suspension to get really worn later. I did it for my mom at around 150k with wrenches and a torch, but if your in a colder place than mine, the salt might cause worse corrosion.

I would check the rotors, make sure they're at least vented. I have a sense....that even so, you are not getting the quality that OEM, Advics, or AcDelco Professional would provide for 40-50 plus shipping. Advics is basically the company that makes Toyota OEM rotors and due to the old NUMMI arrangement GM and Toyota had for the Corolla, AcDelco Professional probably just repackages the OEM Toyota part as well.

Does your local municipality maintain its roads? Because bearings don't just go without a reason. https://www.moogparts.eu/blog/how-long-wheel-bearings-last.html#:~:text=The main reasons that a wheel bearing fails are:&text=Impact damage or poor road,is continuously under enormous pressure.

 

[Torn Mind]

Regarding brake fluid...if you had no problems before, you're not going to suddenly have shaking after. If the fluid and or job was not done with the proper precautions to make sure no air remains, the most you will notice is that the pedal feels spongier than before. The Toyota sauce is pretty durable even in neglected situations.


The shop is likely using a cheaper "stock" fluid. I would go no worse than a Castrol DOT4, which was formerly called their low moisture accumulation formula.

 

[CZroe]

You're sure this is the bearing? A "howling wind" noise of sorts? Make sure they're installing the OEM or equivalent grade of parts and not the cheapo grade ones. Given what they did with your wipers, you're likely being shafted.

I would first make sure it isn't the rotor shield on the back.

The bearing is enclosed under the by the hub on the outside and the CV axle on the inside, therefore it is very hard for exterior dirt to get inside. There is also no packing or anything done. Everything is sealed and just pressed into position.

Eric O. of South Main Auto Repair has a fairly comprehensive video of the process.

Whole knuckle assemblies are sold, such as this: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=10865552&cc=1447615&jsn=1054

Also, it is pretty telling that they are focusing on the bearing and not the struts or stabilizer links in the front, both of which are likely shot at 150k. Don't replace the shocks in the near future, and you can expect the rest of the front suspension to get really worn later. I did it for my mom at around 150k with wrenches and a torch, but if your in a colder place than mine, the salt might cause worse corrosion.

I would check the rotors, make sure they're at least vented. I have a sense....that even so, you are not getting the quality that OEM, Advics, or AcDelco Professional would provide for 40-50 plus shipping. Advics is basically the company that makes Toyota OEM rotors and due to the old NUMMI arrangement GM and Toyota had for the Corolla, AcDelco Professional probably just repackages the OEM Toyota part as well.

Does your local municipality maintain its roads? Because bearings don't just go without a reason. https://www.moogparts.eu/blog/how-long-wheel-bearings-last.html#:~:text=The main reasons that a wheel bearing fails are:&text=Impact damage or poor road,is continuously under enormous pressure.

Thanks. It's developed into the exact same droning propeller-plane sound that was verified to be bearings the last three times. I'll be jacking it up in the morning to see if I can identify which tire it is before I take it in. Since they recently replaced the rotors under warranty from damage caused by the first bearing job it would not surprise me if they used the cheapest they could get away with. If my hunch is right, it seems they are just digging their hole deeper and deeper with these crappy parts that they guarantee/warranty and end up having to repair over and over.

The roads are pretty good here. Mid-west Georgia but part of Atlanta's "Greater Metro Area" so we get street sweepers and pothole patchers where needed. Probably only had salt trucks out here twice in the last decade so near-zero corrosion from salt. The car is parked outdoors so the Volt can charge in the garage but it is a paved driveway and it has not been on a dirt road in probably more than a year... definitely no dirt roads since the last bearing job.

 

[Torn Mind]

Thanks. It's developed into the exact same droning propeller-plane sound that was verified to be bearings the last three times. I'll be jacking it up in the morning to see if I can identify which tire it is before I take it in. Since they recently replaced the rotors under warranty from damage caused by the first bearing job it would not surprise me if they used the cheapest they could get away with. If my hunch is right, it seems they are just digging their hole deeper and deeper with these crappy parts that they guarantee/warranty and end up having to repair over and over.

The roads are pretty good here. Mid-west Georgia but part of Atlanta's "Greater Metro Area" so we get street sweepers and pothole patchers where needed. Probably only had salt trucks out here twice in the last decade so near-zero corrosion from salt. The car is parked outdoors so the Volt can charge in the garage but it is a paved driveway and it has not been on a dirt road in probably more than a year... definitely no dirt roads since the last bearing job.

One potential cause may be improper over-torquing of the wheels. If they're just impact wrenching them back on without a care, the torque could be much more than the 80 ft-lb spec or so that Toyota specifies.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/5qovof/_/dd157ki

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/1va56i/_/ceq8226

There is a possibility the wheel hub is severely distorted and creating an abnormal load.

You have a much more pleasant winter environment than up here in MD and definitely not as bad as the ones Eric O has in NY has to deal with. As state before, my mom's 2007 Matrix passed the 150k mark a couple years back and the wheel bearings are something I have never given thought to since the car keeps on trucking. It's been driven partially in a county that charges high taxes but still has bumpy, poorly maintained roads(PeeGee).

Yep. There are two very contrasting reasons a part or good is warrantied. One is that the build quality is so good you don't go asking for a replacement. Such products are also usually more expensive compared to substitutes.
The other reason is that the build quality sucks but will break just after the warranty period or during it so the supplier can get more money from you replacing and/or servicing it.

A wheel bearing caught early usually doesn't cause much damage, probably with uneven tire wear to start with. It's with prolonged neglect that it will show significant damage.

I'll say that you're probably better off even just getting a used or junkyard knuckle assembly than continuing with "warranty" service.

Also, your car probably is due for a spark plug change at some point. Rather than stick with OEM, I would recommend Denso's Twin-tip Iridiums. They run better than the OEM stock ones.

Also, your driving style might be different from mine and my mom's, but the drum brakes on my mom's Matrix are still the original even though it is nearing 200k miles. Checked them at least 3 times over the course of the past 50k miles or so, but they still have enough material to not service them.

If your desperate, Scotty Kilmer is now in Clarksville, Tennessee.

 

[CZroe]

One potential cause may be improper over-torquing of the wheels. If they're just impact wrenching them back on without a care, the torque could be much more than the 80 ft-lb spec or so that Toyota specifies.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/5qovof/_/dd157ki

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/1va56i/_/ceq8226

There is a possibility the wheel hub is severely distorted and creating an abnormal load.

You have a much more pleasant winter environment than up here in MD and definitely not as bad as the ones Eric O has in NY has to deal with. As state before, my mom's 2007 Matrix passed the 150k mark a couple years back and the wheel bearings are something I have never given thought to since the car keeps on trucking. It's been driven partially in a county that charges high taxes but still has bumpy, poorly maintained roads(PeeGee).

Yep. There are two very contrasting reasons a part or good is warrantied. One is that the build quality is so good you don't go asking for a replacement. Such products are also usually more expensive compared to substitutes.
The other reason is that the build quality sucks but will break just after the warranty period or during it so the supplier can get more money from you replacing and/or servicing it.

A wheel bearing caught early usually doesn't cause much damage, probably with uneven tire wear to start with. It's with prolonged neglect that it will show significant damage.

I'll say that you're probably better off even just getting a used or junkyard knuckle assembly than continuing with "warranty" service.

Also, your car probably is due for a spark plug change at some point. Rather than stick with OEM, I would recommend Denso's Twin-tip Iridiums. They run better than the OEM stock ones.

Also, your driving style might be different from mine and my mom's, but the drum brakes on my mom's Matrix are still the original even though it is nearing 200k miles. Checked them at least 3 times over the course of the past 50k miles or so, but they still have enough material to not service them.

If your desperate, Scotty Kilmer is now in Clarksville, Tennessee.

Yeah, it's had the plugs changed, injectors cleaned, and all that when it was serviced in the spring. Don't know what plugs they used. It got the usual 10K interval service when I dropped it off for the tire/radiator work a couple weeks ago so it should be all caught up on the regular maintenance in addition to all the extra stuff they were recommemding at 150k (part of the reason that service was so expensive).

Speaking of Eric O, I saw that whole video about a year ago when I was curious what it would take to DIY and concluded it wasn't as easy for a Corolla as most cars where you replace a whole assembly. I watched a ton of Scotty's videos too but the man makes too much content! I subscribed for a couple years but he was flooding my subscription feed with a lot of clickbait covering topics he'd already covered, forcing me to unsubscribe earlier this year. I had no idea he left Texas!

 

[Torn Mind]

Yeah, the pressing is tedious. You can skip it with buying an entire knuckle+hub.

Sourcing a new or used whole knuckle+hub and replacing the entire thing is probably the only way you'll be free of this bearing ghost. Self-serve junkyards have the lowest price, but you'll need your own tools and time. Full-service used parts channels would be local suppliers or Ebay. Since your car has ABS, you'll have to make sure your assembly has that if you decide to source a used one.

Your particular generation of Toyota is no more than 11 years old, so there are plenty of used OEM parts that may be barely broken in mileage-wise, but the source car was totaled somewhere due to an accident.

Copper spark plugs last about 30k, so you don't have to check them right away. But given the shadiness of this shop, I definitely would check them within that frame just to make sure. Not too hard to do. You need a 10mm socket and a spark plug socket.

Scotty's Texas house was apparently eminent domain or the developer gave him an offer he couldn't refuse. That house is going to be demolished.

 

[CZroe]

OK, I jacked up each tire and gave them each a spin. Front tires do not spin freely. They stop between an eighth or a quarter of a turn after I spin and let go. I can't get them to wobble when I grab and shake but the left front does make a squeel sound when I turn it backwards. Gonna take it in.

 

[Torn Mind]

Well, if you must use this shop, I would source the parts from the OEM dealership, tell this shop to screw their warranty, install the OEM part properly for you free, and if crap breaks again, it's the end of this "relationship".

 

[CZroe]

Well, they called me back just before closing to tell me that I was right: another one of the front bearings had gone bad and they will replace it under warranty. Unfortunately, the guy also said that one of my rear bearings needs to be replaced.

Remember, I had just jacked it up and spun every tire this morning and the rears were spinning fine. Both of them. Unlike the front two I could give the rear tires a big push and get a few turns out of them where the front tires would stop spinning in less than a quarter of a turn. I assume it's because of disc brakes vs. drum brakes, but the only one with anything funny was the driver's side front wheel with the squeel when turned backwards. I figure the direction must be significant since they asked me which direction I was turning it when I heard the noise.

So I asked if they had to replace the rear in pairs and he said "no." Contrast that with last year when they told me I had to replace my front bearings in pairs. Guess rears are treated differently? I also asked about getting Toyota OEM bearings. He said that they had already upgraded me to a better grade OEM quality bearing when they replaced the last one and they would again, but they don't use actual Toyota parts. Even suggested it's possibly the same supplier for Toyota.

They want $390 for the rear bearings since that one isn't under warranty. Am I crazy for thinking that they made that up to cover their losses here and will void my warranty if I don't replace that one too?! With the service and repair a couple weeks ago we just spent over $800, and then there was my brother's blower fan that cost another $300 that we got done at the same time. The bill was several hundred when I went to them earlier this year too (new battery, injectors cleaned, spark plugs, and all that) and around $900 when I had the bearing job last year. The car seems to be reliable other than the bearings and that cooling fan so it should not be costing this much to maintain. Since I paid it off I've literally spent more on the regular maintenance each year than I did on the monthly payments before!