RINO - what is it and who isn't?

[Jhhnn]

Yeah...let's go all the way back to the good old days of liberalism...pro-slavery, pro-segregation, anti-civil rights, anti-woman sufferage and internment camps to boot. Yeah...let's get real about how the Democrats of today were as "liberal" as the Democrats were in the good ol' days.

Well, yeh, but that no longer applies, seeing as how southern Democrats turned Republican 30-40 years ago. You know, the party that best represents their values. Republicans sacrificed a lot of their own to make that marriage, and it's been downhill ever since.

And in those fearful, apprehensive & seemingly betrayed converts the most reactionary right wing billionaires found an audience & a following, led from the thinktanks & institutes of their realm, financed through hundreds of non-profit organizations. Heritage, for example, was founded 40 years ago. Guess who's running it now?

 

[cubby1223]

Not to mention all the things you ignored like Nixon creating OSHA and the EPA and moving for an Affordable Care Act like plan with modern Republicans treating all three like an anathema.

And our most recent Republican President Bush increased spending and expanded social programs.

Back in the early 70's there were several people pushing for healthcare reform. Democrats were pushing for a national universal plan, Nixon was pushing for a lesser plan, and the Republicans opposed both in support of an even more limited plan. Then the recession of the 70's hit and Ford vowed to veto any reform legislation.

I really don't see what you think you're proving by cherry-picking individuals and facts.

Republicans talk about subjects like OSHA & the EPA, they're more for limiting the powers they have assumed over the years, not cutting off those entities.

There is a big difference between rhetoric to get elected, rhetoric to oppose those in power, and what the representatives actually do when they come to hold power. Hell there were a lot of things Democrats strongly opposed during Bush's term, which they suddenly completely support now that Obama is in power. And there are a lot of things Republicans now oppose under Obama but supported under Bush.

 

[fskimospy]

And our most recent Republican President Bush increased spending and expanded social programs.

Back in the early 70's there were several people pushing for healthcare reform. Democrats were pushing for a national universal plan, Nixon was pushing for a lesser plan, and the Republicans opposed both in support of an even more limited plan. Then the recession of the 70's hit and Ford vowed to veto any reform legislation.

I really don't see what you think you're proving by cherry-picking individuals and facts.

Republicans talk about subjects like OSHA & the EPA, they're more for limiting the powers they have assumed over the years, not cutting off those entities.

There is a big difference between rhetoric to get elected, rhetoric to oppose those in power, and what the representatives actually do when they come to hold power. Hell there were a lot of things Democrats strongly opposed during Bush's term, which they suddenly completely support now that Obama is in power. And there are a lot of things Republicans now oppose under Obama but supported under Bush.

I'm doing the exact opposite of cherry picking facts. Nothing in my posts relies on Nixon or Eisenhower's actions, I was just using them to provide context. My post relies upon common space DW-NOMINATE scores and their dramatic rightward shift over the last 40 years.

 

[cubby1223]

I wanted to go through and find out some more info about Nixon, and it's pretty amazing what the consensus is on him.

Some liberal progressives across the internet regard him as one of the greatest presidents ever! While other liberal progressives regard Nixon as one of the evilest people, especially in regards to Vietnam, some even regard the creation of the EPA as a pure diversion so he could continue prolonging the Vietnam war to his political advantage. They denounce his "silent majority" and "southern strategy". And let's not forget Nixon was in charge when the protestors were shot dead at Kent State.

But when it's convenient, Nixon is the shining example of what a President should be... when the discussion is appropriate to cherry pick only certain aspects of his presidency.

 

[Jhhnn]

I wanted to go through and find out some more info about Nixon, and it's pretty amazing what the consensus is on him.

Some liberal progressives across the internet regard him as one of the greatest presidents ever! While other liberal progressives regard Nixon as one of the evilest people, especially in regards to Vietnam, some even regard the creation of the EPA as a pure diversion so he could continue prolonging the Vietnam war to his political advantage. They denounce his "silent majority" and "southern strategy". And let's not forget Nixon was in charge when the protestors were shot dead at Kent State.

But when it's convenient, Nixon is the shining example of what a President should be... when the discussion is appropriate to cherry pick only certain aspects of his presidency.

Please. Quote & link some progressive source where Nixon is portrayed as some shining example.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Well, yeh, but that no longer applies, seeing as how southern Democrats turned Republican 30-40 years ago. You know, the party that best represents their values. Republicans sacrificed a lot of their own to make that marriage, and it's been downhill ever since.

And in those fearful, apprehensive & seemingly betrayed converts the most reactionary right wing billionaires found an audience & a following, led from the thinktanks & institutes of their realm, financed through hundreds of non-profit organizations. Heritage, for example, was founded 40 years ago. Guess who's running it now?

So...you "explicitly look at only a subset of information and it's facts"? See how stupid your logic is? Probably not.

 

[Jhhnn]

So...you "explicitly look at only a subset of information and it's facts"? See how stupid your logic is? Probably not.

So you're desperate, right?

If you said that right wing looney tunes in the Republican were nothing new, you'd be right. If you said that they've been ascendant in the party for decades, you'd be right about that, too.

Part of that has been in the fostering of the Fundie Fringe, people who operate on Faith in the first place. That establishes patterns, ways of thinking that are easy to manipulate. Add a lot of pandering to fear, prejudice & self righteousness to define the message of today. In radicalizing their base, Repubs won more elections, so they've kept doing it so long that the inmates are now vying for control of the asylum, mostly using extortion. Who's leading them? Heritage, Cato, Club for Growth, Freedom Works and the rest.

On one hand, it's amusing watching the kings of sleaze & deception tearing their own party apart, but it would be nice to have relatively sane people leading a loyal opposition.

Fat chance, huh?

 

[fskimospy]

I wanted to go through and find out some more info about Nixon, and it's pretty amazing what the consensus is on him.

Some liberal progressives across the internet regard him as one of the greatest presidents ever! While other liberal progressives regard Nixon as one of the evilest people, especially in regards to Vietnam, some even regard the creation of the EPA as a pure diversion so he could continue prolonging the Vietnam war to his political advantage. They denounce his "silent majority" and "southern strategy". And let's not forget Nixon was in charge when the protestors were shot dead at Kent State.

But when it's convenient, Nixon is the shining example of what a President should be... when the discussion is appropriate to cherry pick only certain aspects of his presidency.

Right, so still no empirical analysis. This is the problem with politics.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Man, there is an impressive amount of ignorance of facts by cubby and DSF. Pretty impressive to have that high a level of denial of facts.

The GOP has moved so far right it is falling over sideways. But don't let reality get in the way of your beliefs.

LOL

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Man, there is an impressive amount of ignorance of facts by cubby and DSF. Pretty impressive to have that high a level of denial of facts.

The GOP has moved so far right it is falling over sideways. But don't let reality get in the way of your beliefs.

LOL

Where did I ever say that the GOP hasn't moved right? In addition to being a complete idiot, you appear to have some serious reading comprehension issues...seek help.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Where did I ever say that the GOP hasn't moved right? In addition to being a complete idiot, you appear to have some serious reading comprehension issues...seek help.

So, you claim the Democrats have moved way to the left without any proof of this, despite others showing data that totally disproves your lies. Hmmm.

Remember when Obama took office? He was such a far-left socialist, he went ahead and nationalized all those banks. Now that was left wing. Oh wait.....he didn't do that, he bailed them out. Ooops, not very liberal.

How about Obamacare? You know, the GOP plan from 20 years ago? The one that the GOP says is too liberal? So 20 years ago, the Democrats have moved to the RIGHT so much that they passed basically the old GOP proposal, while the GOP has moved to the RIGHT so much they think it's a horrible liberal law. Yup that is a total liberal shift there too...not.

Shall I add bipartisan support for the PATRIOT act? Support for a lot of wars? Those are really liberal positions too right? Want me to keep going?

So what drugs do you have to be on to ignore all of this and claim the Democrats have become a lot more liberal? Some serious stuff you must be taking.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So, you claim the Democrats have moved way to the left without any proof of this, despite others showing data that totally disproves your lies. Hmmm.

Remember when Obama took office? He was such a far-left socialist, he went ahead and nationalized all those banks. Now that was left wing. Oh wait.....he didn't do that, he bailed them out. Ooops, not very liberal.

How about Obamacare? You know, the GOP plan from 20 years ago? The one that the GOP says is too liberal? So 20 years ago, the Democrats have moved to the RIGHT so much that they passed basically the old GOP proposal, while the GOP has moved to the RIGHT so much they think it's a horrible liberal law. Yup that is a total liberal shift there too...not.

Shall I add bipartisan support for the PATRIOT act? Support for a lot of wars? Those are really liberal positions too right? Want me to keep going?

So what drugs do you have to be on to ignore all of this and claim the Democrats have become a lot more liberal? Some serious stuff you must be taking.

So...rather than acknowledge that you were wrong, you change your angle of attack. It's quite clear that reasonable discussion, or even remotely intelligent conversation with you, is impossible. Keep regurgitating your tired talking points....I'm sure it gives you great comfort.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

So...rather than acknowledge that you were wrong, you change your angle of attack. It's quite clear that reasonable discussion, or even remotely intelligent conversation with you, is impossible. Keep regurgitating your tired talking points....I'm sure it gives you great comfort.

So you admit you were wrong about the Dem's moving left....great

Would you care to refute my claims about how the Dem's have moved to the right in many cases? Like bank bailouts and Obamacare? Don't know how moving to the right to co-opt the GOP plan is in any way moving to the left.

And BTW, I'm not wrong. The GOP has moved hard to the right, and the Dems haven't moved to the left like you claim.

Those rose-colored glasses you wear must be REALLY REALLY dark for you to be this wrong.