Right to vote vs right to buy guns

[bfdd]

LOL

Well it's silly because it doesn't address the issue, you can't possibly address the issue. The issue goes further back than any one of us, before our daddies, before our grandmothers, way way way back. Unless someone has a time machine, trying to ban/regulate something out of existence isn't the way. What should be done is increased awareness and education. This would benefit us in enormous ways, one being a highly aware and at least somewhat proficient populous requiring much less of a standing military force on the Federal level. That would probably piss off some DoD comrades though.

 

[schneiderguy]

And yet a more germane comparison, Maine vs. Louisiana, would indicate gun control laws play less of a role overall. Both states rank well for gun owners, are close in population (compared to Maine vs. Cali) yet Maine is the safest state in the nation, and Louisiana is the least.

This comparison obviously doesn't fulfill an op to bash CA, but I think it indicates you are correct when you bring up culture here.

The amount of "ethnic diversity" a country/state has correlates much more strongly with the violent crime rate than firearms laws.

 

[cubby1223]

I have yet to get an answer for this so starting new thread.

Republicans in many states are passing laws making it harder for people to vote. But when suggestions are raised for tightening up the rules for buying guns they are thoroughly rejected.

Forcing an elderly poor woman to travel over 80 miles and pay money for the documents to obtain the “free” government ID is treated as no big deal. Requirements such as limiting rounds of ammo, assault weapons, maybe psychological screenings so crazy people can’t get guns legally is called an infringement on rights.

Some of these same people have no problem with allowing concealed to carry ID ok for voting but at the same time not allow student IDs.

So what’s the rationale behind this? Voting restrictions yes, gun purchase restrictions, no?

The troll threads are out in full force this week.

The latest polls for Obama against Romney not looking so good for you guys or what?

 

[AstroManLuca]

The troll threads are out in full force this week.

The latest polls for Obama against Romney not looking so good for you guys or what?

 

[kage69]

The amount of "ethnic diversity" a country/state has correlates much more strongly with the violent crime rate than firearms laws.

"Culture" not PC enough for you? Ah well, glad you agree.

 

[cubby1223]

its real purpose is only to suppress the elderly vote that tends to vote democratic.

Wrong. Elderly vote tends to vote Republican

Two quick google search links
http://blairrockefellerpoll.uark.edu/5292.php
http://usliberals.about.com/od/Election2012Factors/a/Senior-Citizen-Population-By-State.htm

I mean, it's pretty well established you just make up whatever suits your preconceived "opinion", but come on, now you're just making it too easy

 

[HomerJS]

Dade county, FL

Cook county, IL

Lake county, IN

There three good examples of systemic election fraud.

86 out 300 million is not widespread voter fraud. There was more fraud comitted by Republicans counting ballot numbers and illegally removing people from the roles in Florida 2000 then all the "dead people voting" in the last 20 years.

 

[Atreus21]

OH no--but Switzerland is a commie socialist welfare state with massive government subsidies and excessively high taxes!

We can't possibly handle the cost of social programs that promote free education, free healthcare and personal development, if that's what it takes to make wide spread gun ownership safe! No....we can't adopt commie principles!

In other words: try another comparison....one that is actually apt.

Point = ya missed it.

 

[Atreus21]

Actually that's not necessarily true. America certainly owns the most guns per capita by a country mile, and although Switzerland has their famous militia provisions that's not really enough to say that they have a higher percentage of the population that owns guns.

Regardless, you missed my point. In Japan gun control is draconian. In Japan the gun homicide rate is effectively zero. Even when you factor in Japan's overall lower crime rates, the gun homicide rate still remains basically zero. This is not a coincidence.

It does not mean that everyone should ban guns. It does not mean that the Japanese approach would work in America It means that when people say gun control doesn't work at controlling gun crime they are missing a powerful counterexample. I'm not sure why pro-gun people are so paranoid about their position that they cannot accept there could be places in which gun control works.

I'm a 2nd amendment supporter myself even though I would never own a gun. I'm not sure why people accepting contrary evidence is so hard.

Okay. Mexico, Russia, Brazil. Three countries with stronger gun control laws than we have, and with higher murder rates.

 

[fskimospy]

Okay. Mexico, Russia, Brazil. Three countries with stronger gun control laws than we have, and with higher murder rates.

Sure. Not sure how that addresses my point.

 

[Atreus21]

Sure. Not sure how that addresses my point.

There's a term in statistics (you'll know it better than I will) for a variable that exerts a strong influence on an outcome. I can't remember what it's called.

Gun control laws seem not to fit this definition.

 

[fskimospy]

There's a term in statistics (you'll know it better than I will) for a variable that exerts a strong influence on an outcome. I can't remember what it's called.

Gun control laws seem not to fit this definition.

I mean usually we would talk about the relationship between two variables being statistically significant. I'm really not sure how you would create an experiment to measure that between countries however, considering the relatively small sample sizes, the wild variation in actual legal frameworks, etc.

I think that all you need for this is a common sense sniff test. Do you think that Japan would have more than 11 gun homicides per year if they repealed all gun ownership laws tomorrow? Seems quite likely to me that they would. Same with the UK. It doesn't mean that their approach works for everyone, nor does it mean that gun legislation is the sole reason for it. I for one would never want to see Japan's approach tried here as it relies on vastly greater police powers than we have here. That doesn't mean it doesn't work though.

 

[xj0hnx]

Wrong. Elderly vote tends to vote Republican

Two quick google search links
http://blairrockefellerpoll.uark.edu/5292.php
http://usliberals.about.com/od/Election2012Factors/a/Senior-Citizen-Population-By-State.htm

I mean, it's pretty well established you just make up whatever suits your preconceived "opinion", but come on, now you're just making it too easy

It is kind of funny that they go on and on about baby boomers, and rascal scooters, then try to claim the older generations because it makes a good argument against voter ID.

 

[Atreus21]

I mean usually we would talk about the relationship between two variables being statistically significant. I'm really not sure how you would create an experiment to measure that between countries however, considering the relatively small sample sizes, the wild variation in actual legal frameworks, etc.

I think that all you need for this is a common sense sniff test. Do you think that Japan would have more than 11 gun homicides per year if they repealed all gun ownership laws tomorrow? Seems quite likely to me that they would. Same with the UK. It doesn't mean that their approach works for everyone, nor does it mean that gun legislation is the sole reason for it. I for one would never want to see Japan's approach tried here as it relies on vastly greater police powers than we have here. That doesn't mean it doesn't work though.

Japan is a very strange place. I'd be willing to bet they had 11 homicides by gun violence and 15,749 homicides by strangulation with womens' dirty underwear.