Right to vote vs right to buy guns

[HomerJS]

I have yet to get an answer for this so starting new thread.

Republicans in many states are passing laws making it harder for people to vote. But when suggestions are raised for tightening up the rules for buying guns they are thoroughly rejected.

Forcing an elderly poor woman to travel over 80 miles and pay money for the documents to obtain the “free” government ID is treated as no big deal. Requirements such as limiting rounds of ammo, assault weapons, maybe psychological screenings so crazy people can’t get guns legally is called an infringement on rights.

Some of these same people have no problem with allowing concealed to carry ID ok for voting but at the same time not allow student IDs.

So what’s the rationale behind this? Voting restrictions yes, gun purchase restrictions, no?

 

[fskimospy]

Well for one thing the right to vote is not a right under the Constitution the same way the right to bear arms is.

 

[techs]

Well, I certainly think we should have a waiting period before you can vote.

Too soon?

 

[a777pilot]

I'll wait to opine till the 10th Amendment is brought forth by Liberals.

LOL!

 

[schneiderguy]

You forgot to mention the restrictions on gun purchases that are already in place:

- You have to show ID to prove that you're a citizen of the US
- You undergo a background check to make sure you're not a felon, mentally disturbed, etc

Democrats would be screaming bloody murder if you had to do those to vote.

 

[bfdd]

You forgot to mention the restrictions on gun purchases that are already in place:

- You have to show ID to prove that you're a citizen of the US
- You undergo a background check to make sure you're not a felon, mentally disturbed, etc

Democrats would be screaming bloody murder if you had to do those to vote.

lol truth, people act like there's no gun control at all. then you bring some up and they go "well there should be more" and basically what they mean is "nothing bad should exist" to them I say well time machines don't exist.

 

[Jaskalas]

The consequences of elections are far more dangerous, and you don't even want them to show ID to prevent fraud.

 

[a777pilot]

If you want to see what we would be like with stricter gun control laws? Look south.

 

[HomerJS]

You forgot to mention the restrictions on gun purchases that are already in place:

- You have to show ID to prove that you're a citizen of the US
- You undergo a background check to make sure you're not a felon, mentally disturbed, etc

Democrats would be screaming bloody murder if you had to do those to vote.

Florida is already removing felons from the voter roles. Currently we only do criminal background checks. We don't do psyc screenings.

 

[fskimospy]

You forgot to mention the restrictions on gun purchases that are already in place:

- You have to show ID to prove that you're a citizen of the US
- You undergo a background check to make sure you're not a felon, mentally disturbed, etc

Democrats would be screaming bloody murder if you had to do those to vote.

I guess they will just have to vote at voting shows.

 

[fskimospy]

If you want to see what we would be like with stricter gun control laws? Look south.

Or look west to Japan.

 

[HomerJS]

Well for one thing the right to vote is not a right under the Constitution the same way the right to bear arms is.

We already allow resonable restrictions to constitutional rights.

White the right to vote isn't strictly constitutional it is just a precious as the right to bear arms since citizen votes directly effect any changes to rights.

 

[schneiderguy]

Florida is already removing felons from the voter roles. Currently we only do criminal background checks. We don't do psyc screenings.

Would you agree with a law that says you have to undergo psychological screening to vote?

Crazy people electing Hitler Jr. are probably more dangerous than a crazy person buying a gun.

 

[bfdd]

Or look west to Japan.

lol no and in that regard, lol @ no to the south as well.

 

[Lemon law]

Since I have my ID, I have the option of freely voting along with the right to not vote. I can also freely buy guns or choose not to waste money on the principle of diminishing marginal utility.

Come Nov 2012, I plan on voting, but have no plans to buy guns.

As for voter ID laws, I hope court challenges will require States to travel to the homes of transportation challenged voters so they too can have equal access to the right to vote.

 

[a777pilot]

Or look west to Japan.

If we were as isolated and as homogeneous as Japan we would be way different too. Besides, I lived over there for many years and there is gun violence. It's just that only the criminals have the guns.

If you think the Japanese are a non-violent people I encourage you to read "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang. Or talk to any POW of the the Japs. I have.

 

[a777pilot]

lol no and in that regard, lol @ no to the south as well.

Really? There have been over 50,000 killed in the drug gang wars in mexico. The government has deemed the common citizen is not worth protecting and are on their own with no way to protect themselves or their families.

 

[fskimospy]

If we were as isolated and as homogeneous as Japan we would be way different too. Besides, I lived over there for many years and there is gun violence. It's just that only the criminals have the guns.

If you think the Japanese are a non-violent people I encourage you to read "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang. Or talk to any POW of the the Japs. I have.

I don't think the Japanese are non-violent people at all, in fact that helps my point even more. They may be violent, but not with guns these days. Lets look at the numbers, shall we?

Population of the US in 2008: 304,000,000
Population of Japan in 2008: 128,000,000

Gun deaths in the United States 2008: ~30,000.
Gun deaths in Japan 2008: 11

 

[a777pilot]

Since I have my ID, I have the option of freely voting along with the right to not vote. I can also freely buy guns or choose not to waste money on the principle of diminishing marginal utility.

Come Nov 2012, I plan on voting, but have no plans to buy guns.

As for voter ID laws, I hope court challenges will require States to travel to the homes of transportation challenged voters so they too can have equal access to the right to vote.

What did you just say????

 

[PokerGuy]

You forgot to mention the restrictions on gun purchases that are already in place:

- You have to show ID to prove that you're a citizen of the US
- You undergo a background check to make sure you're not a felon, mentally disturbed, etc

Gasp! Someone start a lawsuit, stat! Clearly this is a violation of our rights! How could they demand ID for something that is a fundamental right? This is just gun ownership suppression, pure and simple!

 

[Anarchist420]

Buying a firearm, from someone who is willing to sell to you, with your own money or with money from someone who gave it to you is a right, voting (as well as a monarchy) is a privilege.

So let's all get it straight... voting is not a fucking right. It's not a right because if no one voted and if there was no monarchy, then we wouldn't lose our rights because we weren't subject to a ruler or a body of rulers.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I don't think the Japanese are non-violent people at all, in fact that helps my point even more. They may be violent, but not with guns these days. Lets look at the numbers, shall we?

Population of the US in 2008: 304,000,000
Population of Japan in 2008: 128,000,000

Gun deaths in the United States 2008: ~30,000.
Gun deaths in Japan 2008: 11

The stats don't tell the entire picture. Now go take a look at their culture and views toward law enforcement, laws and submissiveness (or some would say honor bound duty) toward obeying authority figures in general compared to the average American. Then observe their unified national and racial/societal identity compared to the average American. In other words half the shit we do as teenagers or as young adults would never be tolerated in Japan and would promptly land someone in jail or end up with someone getting beat down by the cops and no one would make a huge deal about it or riot over it. In addition foreign immigrants (Which they tightly control and forget about being an illegal in Japan cuzz that shit wont ever fly in Japan.) are never truly accepted as being truly "Japanese" and thus their nation has always remained purely Japanese culturally even when they adopt outside trends which are often changed to suit and appeal to the average Japanese.


Edit: However if you want to throw out any attempts to bring up racial demographics, culture, etc then why not do a comparison closer to home between states like Vermont or Maine versus California along with their gun laws and call it a day? Oh that's right because then the stats would paint an entirely different picture and would in fact present conflicting results (in some stats homicide by knife are dominate stat despite lax gun laws) in many cases solely based on stats alone and they would not provide enough details to make a solid conclusion.


2004 gun violence stats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

California - Homicide stats: 6.67 per 100,000 - Gun related homicides 4.82 per 100,000

Maine - Homicide stats: 1.37 per 100,000 - Gun related homicides 0.72 per 100,000

 

[fskimospy]

The stats don't tell the entire picture. Now go take a look at their culture and views toward law enforcement, laws and submissiveness toward authority figures in general compared to the average American along with the unified national and racial identity.

I wasn't saying anything about whether or not it told the whole picture. The data is extremely clear on one aspect however: gun control laws in Japan are very strict, and there are basically zero homicides that take place each year with guns.

Japan's overall crime rate is much lower than the US's, but even when taking that into account the use of guns is so low as to be effectively zero.

 

[HomerJS]

Would you agree with a law that says you have to undergo psychological screening to vote?

Crazy people electing Hitler Jr. are probably more dangerous than a crazy person buying a gun.

I would treat selling a weapon when used as intended kills people a little differently. We already allow stupid people to vote, i.e West Va.

I have no problem with voter ID if the forms of ID are readily accessable across the political spectrum, like utility bills. Ever wonder why no proposed restrictions on absentee ballots?

Laws for identifying voters needs to be done at the nation level. Too many southern states have been guilty of shenanigans in the past.

 

[werepossum]

I would treat selling a weapon when used as intended kills people a little differently. We already allow stupid people to vote, i.e West Va.

I have no problem with voter ID if the forms of ID are readily accessable across the political spectrum, like utility bills. Ever wonder why no proposed restrictions on absentee ballots?

Laws for identifying voters needs to be done at the nation level. Too many southern states have been guilty of shenanigans in the past.

It wasn't West Virginians who were petitioning courts to overturn an election because they were quite literally too stupid to read a ballot . . .