Right to free speech? Sure as long as you don't dis obamacare

[rudder]

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12137

So all the insurance companies are preparing their paperwork for state regulators. The are explaining rate increases to these regulators. They are not just saying that they "think" obamacare will cost more.. they are giving specific examples and revealing that publicly.

So the hard hand of DHHS comes down flat out threatening a private industry. basically saying be quiet or you won't be on the medical exchange in a few years. Just because the insurance companies do not agree with Sebelius' contention that rates will only be afect by 1 or 2%. The reality is obamacare is removing lifetime limits, making insures cover "children" till they are 26, etc. etc... this stuff will cost more money.

yes I know you all have your opinions about the evil healthcare insurance industry... but will you be outraged when the obama administration or future administrations for that matter set out to squash industries that do not tow the government line?

 

[rudder]

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/obamacares-threat-to-free-speech/

 

[Fear No Evil]

If Dear Leader says a Healthcare company is bad, I believe him.

 

[rudder]

The obama white house paid $18,000 of taxpayer money to pay someone to filter through news stories to see which ones were pro obama administration and which were anti obama administration regards to the BP spill. I sure would like to get the contract to rate the news stories about this.

 

[zsdersw]

yes I know you all have your opinions about the evil healthcare insurance industry...

... just as "you all" have your opinions about the evil Obama and/or Obamacare.

Is either the healthcare insurance industry or Obama and Obamacare "evil"? Not really.

 

[routan]

i still dont understand why people are against "obamacare"? Extending Medical Services to millions should be a positive thing? I dont mind paying a little bit extra if it helps the populace as a whole

 

[classy]

Wasted thread and same rhetoric as ever. Same old tired, regurgitated nonsense. The rates of increase are nothing new with health insurance companies. But now they just want to blame the healthcare legislation for it. I don't like all of the healthcare legislation but it is more good than bad. But these insurance companies have been raising rates regardless, they are just using a different scape goat.

 

[rudder]

i still dont understand why people are against "obamacare"? Extending Medical Services to millions should be a positive thing? I dont mind paying a little bit extra if it helps the populace as a whole

Yeh people like you who don't mind paying a bit extra have probably filed for earned income credit on their tax returns... and have no desire to go spend 10+ years to become a doctor only to earn a pittance because that is all the government can pay.

First off I don't want this thread to be about the merits of obamacare. Yes providing health care to millions should be a positive thing. Nothing good will come of a more bloated government program that will end up consuming a majority of the federal budget. The facts are out there as are the discussions in other threads about that.

This is about the federal government abusing is powers and about obama granting some of these secretaries of various departments more power than they need.

The insurance companies average increases are in line with what the DHHS initially said anyway.

 

[rudder]

Wasted thread and same rhetoric as ever. Same old tired, regurgitated nonsense. The rates of increase are nothing new with health insurance companies. But now they just want to blame the healthcare legislation for it. I don't like all of the healthcare legislation but it is more good than bad. But these insurance companies have been raising rates regardless, they are just using a different scape goat.

http://www.ctnow.com/health/hc-health-insurance-rate-hike-0914-20100914,0,5611833.story

obamacare is forcing insurance companies to remove annual caps among other things. they either raise rates because on this mandate or they go out of business. Why is this unclear to you?

 

[routan]

Yeh people like you who don't mind paying a bit extra have probably filed for earned income credit on their tax returns... and have no desire to go spend 10+ years to become a doctor only to earn a pittance because that is all the government can pay.

First off I don't want this thread to be about the merits of obamacare. Yes providing health care to millions should be a positive thing. Nothing good will come of a more bloated government program that will end up consuming a majority of the federal budget. The facts are out there as are the discussions in other threads about that.

This is about the federal government abusing is powers and about obama granting some of these secretaries of various departments more power than they need.

The insurance companies average increases are in line with what the DHHS initially said anyway.

First off, making stupid judgments about me is stupid. I pay crap-load in taxes, and do not file for EIC. Secondly, I was accepted into Med School, but didnt follow through because I wanted to make money, lots of it. Going into the profession with the intent of making money is one of the things wrong with our medical system. I did not want to contribute to that. So now I make tons of money in another industry

Abuse of power is all relative. Let the government abuse some power to do good for the majoirty.

 

[EXman]

Does this shock anyone that a politician from Chicago strong arms a business into submission or he'll come back with some muscle and bust the joint up?

Obama Business as usual. Thin skin and strong arming.

 

[jackschmittusa]

rudder

Claiming that the government saying that no BS and false statements are acceptable = denying freedom of speech is retarded. Do you have mental health coverage in your plan? Use it.

 

[rudder]

First off, making stupid judgments about me is stupid. I pay crap-load in taxes, and do not file for EIC. Secondly, I was accepted into Med School, but didnt follow through because I wanted to make money, lots of it. Going into the profession with the intent of making money is one of the things wrong with our medical system. I did not want to contribute to that. So now I make tons of money in another industry

Abuse of power is all relative. Let the government abuse some power to do good for the majoirty.

I like that last line... sieg heil! I guess abuse of power is okay until everyone is forced into the majority thinking.

Anyway, I did not mean to insinuate that a majority of people going into the medical profession are solely in it for the money. It is expensive to get that M.D. next to your name and there is a lot of potential liability in practicing medicine. Doctors would like to be compensated for their knowledge and skills... especially to pay off massive student loans. obamacare is not economically feasible. Either taxes will be raised or services cut. Doctors grumble now about the reimbursements they get from medicare... what makes you think obamacare will be any different? This has already been discussed many times over.

Oh and thank you for earning lots of money. I choose not to. I can just have a piece of your pie.

 

[rudder]

rudder

Claiming that the government saying that no BS and false statements are acceptable = denying freedom of speech is retarded. Do you have mental health coverage in your plan? Use it.

First off... free speech is what it is. Secondly, where is the BS and false statements? Rates will rise simply because of more people using the system, new technologies to pay for etc, etc. How is it BS to say part of that rate increase is because obamacare mandates that insurance companies not cap annual or lifetime payments?

The Department of Health and Human Services estimated that obamacares mandates will increase premiums by 7% or more. Again where is the BS?

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/...icize-obamacare-may-get-locked-out-of-system/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703597204575483900330728436.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-obamacare-20100913,0,7734523.story


Dear Ms. Ignagni:

It has come to my attention that several health insurer carriers are sending letters to their enrollees falsely blaming premium increases for 2011 on the patient protections in the Affordable Care Act. I urge you to inform your members that there will be zero tolerance for this type of misinformation and unjustified rate increases.

Sincerely,

Kathleen Sebelius


You are the one with the disconnect to reality.

 

[CPA]

i still dont understand why people are against "obamacare"? Extending Medical Services to millions should be a positive thing? I dont mind paying a little bit extra if it helps the populace as a whole

Because it's not my role to take care of anyone but me and my immediate family. If more Americans believed and acted as if it were their responsibility to care for themselves, not just by having health insurance, but being active, eating better, taking maintenance precautions, you wouldn't have so many people needing extended medical services.

preemptive response to moonie: yes, I hate myself

 

[routan]

I like that last line... sieg heil! I guess abuse of power is okay until everyone is forced into the majority thinking.

Anyway, I did not mean to insinuate that a majority of people going into the medical profession are solely in it for the money. It is expensive to get that M.D. next to your name and there is a lot of potential liability in practicing medicine. Doctors would like to be compensated for their knowledge and skills... especially to pay off massive student loans. obamacare is not economically feasible. Either taxes will be raised or services cut. Doctors grumble now about the reimbursements they get from medicare... what makes you think obamacare will be any different? This has already been discussed many times over.

Oh and thank you for earning lots of money. I choose not to. I can just have a piece of your pie.

rudder, sounds good about the medical profession. The government ALWAYS abuses its powers. Senators/congressmen working x% of the year, raking in thousands through "expense" account and lobby money, list can go on and on.
I was trying to suggest that if a certain law can serve to assist millions of needy people, even though it can bring with it the possibility of abuse of power, I can live with it. At least its better than abuse of power without any benefits at all for the populace.

 

[routan]

Because it's not my role to take care of anyone but me and my immediate family. If more Americans believed and acted as if it were their responsibility to care for themselves, not just by having health insurance, but being active, eating better, taking maintenance precautions, you wouldn't have so many people needing extended medical services.

preemptive response to moonie: yes, I hate myself

fair enough, but then you should ALSO be complaining about Social Security and Medicare. The next generation of Americans WILL be paying for your medical needs as well as the needs of your immediate family.

Either your point of view should hold throughout, or its not a correct opinion.

 

[shira]

http://www.ctnow.com/health/hc-health-insurance-rate-hike-0914-20100914,0,5611833.story

obamacare is forcing insurance companies to remove annual caps among other things. they either raise rates because on this mandate or they go out of business. Why is this unclear to you?

You're an ignorant fool. Government imposes all sorts of standards on products offered to the public by private companies. Cars must have a third, central tail-light, seat belts, and driver-side airbags. Eggs must not be contaminated with Salmonella. Baby strollers must not be constructed of highly combustible materials. And on and on and on.

Complying with government-imposed standards can cause the price of products to increase. But - hopefully - the benefits accrued outweigh the extra costs. In the case of lifetime caps, there are numerous examples where families are financially ruined because the cost of treating a serious disease exceeds the lifetime cap imposed by the policy.

Think that means the insured have made a poor choice of insurance? Well, guess what? Most group policies impose such limits. And chances are that if you're covered by employer-provided insurance, you're subject to such caps, too. Who don't all you right-wing extremists on this forum who crow about "personal responsibility" and who are covered by capped group polices tell us how you've taken "personal responsibility" and obtained a supplemental policy that will cover any costs that exceeds the cap. Come us, flood us with all of your examples of personal responsibility.

You and you family are just a serious illness away from bankruptcy, even if you THINK you have good insurance. So, the change to the no-caps rule will prevent such tragedies. I think it will be a definite change for the better.

 

[zsdersw]

Government imposes all sorts of standards on products offered to the public by private companies. Cars must have a third, central tail-light, seat belts, and driver-side airbags. Eggs must not be contaminated with Salmonella. Baby strollers must not be constructed of highly combustible materials. And on and on and on.

All of those are examples of the nanny state. The nanny state should not exist.

 

[EagleKeeper]

i still dont understand why people are against "obamacare"? Extending Medical Services to millions should be a positive thing? I dont mind paying a little bit extra if it helps the populace as a whole

It is one thing to extend coverage to others.

It is another thing to penalize those that already have coverage.

Covering more people is not going to drive the costs down - those people were not paying initially.

Unless the costs of medicine can come down, there is no cost savings coming from this package (as what promised).

The cost of medicine - which drives insurance costs, is based on salary, equipment, overhead. Overhead and equipment is probably the highest percentage. Equipment is due to the need for having the best at any cost - knowing that the patient and system will justify the cost. Overhead is driven by similar factors as equipment. Drug costs are not able to be shopped for, liability insurance is high due to the costs of lawsuits and because of the fear of liability, excessive costs are created for a CYA.


A brother has the "Cadillac" coverage policy through his employer.

• In 2011, that policy cost is going up 15% to him, 25% to the employer.
• The 10% employer's cost increase is due to goverment tax on the fact that they take care of their employees. ie providing Cadillac plans.
• The 10% of both costs is due to the insurance companies having to expand coverage based on the Obamacare mandate.
• Last year the insurance costs went up 5%.

 

[BoberFett]

Wasted thread and same rhetoric as ever. Same old tired, regurgitated nonsense. The rates of increase are nothing new with health insurance companies. But now they just want to blame the healthcare legislation for it. I don't like all of the healthcare legislation but it is more good than bad. But these insurance companies have been raising rates regardless, they are just using a different scape goat.

The cost of health care per capita has doubled in the US in the past decade. Clearly if the insurance companies are raising premiums for no reason, then they should have a roughly 50% profit ratio, correct?


Back to the OP, this is the kind of disgusting behavior I'd expect from Obamaland. When the facts don't fit the claims, ignore the facts.

 

[Vette73]

Wasted thread and same rhetoric as ever. Same old tired, regurgitated nonsense. The rates of increase are nothing new with health insurance companies. But now they just want to blame the healthcare legislation for it. I don't like all of the healthcare legislation but it is more good than bad. But these insurance companies have been raising rates regardless, they are just using a different scape goat.

/Thread

 

[rudder]

You're an ignorant fool. Government imposes all sorts of standards on products offered to the public by private companies. Cars must have a third, central tail-light, seat belts, and driver-side airbags. Eggs must not be contaminated with Salmonella. Baby strollers must not be constructed of highly combustible materials. And on and on and on.

Complying with government-imposed standards can cause the price of products to increase. But - hopefully - the benefits accrued outweigh the extra costs. In the case of lifetime caps, there are numerous examples where families are financially ruined because the cost of treating a serious disease exceeds the lifetime cap imposed by the policy.

Think that means the insured have made a poor choice of insurance? Well, guess what? Most group policies impose such limits. And chances are that if you're covered by employer-provided insurance, you're subject to such caps, too. Who don't all you right-wing extremists on this forum who crow about "personal responsibility" and who are covered by capped group polices tell us how you've taken "personal responsibility" and obtained a supplemental policy that will cover any costs that exceeds the cap. Come us, flood us with all of your examples of personal responsibility.

You and you family are just a serious illness away from bankruptcy, even if you THINK you have good insurance. So, the change to the no-caps rule will prevent such tragedies. I think it will be a definite change for the better.

Let's say a car company has to put another brake light in a car, which adds to the production cost. They issue a press release saying next year's model will be $100 more because of these mandates... should the government slap them down and threaten them because of that disclosure?

Here is what the thread is about (please read S L O W). obamacare mandates will cost more. Health insurance companies submit increase requests to state regulators. Insurance companies go on record saying a percentage of the increase is caused by obamacare. DHHS says that this is misinformation and say they will watch and punish companies that say this stuff. Even though the DHHS came out with the same assessment albeit at a slightly lower (7% vs 9%) rate. I cannot make this any clearer.

save your obama ass licking for another thread and focus on the intent of this thread please. Or better yet, go find a thread that discusses the merits (or extreme lack thereof) of obamacare.

You should really work on holding your emotions in check. If not, you end up calling people ignorant fools and in the process reveal your own ignorance.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Wasted thread and same rhetoric as ever. Same old tired, regurgitated nonsense. The rates of increase are nothing new with health insurance companies. But now they just want to blame the healthcare legislation for it. I don't like all of the healthcare legislation but it is more good than bad. But these insurance companies have been raising rates regardless, they are just using a different scape goat.

What about the taxes being imposed on the employer/employee of the Cadillac plans.

And the insurance companies are also being hit with fees.

Both are mandated by Obama Care and independant of normal rate increases

 

[jackschmittusa]

rudder

The government said they can't lie and falsely advertise that rates are going up citing fictitious reasons. Nowhere did I see that they can't cite specific, accurate cost increases.

Your "suppression of free speech issue" is smoke and mirrors.