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Rig upgrade to support HD video editting

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petesamprs

Senior member
Hi folks,
Just picked up a new a hard-drive HD camcorder (Canon HG10) which uses the AVCHD codec and therefore requires a powerful computer to edit the footage.

I currently have the computer in my sig below which I built about 2 years ago, and I'm looking for suggestions on the easiest way to upgrade it for this purpose.

My limitation is clearly a processor one, so I really only want to upgrade that and hold on to everything else I can since it's still in good shape. I suspect I need a new mobo and RAM though if I get a new processor.

Can anyone recommend a good upgrade path given what I already have and my objectives? Also, will I need to reinstall windows and/or reformat my HD with the new mobo/processor?
 
With 160 gigs, the limitation for your current machine is actually disc space.

It doesn't look like your mobo has much more headroom for the processor...you could upgrade it, perhaps overclocking an Opteron 180, but best bang for the buck for your purposes would be another 500 gigs instead.
 
...and yeah, once Windows sees a new proc, you'll likely need to rebuild. That reactivation thingy is hit-n-miss.
 
Thanks slug. I forgot to mention I do have an external HDD as well where I store footage, so that is not an issue.

I agree my mobo would probably need to be upgraded with the cpu. I'm looking to go relatively high end on the cpu, like intel dual/quad core. Which of these high end Intel CPUs are the sweet spot currently in terms of power/value. And what type of mobo do I need to upgrade to for that? I assume I can keep my current video card. Apparently video editing is not taxing on the video card, so my 7800GT should be fine.

Thanks for the info on Windows. Not switching to Vista yet so looking to keep XP.
 
Especially for HD crunching, you'll likely want quad. The Q6600 is probably the best value. There are tons of mobos out there that support it.

It appears your camera doesn't support Firewire. So you'll need to do some homework on mobos if the camera supports transferring over anything other than USB.
 
Just USB 2.0 for file transfers from my camera, so no need for firewire. thanks for input.

What's the correct workflow here? What will happen the first time I book my HD up with the new mobo/processor - will it prompt me to reinstall windows?
 
Originally posted by: petesamprs
What will happen the first time I book my HD up with the new mobo/processor - will it prompt me to reinstall windows?
Click to expand...

No, but it may prompt you to reactivate Windows. Since you already have Windows installed and are re-using the hard drive, you may not require reactivation. But like I said, some have reported WPA as hit-n-miss.

Before pulling your hard drive, be sure to uninstall the chipset drivers...and upon first boot, install the L&G chipset drivers for your new mobo.
 
Originally posted by: petesamprs
Just USB 2.0 for file transfers from my camera, so no need for firewire. thanks for input.

What's the correct workflow here? What will happen the first time I book my HD up with the new mobo/processor - will it prompt me to reinstall windows?
Click to expand...
What editor are you using? Since it is AVCHD, it is probably Pinnacle, Sony, or Ulead's suite.

These are the specs for Studio 11 Plus.
Minimum System Requirements
Windows® XP with SP2 or Windows Vista? operating system (32 bit Windows Vista recommended)

Intel® Pentium® or AMD® Athlon® 1.8 GHz or higher (2.4 GHz recommended) Intel® Pentium® HT or AMD® Athlon® 2.4 GHz or 1.6 GHz Dual core required for Windows Vista Intel® Core?2 Duo 2.4 GHz or higher required for AVCHD editing

512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended) - 1 GB required for HD and/or Windows Vista (2 GB recommended)
1.5 GB required for AVCHD (2 GB required on Windows Vista)

DirectX® 9 or higher compatible graphics card with 64 MB (128 MB recommended) - 128 MB required on Windows Vista (256 MB ATI® Radeon®9600+ or NVIDIA® GeForce? 6 or higher recommended) 256 MB required for HD and AVCHD editing (ATI® Radeon®9600+ or NVIDIA® GeForce? 6 or higher recommended)

DirectX 9 or higher compatible sound card

1 GB of disk space to install software and 3+ GB to install bonus content DVD-ROM drive to install software
Click to expand...

More processor would be your best bet. You fill the rest and more memory will not get you much beyond 2GB.

Studio does not do DX10 yet, so moving to Vista with a DX10.1 card is not going to buy anything. Studio does seem to do better with more memory on the video card, but it likes ATI much better than nVidia. Sony likes nVidia better. Not sure about Ulead, but I think they lean nVidia's way too.
 
I'd get a abit ip35-e or gigabyte ds3l. Throw in a e8400 or q6600, both will be just fine. Add 2x2gb of ram for 70-90$, and you're good to go. This should cost 400$ tops.
 
Originally posted by: petesamprs
Hi folks,
Just picked up a new a hard-drive HD camcorder (Canon HG10) which uses the AVCHD codec and therefore requires a powerful computer to edit the footage.

I currently have the computer in my sig below which I built about 2 years ago, and I'm looking for suggestions on the easiest way to upgrade it for this purpose.

My limitation is clearly a processor one, so I really only want to upgrade that and hold on to everything else I can since it's still in good shape. I suspect I need a new mobo and RAM though if I get a new processor.

Can anyone recommend a good upgrade path given what I already have and my objectives? Also, will I need to reinstall windows and/or reformat my HD with the new mobo/processor?
Click to expand...

CPU upgrade if you wish ...

AMD Opteron 175 Denmark 2.2GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 $150

6 months ago you had alot more (cheaper!) options ... s939 pickings are slim

No winXP reinstall - may need to update your bios ...

 
Originally posted by: gsellis
What editor are you using?
Click to expand...

I'm currently using Ulead's more basic product called DVD movie factory, which comes w/ the HG10. I'll get more powerful software once I know how to use the camera a bit better.

I agree that it's all about the processor for me...I'm in good shape for the other requirements.

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I'd get a abit ip35-e or gigabyte ds3l. Throw in a e8400 or q6600, both will be just fine. Add 2x2gb of ram for 70-90$, and you're good to go. This should cost 400$ tops.
Click to expand...

This is the plan I'm leaning towards. The q6600 probably makes more sense for me given the intended use, since most editing software will take full advantage of 4 cores (in the benchmarks it seems like 4 cores > 2 cores only for these types of applications)

What makes one board better than another, assuming I'm not going to be doing much/any oc'ing? btw, will my existing RAM work with the new mobo?

 
Originally posted by: petesamprs
Originally posted by: gsellis
What editor are you using?
Click to expand...

I'm currently using Ulead's more basic product called DVD movie factory, which comes w/ the HG10. I'll get more powerful software once I know how to use the camera a bit better.

I agree that it's all about the processor for me...I'm in good shape for the other requirements.

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I'd get a abit ip35-e or gigabyte ds3l. Throw in a e8400 or q6600, both will be just fine. Add 2x2gb of ram for 70-90$, and you're good to go. This should cost 400$ tops.
Click to expand...

This is the plan I'm leaning towards. The q6600 probably makes more sense for me given the intended use, since most editing software will take full advantage of 4 cores (in the benchmarks it seems like 4 cores > 2 cores only for these types of applications)

What makes one board better than another, assuming I'm not going to be doing much/any oc'ing? btw, will my existing RAM work with the new mobo?
Click to expand...

Well if you like Ulead's, you can get their full product and it will be just a step up.

BTW, q6600 is Intel. It will not work in your mobo. From your tag, you have a socket 939 board. I could only see that it supported Athlon series. In theory, it might support the Opteron 185, but I will not say that it will. Someone else will have to answer that and you might need a flash from eVGA.
 
He's allready leaning towards a new p35 mobo. If the abit and the gigabyte cost the same, as they do now, I'd probably go with the DS3L. No real reason though, just 'intuition' ? I think the abit suffers more from vdroop, and overall the ds3l is 'subjectively' of slightly better qaulity. Can't go wrong with either though, and if the rebates on the abit ip35-e are back, so it costs 70$ instead, then the abit is the way to go.

I wouldn't really invest into a s939 system anymore, especially because of this: Intel® Core?2 Duo 2.4 GHz or higher required for AVCHD editing. That means you need a 3.0ghz AMD dualcore, and those don't come cheap for s939 mobo's, and 3,0ghz isn't gauranteed when overclocking. So his best bet would be p35 + q6600 or e8400.
 
Originally posted by: petesamprs
Originally posted by: gsellis
What editor are you using?
Click to expand...

I'm currently using Ulead's more basic product called DVD movie factory, which comes w/ the HG10. I'll get more powerful software once I know how to use the camera a bit better.

I agree that it's all about the processor for me...I'm in good shape for the other requirements.

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I'd get a abit ip35-e or gigabyte ds3l. Throw in a e8400 or q6600, both will be just fine. Add 2x2gb of ram for 70-90$, and you're good to go. This should cost 400$ tops.
Click to expand...

This is the plan I'm leaning towards. The q6600 probably makes more sense for me given the intended use, since most editing software will take full advantage of 4 cores (in the benchmarks it seems like 4 cores > 2 cores only for these types of applications)

What makes one board better than another, assuming I'm not going to be doing much/any oc'ing? btw, will my existing RAM work with the new mobo?
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure that Ulead scales well from 2core to 4core. Surprisingly, the choices are still rather thin. Windows Media Encoder 9 & Premiere scale well with four cores. Avid Pinnacle and Xvid not so much. MainConcept scales well but is a little pricey for home use. Sorenson Squeeze not so good. Sony Vegas scales well from 2 to 4 cores.

Vegas and Adobe Premiere seem to be the top choices. And as the final surprise, a Premiere/Phenom combo rocks.

Otherwise, your best selection would be the e8400 dual core.
 
Windows Media Encoder 9 & Premiere scale well with four cores
Click to expand...

/Thread.

Get a Q6600 and 4 gigs of ram on a P35 board. It will set you back less than $500.

You can _not_ edit AVCHD on your single core 3700+. Not gonna happen by a long shot.

AVCHD is insanely processor intensive. We all know how intensive decoding a 1080p Blu Ray is on a CPU (in pure software) - even slower Core 2 Duos can have issues. AVCHD is a little easier since its bitrates are usually a little lower, and it doesn't have such extensive high profile features enabled, but it's still high bitrate 1080p H.264.

Now imagine decoding multiple streams in real time, and running a fat editing program on top of that. And photoshop / encore at the same time. Ouch. We need 64 bit versions of CS3 just so we can give each stupid program enough RAM to not bog down!!!

~MiSfit
 
And those are a steal. Seriously.

I never thought I'd see an Apple that was cheap (for what you get) but it really really is. You can NOT build an 8 core workstation for less than Apple charges.

They ream you in hard drive and RAM prices, but it's easy enough to skirt that by buying from a decent 3rd party.

Amazing.

~MiSfit
 
Originally posted by: wired247
I have to agree with misfit, unless you can front a dual quadcore CPU mac pro
Click to expand...

4core to 8core is pretty much useless unless you are in a studio environment w/ $20k (minimum) worth of hardware & software. Anand even dogged Skulltrail in media encodes a few weeks ago. Some 2p systems actually run slower or show very marginal improvement.

If the 'software' will not run encoding threads in true parallel (as noted with Premiere, Vegas & Win Media 9) you are generally better off going with the fastest dual core you can afford, investing in multiple fast hard disks and jacking up your ram.

And 64-bit Premiere/Encore would be wunnerful 🙂
 
4core to 8core is pretty much useless unless you are in a studio environment w/ $20k (minimum) worth of hardware & software.
Click to expand...
Not true at all. If you do H.264 video encoding using x264, you will max out all those cores. HD-DVD / Blu-Ray backup for example is one of the most intense video encoding tasks possible for the average user at the moment, and it will use all 8 cores, provided your whole pipeline is multithreaded, which it certainly can be. Rendering will always gobble up all the CPU time it can get.

True though that the vast majority of applications don't really see the benefit from more than 2 cores (and many are still single threaded).

~MiSfit
 
Originally posted by: themisfit610
4core to 8core is pretty much useless unless you are in a studio environment w/ $20k (minimum) worth of hardware & software.
Click to expand...
Not true at all. If you do H.264 video encoding using x264, you will max out all those cores. HD-DVD / Blu-Ray backup for example is one of the most intense video encoding tasks possible for the average user at the moment, and it will use all 8 cores, provided your whole pipeline is multithreaded, which it certainly can be. Rendering will always gobble up all the CPU time it can get.

True though that the vast majority of applications don't really see the benefit from more than 2 cores (and many are still single threaded).

~MiSfit
Click to expand...
Agreed. It also assumes that your only are a single app user. I will edit video, edit audio, and work on titles at the same time on occasions. My 'Pinnacle' editor has taken 4 cores to the max (it depends on what you are working on).

Oh, a trick with Hash Animation:Master pre-version 14 was to have cores-1 copies running each doing a segment of a sequence.

 
Thanks everyone. I went with the following order off the egg:

Qty Product Description Price
1 ABIT IP35-E LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813127031
$30.00 Mail-in Rebate

Limited 30-Day Return Policy

$99.99

1 Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600
Item #: N82E16819115017

Processors (CPUs) Return Policy

$254.99

1 G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ
Item #: N82E16820231122

Memory (Modules, USB) Return Policy

$89.99


I'll report back on if I have issues with the install.
 
Originally posted by: gsellis
Originally posted by: themisfit610
4core to 8core is pretty much useless unless you are in a studio environment w/ $20k (minimum) worth of hardware & software.
Click to expand...
Not true at all. If you do H.264 video encoding using x264, you will max out all those cores. HD-DVD / Blu-Ray backup for example is one of the most intense video encoding tasks possible for the average user at the moment, and it will use all 8 cores, provided your whole pipeline is multithreaded, which it certainly can be. Rendering will always gobble up all the CPU time it can get.

True though that the vast majority of applications don't really see the benefit from more than 2 cores (and many are still single threaded).

~MiSfit
Click to expand...
Agreed. It also assumes that your only are a single app user. I will edit video, edit audio, and work on titles at the same time on occasions. My 'Pinnacle' editor has taken 4 cores to the max (it depends on what you are working on).

Oh, a trick with Hash Animation:Master pre-version 14 was to have cores-1 copies running each doing a segment of a sequence.
Click to expand...


yea the final step that matters is the encode time.
and thats going to support multicore. any decent software does or will soon or will be slammed by the competition.
 
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