Ridge backpedals on pressure to raise terror alert level

[ProfJohn]

So... when this thread was started a LOT of members just assumed that the press release was right and that Tom Ridge was pressured to raise the terror alert level for political reasons.

But now Ridge is backpedalling on those comments.

I guess the few of us who suggested we wait for the book to come out before we rush to judgement were right and a bunch of left wingers on here should be eating crow for breakfast tomorrow.

Ridge backpedals on pressure to raise terror alert level
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...-08-30-tom-ridge_N.htm

WASHINGTON ? Former Homeland Security secretary Tom Ridge, speaking for the first time about accusations made in his new book, says he did not mean to suggest that other top Bush administration officials were playing politics with the nation's security before the 2004 presidential election.
"I'm not second-guessing my colleagues," Ridge said in an interview about The Test of Our Times, which comes out Tuesday and recounts his experiences as head of the nation's homeland security efforts in the first several years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

In the book, Ridge portrays his fledgling department as playing second fiddle to other Cabinet-level heavyweights. As secretary, he says he was never invited to participate in National Security Council meetings, he was left out of the information loop by the FBI and his proposal to establish Homeland Security offices in major cities such as New Orleans were rejected.

His most explosive accusation: that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Attorney General John Ashcroft pressed him to raise the national threat level after Osama bin Laden released a videotape criticizing President Bush shortly before Election Day 2004. Ridge writes he rejected raising the level because bin Laden had released nearly 20 such tapes since 9/11 and the latest contained nothing suggesting an imminent threat.

Noting that Bush's approval ratings typically went up when the threat level was raised, Ridge writes that Ashcroft and Rumsfeld pushed to elevate it during a "vigorous" discussion.

"Ashcroft strongly urged an increase in the threat level, and was supported by Rumsfeld," he writes. "There was absolutely no support for that position within our department. None. I wondered, 'Is this about security or politics?' "

Although he prevailed and the threat level was not elevated, Ridge writes that the episode reinforced his decision to resign. He did so weeks after the election.

Last week, when word got out about Ridge's accusations, Rumsfeld's spokesman Keith Urbahn issued a statement calling them "nonsense."

Now, Ridge says he did not mean to suggest he was pressured to raise the threat level, and he is not accusing anyone of trying to boost Bush in the polls. "I was never pressured," Ridge said.

The former secretary and Pennsylvania governor, who now heads a security consulting firm called Ridge Global, also said in the interview that:

? He and his immediate successor, Michael Chertoff, recently were asked to speak with a panel considering changes to the color-coded threat advisory system for new Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

? He is "dumbfounded" that the government still has no way to track foreign visitors who don't leave the country when their visas expire, noting that two of the 9/11 hijackers were in the country on expired visas.

? Government officials and members of Congress rarely discuss homeland security issues and have "lost the sense of urgency" about protecting the nation from terrorist attacks. Because of the economy and growing budget deficits, he also is worried about funding for future efforts to tighten security.

 

[dammitgibs]

Shit, book ain't gonna sell itself.

 

[MedicBob]

Originally posted by: dammitgibs
Shit, book ain't gonna sell itself.

Without a doubt.

 

[BoomerD]

So...he said it...then he didn't?

 

[sandorski]

You're the connesiuer(sp), perhaps you should include your favourite recipes.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
So...he said it...then he didn't?

And that is somehow now someone other than Ridges fault/problem.

Weak shit OP.

 

[Craig234]

Funny, sorta changes depending which quote you bold.

"Ashcroft strongly urged an increase in the threat level, and was supported by Rumsfeld," he writes. "There was absolutely no support for that position within our department. None. I wondered, 'Is this about security or politics?' "

Although he prevailed and the threat level was not elevated, Ridge writes that the episode reinforced his decision to resign.

So, he not only believed that the pressure from others was political, wondering how it could be security when his own department had 'zero' support for it - but he felt it was political so strongly that it had an impact on his deciding to resign rather than be a part of the political manipulation.

He says he's not second guessing them, after saying he secojnd guessed them.

Saying he saw no basis for their position and resigned in protest isn't exactly disproving the allegations.

That's a bit like claimiing Iran-Contra never happened becase some of the convictions were overturned on technicalities, not because the evidence was refuted.

It's amazing the BS Republican leaders can get away with with their sheep, the loudest voices against playing games with security, while being the ones who do so.

The corruption of the Republican on security measures, between the power grabs, the terrorism and violence, trampling the constitution, the crony capitalism of strong support for the military-industrial complex revolding door, a mercenary group murdering secretly with a radical right-wing religious agenda like Blackwater, the Bush-connects Carlyle group and much more, is more pollution than a Superfund site.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
So...he said it...then he didn't?

They've become expert Flip-Floppers

 

[Druidx]

It cracks me up how everything is always such a conspiracy to the hacks on BOTH sides.

 

[Lemon law]

It looks like the crow Non Prof John has served up is a dish he is going to have to eat himself. Non Prof John initial assumption seems to be that Ridge is credible, and therefore his subsequent recanting of an earlier statement is therefore credible.

First Ridge says it to sell books, later he backpedals to semi stay in the good graces of the GOP, and an endorsement by Rumsfeld is a badge of shame.

Tell me again, why I should believe in the security efforts of GWB&co, they totally failed to see 911 coming despite numerous warning about the dangers of Al Quida, they never found Ossama Bin Laden, they totally botched the conduct of two wars from the get go, and now PJ has the gall to think anyone back then paid much attention to Ridge as he raised and lowered various different color flags while making a ceremony over it.

Anyone with brain one back then suspected Ridge was doing it by mirrors, magnets, and dartboards. And please do not let me start in on Ridge's replacement, Chertoff, to his credit, at least he did not play with flags, beyond that his incompetence is a whole different story as he made Brownie his personal scapegoat among other numerous failings.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Welcome back, Johnnie

While we are at it let's drag up a thread about The Crime Cabal crowing about being greeted as liberators in Iraq and how that 'overseas contingency operation' was only going to cost $40b ...

 

[Pens1566]

Let me guess, did Rush call him out? Is this the apology?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Funny, sorta changes depending which quote you bold.

"Ashcroft strongly urged an increase in the threat level, and was supported by Rumsfeld," he writes. "There was absolutely no support for that position within our department. None. I wondered, 'Is this about security or politics?' "

Although he prevailed and the threat level was not elevated, Ridge writes that the episode reinforced his decision to resign.

So, he not only believed that the pressure from others was political...
-snip-

^That's exactly how this crap gets started in the first place - "wonder" != "believed". Yet plenty people rush to spin.

It might be reasonable to claim this guy was "wondering" if the pressure by Ashcroft & Rumsfeld was political in nature. But to claim he was "acussing" them of political games is a distortion, yet that's how the book's passage was spun by many in the MSM etc (and here too).

Fern

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Craig234
Funny, sorta changes depending which quote you bold.

"Ashcroft strongly urged an increase in the threat level, and was supported by Rumsfeld," he writes. "There was absolutely no support for that position within our department. None. I wondered, 'Is this about security or politics?' "

Although he prevailed and the threat level was not elevated, Ridge writes that the episode reinforced his decision to resign.

So, he not only believed that the pressure from others was political...
-snip-

^That's exactly how this crap gets started in the first place - "wonder" != "believed". Yet plenty people rush to spin.

It might be reasonable to claim this guy was "wondering" if the pressure by Ashcroft & Rumsfeld was political in nature. But to claim he was "acussing" them of political games is a distortion, yet that's how the book's passage was spun by many in the MSM etc (and here too).

Fern

The important phrase here isn't 'wondered', it's the reason why he wrote it.

There's a big difference between:

"He was suddenly working late a lot, started hiding his cell phone bill, lost interest in sex and I heard a woman giggling when I called his call phone, and wondered, is he cheating?"

And, "I saw a study saying half of all spouses cheat, and wondered, is he one of them?"

One is strongly supported by facts, the other much more idle speculation.

The comments by Ridge are more the former.

There was absolutely no support for that position within our department. None.

That's not idle wondering, it's strong evidence something is up. I think that the interpretation of his comments as being more than a wild guess is well supported.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Topic Title: Ridge backpedals on pressure to raise terror alert level
Topic Summary: How do you guys want your crow served??

It should be served with an extra large helping of self-serving double talk and hypocrisy, just like everything else coming from any duplicitous, lying Bushwhacko. :thumbsdown: :|

You remember, PJ, the same fine people who lied about domestic spying, torture and other war crimes and the same fine people who gave us gems like:

• "Iraq is busy enhancing its capabilities in the field of chemical and biological agents, and they continue to pursue an aggressive nuclear weapons program. These are offensive weapons for the purpose of inflicting death on a massive scale, developed so that Saddam Hussein can hold the threat over the head of any one he chooses. What we must not do in the face of this mortal threat is to give in to wishful thinking or to willful blindness."
  Vice President Dick Cheney, 8/29/02
  
• "Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent - that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons."
  Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02
  
• "No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq."
  Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/19/02
  
• "This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined."
  George W. Bush, 9/26/02
  
• "The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency."
  George W. Bush, 10/2/02
  
• "There's a grave threat in Iraq. There just is."
  George W. Bush, 10/2/02
  
• "There are many dangers in the world, the threat from Iraq stands alone because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists."
  George W. Bush, 10/7/02
  
• "The Iraqi regime is a serious and growing threat to peace."
  George W. Bush, 10/16/02
  
• "There is real threat, in my judgment, a real and dangerous threat to American in Iraq in the form of Saddam Hussein."
  George W. Bush, 10/28/02
  
• "I see a significant threat to the security of the United States in Iraq."
  George W. Bush, 11/1/02
  
• "I would look you in the eye and I would say, go back before September 11 and ask yourself this question: Was the attack that took place on September 11 an imminent threat the month before or two months before or three months before or six months before? When did the attack on September 11 become an imminent threat? Now, transport yourself forward a year, two years or a week or a month...So the question is, when is it such an immediate threat that you must do something?"
  Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 11/14/02
  
• "Saddam Hussein is a threat to America."
  George W. Bush, 11/3/02
  
• "The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq whose dictator has already used weapons of mass destruction to kill thousands."
  George W. Bush, 11/23/02
  
• "The Iraqi regime is a threat to any American. They not only have weapons of mass destruction, they used weapons of mass destruction...That's why I say Iraq is a threat, a real threat."
  George W. Bush, 1/3/03
  
• "Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons. Iraq poses a threat to the security of our people and to the stability of the world that is distinct from any other. It's a danger to its neighbors, to the United States, to the Middle East and to the international peace and stability. It's a danger we cannot ignore. Iraq and North Korea are both repressive dictatorships to be sure and both pose threats. But Iraq is unique. In both word and deed, Iraq has demonstrated that it is seeking the means to strike the United States and our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction."
  Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/20/03
  
• "Iraq poses a serious and mounting threat to our country. His regime has the design for a nuclear weapon, was working on several different methods of enriching uranium, and recently was discovered seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
  Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/29/03
  
• "Well, of course he is.?
  White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett responding to the question ?is Saddam an imminent threat to U.S. interests, either in that part of the world or to Americans right here at home??, 1/26/03
  
• Iraq poses "terrible threats to the civilized world."
  Dick Cheney, 1/30/03
  
• Iraq "threatens the United States of America."
  Dick Cheney, 1/30/03
  
• Iraq is "a serious threat to our country, to our friends and to our allies."
  Dick Cheney, 1/31/03
  
• "This is about imminent threat."
  White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 2/10/03
  
• "The dictator of Iraq and his weapons of mass destruction are a threat to the security of free nations."
  George W. Bush, 3/16/03
  
• "The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder."
  George W. Bush, 3/19/03
  
• "It is only a matter of time before the Iraqi regime is destroyed and its threat to the region and the world is ended."
  Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke, 3/22/03
  
• "The threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction will be removed."
  Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 3/25/03
  
• "We gave our word that the threat from Iraq would be ended."
  George W. Bush 4/24/03
  
• "Absolutely."
  White House spokesman Ari Fleischer answering whether Iraq was an "imminent threat," 5/7/03
  
• "Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States because we removed him, but he was a threat...He was a threat. He's not a threat now."
  George W. Bush, 7/2/03
  
• Iraq was "the most dangerous threat of our time."
  White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 7/17/03
  
• "We ended the threat from Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction."
  George W. Bush, 7/17/03
  
• "There's no question that Iraq was a threat to the people of the United States."
  White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan, 8/26/03
  
• We learned more and more that there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the ?90s, that it involved training, for example, on BW and CW, that al-Qaeda sent personnel to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved. The Iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the al-Qaeda organization.
  
• "Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."
  George W. Bush, 1/28/2003 State of the Union Address
  
• "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
  George W. Bush, 1/28/2003 State of the Union Address
  
• "We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
  Dick Cheney, 3/16/2003 on ?Meet the Press?
  
• We know, for example, in connection with the original World Trade Center bombing in ?93 that one of the bombers was Iraqi, returned to Iraq after the attack of ?93. And we?ve learned subsequent to that, since we went into Baghdad and got into the intelligence files, that this individual probably also received financing from the Iraqi government as well as safe haven.
  Dick Cheney, 9/14/2003 on "Meet The Press"

You remember, PJ, because you've pimped all of that, just as you're pimping this current POS as if it meant anything other than your mercifully EX-Traitor In Chief and his criminal cabal were anything but the lying criminals they are. :thumbsdown: :|

Originally posted by: dammitgibs

Shit, book ain't gonna sell itself.

It won't help sales when the author steps out in public to refute the very premise of the book he's pimping, but it speaks volumes about his credibility. :roll:

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: dammitgibs
Shit, book ain't gonna sell itself.

Succinctly put.

/thread

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: dammitgibs
Shit, book ain't gonna sell itself.

Succinctly put.

/thread

Pro: Succinct
Con: Dishonest

You weigh that as a net positive, eh?

Hopping on the dishonest bandwagon that whistleblowers are normally lying to sell books.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Harveyharvey macro.txt

Uhh... what does that have to do with the topic of Ridge correcting the spin/assumptions/etc about what he wrote in his book?

 

[Druidx]

Originally posted by: Harvey

***snip****
Long list of quotes we've all sen a dozen times

Bush said this
Bush said that

blah, blah, blah
***snip****

Be honest for once, you forgot these
http://myuploadpage.com/Harvey/TheLyingCabal.htm

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Druidx

Originally posted by: Harvey

***snip****
Long list of quotes we've all sen a dozen times

Bush said this
Bush said that

blah, blah, blah
***snip****

You may have seen them all a dozen times, but obviously, but if you're referring to the list I posted, above, they're obviously not enough to get you to remember them. Here -- Let me refesh your memory with even more of the "this" and "that" and the "blah, blah, blah" that represent LIES spoken by your thankfully EX-Traitor In Chief and his cabal of traitors, murderers, torturers, war criminals, war profiteers and general incompetents by listing a few more of their lies and deception as documented in the 9-11 Commission Report from 2004.

If that's not enough for you, we can move on to admin quotes about the mysteriously disappearing communications between the Whitehouse and Gonzo the Clown and his lackeys at the Department of Justice and their lies about a host of their other lies, failures and deceptions.

Need more? No problem.

It took me only two minutes to find several of my posts with the following list of Bushwhacko lies and incompetence from one of my earlier posts. I warned you, and I apologize in advance for reposting it because it's very long, but since you insist...

• The "intelligence" fed to Congress and the American people was cherry picked and directed from the top.
  
• Rumsfeld set his own parallel "intelligence" operation within DOD when the CIA and FBI couldn't tell him what he wanted to hear.
  
• There was no yellow cake uranium in Niger.
  
• There were no aluminum tubes capable of being used in centrifuges process nuclear material.
  
• There were no facilities for making nerve gas or biological weapons.
  
• There were no long range rockets.
  
• There were no WMD's.
  
• There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq.

They ignored any information from competent internal sources that ran counter to their ambitions:

• They ignored all warnings about the possiblity of an attack like 9/11, despite explicit warnings from people like Richard Clarke, former terrorisim advisor to Presidents Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton. Richard Clarke also warned Bush that Saddam probably was not tied to 9/11.
  
  The Bushwhackos didn't want to hear that so they did what any good exec would do -- They fired him.
  
• They claimed their pre-war planning included plenty of troops to handle foreseeable problems in the aftermath of their invasion, despite warnings from Army Chief of Staff, Eric Shinseki that they would need around 400,000 troops to do the job.
  
  The Bushwhackos administration didn't want to hear that so they did what any good exec would do -- They fired him.
  
• Before Bush started his war of lies, Ambassador Joseph Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate reports that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake uranium. He returned and informed that the reports were false.
  
  The Bushwhackos administration didn't want to hear that so they did what any good adminstration would do. They outed his wife, Valerie Plame's identity as a covert CIA operative, blowing off her value to our national security and endangering her life and the lives of everyone who ever worked with her anywhere in the world.

Need more lies? Try these:

• Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction
  Dick Cheney, speech to VFW National Convention, Aug. 26, 2002
  
• Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.
  George W. Bush, speech to UN General Assembly, Sept. 12, 2002
  
• No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
  Donald Rumsfeld, testimony to Congress, Sept. 19, 2002
  
• If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.
  Ari Fleischer, press briefing, Dec. 2, 2002
  
• We know for a fact that there are weapons there.
  Ari Fleischer, press briefing, Jan. 9, 2003
  
• Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard, and VX nerve agent?. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
  George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003
  
• We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons - the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.
  George W. Bush, radio address, Feb. 8, 2003
  
• Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
  George W. Bush, address to the U.S., March 17, 2003
  
• The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder.
  George W. Bush, address to U.S., March 19, 2003
  
• Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly?..All this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes.
  Ari Fleisher, press briefing, March 21, 2003
  
• We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat.
  Donald Rumsfeld, ABC interview, March 30, 2003
  
  But make no mistake - as I said earlier - we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found.
  Ari Fleischer, press briefing, April 10, 2003
  
• We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them.
  George W. Bush, NBC interview, April 24, 2003
  
• There are people who in large measure have information that we need?.so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country.
  Donald Rumsfeld, press briefing, April 25, 2003
  
• We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so.
  George W. Bush, remarks to reporters, May 3, 2003
  
• I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now.
  Colin Powell, remarks to reporters, May 4, 2003
  
• I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein ? because he had a weapons program.
  George W. Bush, remarks to reporters, May 6, 2003
  
• We said what we said because we meant it?..We continue to have confidence that WMD will be found.
  Ari Fleischer, press briefing, May 7, 2003
  
• You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on, but for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them.
  George W. Bush, remarks to reporters, May 31, 2003
  
• U.S. officials never expected that "we were going to open garages and find" weapons of mass destruction.
  Condoleeza Rice, Reuters interview, May 12, 2003
  
• We never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country.
  Donald Rumsfeld, Fox News interview, May 4, 2003
  
• I don't believe anyone that I know in the administration ever said that Iraq had nuclear weapons [SEE NEXT QUOTE].
  Donald Rumsfeld, Senate appropriations subcommittee on defense hearing, May 14, 2003
  
• We believe [Hussein] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.
  Dick Cheney, NBC's Meet the Press, March 16, 2003
  
• They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer.
  Donald Rumsfeld, remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations, May 27, 2003
  
• "I think some in the media have chosen to use the word 'imminent.? Those were not words we used. We used 'grave and gathering' threat." [SEE NEXT QUOTES].
  Scott McClellan, press briefing, Jan. 31, 2004
  
• This is about an imminent threat.
  Scott McClellan, press briefing, Feb. 10, 2003
  
• After being asked whether Hussein was an "imminent" threat: "Well, of course he is."
  Dan Bartlett, CNN interview, Jan. 26, 2003
  
• After being asked whether the U.S. went to war because officials said Hussein?s alleged weapons were a direct, imminent threat to the U.S.: "Absolutely."
  Ari Fleischer, press briefing, May 7, 2003

Before Bush started his war of lies, Ambassador Joseph Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate reports that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake uranium. He returned and informed them that the reports were false, and that several European intelligence agencies had thoroughly discredited the source for the reports.

The Bushwhackos administration didn't want to hear that so they did what any good adminstration would do. They outed his wife, Valerie Plame's identity as a covert CIA operative, blowing off her value to our national security and endangering her life and the lives of everyone who ever worked with her anywhere in the world.

• There were no aluminum tubes capable of being used in centrifuges to process nuclear material.

Evidence on Iraq Challenged
Experts Question if Tubes Were Meant for Weapons Program

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 19, 2002

A key piece of evidence in the Bush administration's case against Iraq is being challenged in a report by independent experts who question whether thousands of high-strength aluminum tubes recently sought by Iraq were intended for a secret nuclear weapons program.

The White House last week said attempts by Iraq to acquire the tubes point to a clandestine program to make enriched uranium for nuclear bombs. But the experts say in a new report that the evidence is ambiguous, and in some ways contradicts what is known about Iraq's past nuclear efforts.

The report, from the Institute for Science and International Security, also contends that the Bush administration is trying to quiet dissent among its own analysts over how to interpret the evidence. The report, a draft of which was obtained by The Washington Post, was authored by David Albright, a physicist who investigated Iraq's nuclear weapons program following the 1991 Persian Gulf War as a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency's inspection team. The institute, headquartered in Washington, is an independent group that studies nuclear and other security issues.

"By themselves, these attempted procurements are not evidence that Iraq is in possession of, or close to possessing, nuclear weapons," the report said. "They do not provide evidence that Iraq has an operating centrifuge plant or when such a plant could be operational."

The controversy stems from shipments to Iraq of specialized aluminum metal that were seized en route by governments allied with the United States. A U.S. intelligence official confirmed that at least two such shipments were seized within the past 14 months, although he declined to give details. The Associated Press, citing sources familiar with the shipments, reported that one originated in China and was intercepted in Jordan.

The shipments sparked concern among U.S. intelligence analysts because of the potential use of such tubes in centrifuges, fast-spinning machines used in making enriched uranium for nuclear bombs. High-strength, heat-resistant metals are needed for centrifuge casings as well as for the rotors, which turn at up to 1,000 rotations per minute.

There is no evidence that any of the tubes reached Iraq. But in its white paper on Iraq released to the United Nations last week, the Bush administration cited the seized shipments as evidence that Iraq is actively seeking to develop nuclear weapons. Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, said in a televised interview that the tubes "are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs."

Since then, U.S. officials have acknowledged differing opinions within the U.S. intelligence community about possible uses for the tubes -- with some experts contending that a more plausible explanation was that the aluminum was meant to build launch tubes for Iraq's artillery rockets.

"But the majority view, held by senior officials here, is that they were most likely intended for gas centrifuges," one U.S. intelligence official said in an interview.

The new report questions that conclusion on several grounds, most of them technical. It says the seized tubes were made of a kind of aluminum that is ill-suited for welding. Other specifications of the imported metal are at odds with what is known about Iraq's previous attempts to build centrifuges. In fact, the report said, Iraq had largely abandoned aluminum for other materials, such as specialized steel and carbon fiber, in its centrifuges at the time its nuclear program was destroyed by allied bombers in the Gulf War.

According to Albright, government experts on nuclear technology who dissented from the Bush administration's view told him they were expected to remain silent. Several Energy Department officials familiar with the aluminum shipments declined to comment.

Note the date -- September 19, 2002, BEFORE they launched their war of LIES.

• There were no facilities for making nerve gas or biological weapons
  
• There were no long range rockets.
  
• There were no WMD's.
  
• There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq.

Even Colin Powell has since said he strongly questioned the "evidence" the Bushwhackos were pimping to Congress and the American people before he gave his infamous dog and pony show at the U.N.

Powell: Some Iraq testimony not 'solid'

Saturday, April 3, 2004 Posted: 11:05 AM EST (1605 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said his pre-war testimony to the U.N. Security Council about Iraq's alleged mobile, biological weapons labs was based on information that appears not to be "solid."

Powell's speech before the Security Council on February, 5, 2003 --detailing possible weapons of mass destruction in Iraq -- was a major event in the Bush administration's effort to justify a war and win international support.

Powell said Friday his testimony about Iraq and mobile biological weapons labs was based on the best intelligence available, but "now it appears not to be the case that it was that solid," Powell said.
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You can pick and choose from the examples in the article, but remember George Tenet's "slam dunk?" Remember the infamously unreliable testimony from "Curveball? :roll:

Powell also told columnist, Robert Scheer that he and his department?s top experts never believed that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat, but that the president followed the misleading advice of Vice President Dick Cheney and the CIA in making the claim.

Robert Scheer: Now Powell Tells Us
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On Monday, former Secretary of State Colin Powell told me that he and his department?s top experts never believed that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat, but that the president followed the misleading advice of Vice President Dick Cheney and the CIA in making the claim. Now he tells us.
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I queried Powell at a reception following a talk he gave in Los Angeles on Monday. Pointing out that the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate showed that his State Department had gotten it right on the nonexistent Iraq nuclear threat, I asked why did the president ignore that wisdom in his stated case for the invasion?

?The CIA was pushing the aluminum tube argument heavily and Cheney went with that instead of what our guys wrote,? Powell said. And the Niger reference in Bush?s State of the Union speech? ?That was a big mistake,? he said. ?It should never have been in the speech. I didn?t need Wilson to tell me that there wasn?t a Niger connection. He didn?t tell us anything we didn?t already know. I never believed it.?

When I pressed further as to why the president played up the Iraq nuclear threat, Powell said it wasn?t the president: ?That was all Cheney.?
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Originally posted by: Druidx

Be honest for once, you forgot these
http://myuploadpage.com/Harvey/TheLyingCabal.htm

Now, it's your turn to be honest, possibly for the first time in your life. Either:

1. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, or

2. You're just another Bushwhacko sycophant pimping their lies, pimping their war, pimping their treason, pimping their torture, pimping their murder, pimping complete denial of the magnitude and monstrosity of their heinous crimes.

Which is it?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Harveyharvey macro.txt

Uhh... what does that have to do with the topic of Ridge correcting the spin/assumptions/etc about what he wrote in his book?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Harveyharvey macro.txt

Uhh... what does that have to do with the topic of Ridge correcting the spin/assumptions/etc about what he wrote in his book?

Gosh oh gee willikers, CAD. You'd actually have to read the thread and see my first reply to PJ's OP to know that. :Q The rest follows as direct replies to druidx's denial and dismissal of the truth in my posts.

I know you're a busy guy so I'll save you the effort of scrolling up and refresh your memory by reposting just the start of my first reply:

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Topic Title: Ridge backpedals on pressure to raise terror alert level
Topic Summary: How do you guys want your crow served??

It should be served with an extra large helping of self-serving double talk and hypocrisy, just like everything else coming from any duplicitous, lying Bushwhacko. :thumbsdown: :|

You remember, PJ, the same fine people who lied about domestic spying, torture and other war crimes and the same fine people who gave us gems like:

(continues with first list of Bushwhacko lies to make the point)

You'll have to learn how to scroll up to read the rest of the post.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: MedicBob

Originally posted by: dammitgibs
Shit, book ain't gonna sell itself.

Without a doubt.

Agreed

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Harveyharvey macro.txt

Uhh... what does that have to do with the topic of Ridge correcting the spin/assumptions/etc about what he wrote in his book?

Gosh oh gee willikers, CAD. You'd actually have to read the thread and see my first reply to PJ's OP to know that. :Q The rest follows as direct replies to druidx's denial and dismissal of the truth in my posts.

I know you're a busy guy so I'll save you the effort of scrolling up and refresh your memory by reposting just the start of my first reply:

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Topic Title: Ridge backpedals on pressure to raise terror alert level
Topic Summary: How do you guys want your crow served??

It should be served with an extra large helping of self-serving double talk and hypocrisy, just like everything else coming from any duplicitous, lying Bushwhacko. :thumbsdown: :|

You remember, PJ, the same fine people who lied about domestic spying, torture and other war crimes and the same fine people who gave us gems like:

(continues with first list of Bushwhacko lies to make the point)

You'll have to learn how to scroll up to read the rest of the post.

Psssttt - I responded to your first harveymacro.txt the same way. You'd have to scroll up to see it though...

You still didn't answer the question though - what does your post have to do with Ridge correcting the spin by your types?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

You still didn't answer the question though - what does your post have to do with Ridge correcting the spin by your types?

No, you're just a bit slow, today. I did answer your question. It was part of my direct reply to PJ's OP.

But it's interesting you should ask, again, because while I was in the shower, I thought about revisiting your question with another reply so here it is...

When he wrote in the book suggesting, implying (or whatever other word you want to use in an attempt to mitigate the seriousness of the implications of what he said) that the Bushwhackos abused the power of their offices to raise the "threat level" on their rainbow fantasy chart for political purposes in a deliberate attempt to influence public opinion at critical moments, for example, to influence an election.

Whether or not it actually happened on any given occasion is of no consequence. It was a crime that they even discussed doing so among members of the Bushwacko adminstration.

If Ridge now backs off from that assertion, there are only two possiblities:

1. His statements in the book are sensationalistic, self-serving lies included to pimp sales of the book.

2. His public statements refuting his statements in the book are self-serving lies intended to get him and the rest of the Bushwacko traitors, murderers, torturers and war criminals off the hook for the crimes he suggests or implies (or whatever other weasel word you want to use).

Those are self-contradictory, mutually exclusive conditions, and in any case, at least one of them is a lie so there's no reason to believe anything Ridge says, especially anything intended to mitigate the seriousness of the Bushwhackos' crimes, including his own.