Richland & Kabini rumours

[IntelUser2000]

Clover Trail is not in the same league , Kabini has four hard cores
with each being more efficient than a CT core.

Core offering is undoubtly of higher perfs but it is also more expensive
to manufacture.

Bzzzt... wrong answer.

Try again, looking back on what I said. I feel based on your response it won't be so obvious to you.

Also, the dual core ULV Ivy Bridge is nearly 4 times faster than Brazos in multi-threaded application.

 

[Abwx]

Bzzzt... wrong answer.

Try again, looking back on what I said. I feel based on your response it won't be so obvious to you.

I wasnt particularly adressing your guesses...

Also, the dual core ULV Ivy Bridge is nearly 4 times faster than Brazos in multi-threaded application.

Perhaps , but Brazos is a 40nm 2C while IB has HT ,
what about the comparison with a 4C Kabini that is
supposed to have 25% better ST perfs than Brazos ?.

IB 2C/4T may still be 40-50% faster in MT but this wont be
a decisive advantage once price/perf ratio is introduced
in the equation.

 

[pablo87]

Or you can get HyperTX3 for 20$ on newegg? It's always some reason not to buy AMD with you... Sure,why not buy a WC setup to OC lowly Athlon that costs 65 euros? Wait it's unlocked,let's try LN2? :awe:

PS In the link I provided it's competitive versus OCed i3 3220,not stock. To OC i3 you need a better mobo that allows you to use Turbo multipliers,to OC 750K you don't.

Thanks for the info. Btw, where can this part be purchased, what is the price point? Are these harvested parts or native GPU less Trinity's?

I went to newegg.com and nothing.

 

[pablo87]

"Fjernlager" means remote warehouse. And since its an internet shop its the prefered method. They own the remote warehouse.

So its in stock and you would get it next day with the parcel service. (Or have it delivered for pickup in one of the "shops".

The "shops" are selvservice shops thats basicly nothing but a PC Kiosk for ordering from the remote warehouse.
http://www.proshop.dk/Om-Proshop/Om-butikken.htm



The warehouse is Proshops own.
http://www.logimatic.dk/media/Case_Proshop_dk.pdf

Thanks, well Denmark is such a small country and so efficient I can believe that its next day.

Unfortunately I'm in the US and usually buy from newegg and they do not show this part being available...maybe the ball got dropped during the layoffs?

 

[SiliconWars]

Also, the dual core ULV Ivy Bridge is nearly 4 times faster than Brazos in multi-threaded application.

So 4 threads vs 2 and generations ahead in manufacturing process...you could say that isn't really all that impressive especially as Brazos probably has it beat in gaming.

But lets humour you for a bit anyway. Take that 4x faster, half it for Kabini's 4 cores. It's now ~2x faster in multithreading. Now remove a bit for higher clocks due to the process gain (don't forget that TSMC's 40nm didn't even have HKMG, but the 28nm does). Add a bit more for IPC gain - Let's say it's a 2 GHz quad core then?

I guess the ULV ivy bridge is going to be some 60-70% faster in multithreading while getting thrashed in gaming. Not that it matters, because there is no way intel will make or sell ULV's in the tens of millions of units, unlike Kabini which will surely go on to sell 30+ million in it's first year.

Find another champion - your ULV isn't it and it will never be in the same class. Think Atom, that's your lot just like it was with Brazos and it is the ONLY chip intel can properly go head to head with against Kabini.

 

[Haserath]

So 4 threads vs 2 and generations ahead in manufacturing process...you could say that isn't really all that impressive especially as Brazos probably has it beat in gaming.

But lets humour you for a bit anyway. Take that 4x faster, half it for Kabini's 4 cores. It's now ~2x faster in multithreading. Now remove a bit for higher clocks due to the process gain (don't forget that TSMC's 40nm didn't even have HKMG, but the 28nm does). Add a bit more for IPC gain - Let's say it's a 2 GHz quad core then?

I guess the ULV ivy bridge is going to be some 60-70% faster in multithreading while getting thrashed in gaming. Not that it matters, because there is no way intel will make or sell ULV's in the tens of millions of units, unlike Kabini which will surely go on to sell 30+ million in it's first year.

Find another champion - your ULV isn't it and it will never be in the same class. Think Atom, that's your lot just like it was with Brazos and it is the ONLY chip intel can properly go head to head with against Kabini.

It will be going up against ULV Haswell. Which boosts that back up to about 2x with 4 threads and more with less.

Atom is going to be phone only soon. That's the only place Intel would have a difficult time getting core into.

AMD can't compete on power efficiency with core, but they can try the cheap solution with Kabini's platform. Only thanks to Intel being smart about pricing.

 

[SiliconWars]

It will be going up against ULV Haswell. Which boosts that back up to about 2x with 4 threads and more with less.

No it won't. Intel will never sell an ULV chip at such a low price because it will destroy their whole pricing structure. They could have dropped prices on the SB ULV's but didn't, instead the price of Atom cratered quarter after quarter.

 

[zlatan]

You're mistaken, I'm afraid.

The 2nd Gen Low Power APU is Kabini, 1st Gen SoC is Temash.

Kabini is a SoC. I have a devplatform and it's a one chip solution. I can't tell the specification, but the performance/watt is shocking. The iGPU is amazingly fast.

 

[dbcoopernz]

Shockingly good, I assume you mean?

 

[Haserath]

No it won't. Intel will never sell an ULV chip at such a low price because it will destroy their whole pricing structure. They could have dropped prices on the SB ULV's but didn't, instead the price of Atom cratered quarter after quarter.

TDP wise

 

[itsmydamnation]

I have to agree intel ULV chips are the pick of the crop in terms of leakage from the other X0 million SB/IB/HW chips they sell. They aren't going to sell them cheap and intel wont have any problems sell them at way higher prices so they wont.

It's funny in away jaguar is the perfect chip for amd at the moment, consider:

that bobcats "IPC" for a single thread is about 75% per clock of bulldozer, give a conservative 10% ( which is extremely conservative IMHO) and give it a max base clock of 2ghz. While its not going to win an speed contests, what you will get is a processor capable of handling the very vest majority of laptop/HTPC/budget market/emerging markets. the biggest problem with bobcat based laptops is that it was mainly only found in budget devices, jaguar based should meet the requirements for "standard" laptops especially if Turbo is allowed to full TDP.

That chip will likely have better margins then the current SOI based APU's with there current pricing. We will have to see how far the new Atom will scale but with Haswell going down to 10 watts i think intel have made their atom intentions clear.

Kabini is a SoC. I have a devplatform and it's a one chip solution. I can't tell the specification, but the performance/watt is shocking. The iGPU is amazingly fast.

if you really do have one (seems a few people say they do) then its unlikely to be final silicon given launch isn't until Q2 next year.

 

[zlatan]

Shockingly good, I assume you mean?

Yes, I mean shockingly good.

if you really do have one (seems a few people say they do) then its unlikely to be final silicon given launch isn't until Q2 next year.

I don't exactly know which will be the final revision. This is just a test hardware, so I don't care about it.

 

[itsmydamnation]

can i ask what kind of work you do? or product you work on :awe:

 

[NTMBK]

can i ask what kind of work you do? or product you work on :awe:

He seems to have a lot of knowledge about graphics APIs and tech from his posting history, so I'm going to guess some sort of game developer.

@zlatan I don't suppose you fancy running some benchmarks do you? :thumbsup:

 

[inf64]

If he can't tell the specifications he can't run benchmarks either . But good info nonetheless

 

[inf64]

New info on Richland(6000 series) from AMD's official APU product spec sheet .
We can see that AMD mentions 6000 series in PDF document for the 1st time:

• Power Management
• Multiple low-power states
• AMD PowerNow!™ technology
• System Management Mode (SMM)
• ACPI-compliant, including support for processor performance states (P-states)
• Supports processor power states C0, C1, C1E, C6, and CC6
• Supports sleep states2 including S0, S3, S4, and S5
2 Model 6000 series processors support IOIC with optimized S3 and S4 resume.

• Electrical Interfaces
• DDR3 SDRAM: Compliant with JEDEC DDR3 1.5V, LV-DDR3 1.35V, and UL-DDR3 1.25V SDRAM
specifications3
3 UL-DDR3 1.25V SDRAM is available on selected Model 6000 series processors.

Socket FM2 package
• Two 64-bit DDR3 SDRAM controllers operating at frequencies up to 18664 MT/s (933 MHz) on Model 5000
series processors, and up to 21335 MT/s (1066 MHz) on selected Model 6000 series processors
4 On Model 5000 series processors, 1866 MT/s is available when there is either a single dual-rank, or two
single-rank 1866 MT/s unbuffered DIMMs present per memory channel.
5 On selected Model 6000 series processors, 2133 MT/s is available when there is a single 2133 MT/s
unbuffered DIMM present per memory channel.

We still have no idea what will differentiate 6000 series from 5000 series if they carry the same (x86) core inside. If Richland was indeed done on 28nm node then it would certainly warrant a 6000 model name as it will have some clock increase (~10% is possible along with maybe 3-5% "ipc" increase). GPU part is also a mystery . Is it GCN or still VLIW4? If we knew the node it was being made on it would have made some of these questions easier to answer .

 

[Hans de Vries]

Welcome to the forum!!

Welcome to the forum Hans, your expertise will be really appreciated.

Welcome to the forums Hans de Vries :thumbsup:

Thanks for the welcome guys. My first post took a while

 

[Idontcare]

If he can't tell the specifications he can't run benchmarks either . But good info nonetheless

And to be frank, I wouldn't want him to either.

He needs to keep his paycheck coming, and while there would be a momentary thrill to come from the fame and glory of being the "the man in the know" if he were to leak something to us, that 15 minutes of fame would come with the very big downside of tarnishing his professional credibility for years to come should he be caught out.

Let's not tempt him. I distinctly recall when we had a member, new register of course, who chimed in on a pre-bulldozer discussion thread (a few years before bulldozer was released) and started divulging latency cycles for the new fpu targets in ways that was clearly not kosher. He quickly buttoned up, and IIRC he edited and deleted his posts after a couple days.

We just don't want to goad people into making career-limiting choices to sate our curiosity IMO. All will be known in good time.

 

[IntelUser2000]

So 4 threads vs 2 and generations ahead in manufacturing process...you could say that isn't really all that impressive especially as Brazos probably has it beat in gaming.

But lets humour you for a bit anyway. Take that 4x faster, half it for Kabini's 4 cores. It's now ~2x faster in multithreading. Now remove a bit for higher clocks due to the process gain (don't forget that TSMC's 40nm didn't even have HKMG, but the 28nm does).

4x is in average for a real world application while 2x cores bring 85-90%. Thar means the gap even with twice the cores and IPC improvement ends up around 2x.

Oh, for graphics. ULV IVB is on par or better than even ULV Trinity. Considering how Jaguar's GPU has still less SP's than the lowest Trinity, I think you should revise your expectations.

Bar doesn't stay still either.

They are selling Celeron and Pentium derivatives for maybe 50 dollars more device to device, compared to Brazos systems out there.

Haswell brings 15W to mainstream chips meaning it'll be cheaper than ones today.

 

[Centauri]

Enlighten me; Rumors were that Kaveri is dead, yet AMD rebuffed those rumors a few weeks ago.

Assuming, however, that Kaveri is dead, what is there to look forward to next year on FM2? Because I had it in my head to drop-in whatever AMD releases next year for FM2.

 

[Homeles]

Enlighten me; Rumors were that Kaveri is dead, yet AMD rebuffed those rumors a few weeks ago.

Assuming, however, that Kaveri is dead, what is there to look forward to next year on FM2? Because I had it in my head to drop-in whatever AMD releases next year for FM2.

Richland is what's coming next year.

 

[inf64]

Enlighten me; Rumors were that Kaveri is dead, yet AMD rebuffed those rumors a few weeks ago.

Assuming, however, that Kaveri is dead, what is there to look forward to next year on FM2? Because I had it in my head to drop-in whatever AMD releases next year for FM2.

Kaveri is alive but it's launching ~H1 2014 instead of H1 2013. Richland is (maybe 28nm) Piledriver with updated GPU (GCN?) launching in place of Kaveri. Both Kaveri and Richland should be FM2 compatible (2 placeholders on AMD's slide for FM2 successors to Trinity).

My guess is that AMD delayed Kaveri to beef up the GPU portion of the chip in response to Haswell's projected GPU performance. CPU side can't be redesigned significantly in ~6-8 months ( it can but not to affect performance in any significant way). That's why I think the reason for delay is GPU related and not CPU related.

 

[beginner99]

the biggest problem with bobcat based laptops is that it was mainly only found in budget devices, jaguar based should meet the requirements for "standard" laptops especially if Turbo is allowed to full TDP.

The problem for brazos (and llano/trinity) is that there are laptops with Intel cpu that offer better price/performance. There are laptops with pentiums that are at the same price than brazos offerings and top end trinity (the ones with full GPU) sells for about the same as I3 + dedicated mobile GPU.

Besides that the GPU in AMDs chips are wasted die space for like 90% of users (probably more). Even i don't play games on my laptop and HD3000 it's fine for anything else.

 

[itsmydamnation]

The problem for brazos (and llano/trinity) is that there are laptops with Intel cpu that offer better price/performance. There are laptops with pentiums that are at the same price than brazos offerings and top end trinity (the ones with full GPU) sells for about the same as I3 + dedicated mobile GPU.

right now that might be true, but it wasn't for a long time, remember bobcat is two years old now. When bobcat came out intels answer was to massively reduce atom pricing, they didn't have a processor in that price/performance segment.

 

[IntelUser2000]

It looks like a good chip, but there's nothing that makes it stand out. It'll have to play between rock(Clover Trail) and a hard place(Core).

There's a technical reason for that. Care to guess why?

So anyone want to answer this? There's a simple name for it too, not longwinded technical explanation.