Richland & Kabini rumours

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by dbcoopernz, Dec 27, 2012.

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  1. IntelUser2000

    IntelUser2000 Elite Member

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    Bzzzt... wrong answer.

    Try again, looking back on what I said. I feel based on your response it won't be so obvious to you.

    Also, the dual core ULV Ivy Bridge is nearly 4 times faster than Brazos in multi-threaded application.
     
  2. Abwx

    Abwx Diamond Member

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    I wasnt particularly adressing your guesses...


    Perhaps , but Brazos is a 40nm 2C while IB has HT ,
    what about the comparison with a 4C Kabini that is
    supposed to have 25% better ST perfs than Brazos ?.

    IB 2C/4T may still be 40-50% faster in MT but this wont be
    a decisive advantage once price/perf ratio is introduced
    in the equation.
     
  3. pablo87

    pablo87 Senior member

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    Thanks for the info. Btw, where can this part be purchased, what is the price point? Are these harvested parts or native GPU less Trinity's?

    I went to newegg.com and nothing.
     
  4. pablo87

    pablo87 Senior member

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    Thanks, well Denmark is such a small country and so efficient I can believe that its next day.

    Unfortunately I'm in the US and usually buy from newegg and they do not show this part being available...maybe the ball got dropped during the layoffs? :oops:
     
  5. SiliconWars

    SiliconWars Platinum Member

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    So 4 threads vs 2 and generations ahead in manufacturing process...you could say that isn't really all that impressive especially as Brazos probably has it beat in gaming.

    But lets humour you for a bit anyway. Take that 4x faster, half it for Kabini's 4 cores. It's now ~2x faster in multithreading. Now remove a bit for higher clocks due to the process gain (don't forget that TSMC's 40nm didn't even have HKMG, but the 28nm does). Add a bit more for IPC gain - Let's say it's a 2 GHz quad core then?

    I guess the ULV ivy bridge is going to be some 60-70% faster in multithreading while getting thrashed in gaming. Not that it matters, because there is no way intel will make or sell ULV's in the tens of millions of units, unlike Kabini which will surely go on to sell 30+ million in it's first year.

    Find another champion - your ULV isn't it and it will never be in the same class. Think Atom, that's your lot just like it was with Brazos and it is the ONLY chip intel can properly go head to head with against Kabini.
     
    #105 SiliconWars, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
  6. Haserath

    Haserath Senior member

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    It will be going up against ULV Haswell. Which boosts that back up to about 2x with 4 threads and more with less.

    Atom is going to be phone only soon. That's the only place Intel would have a difficult time getting core into.

    AMD can't compete on power efficiency with core, but they can try the cheap solution with Kabini's platform. Only thanks to Intel being smart about pricing.
     
  7. SiliconWars

    SiliconWars Platinum Member

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    No it won't. Intel will never sell an ULV chip at such a low price because it will destroy their whole pricing structure. They could have dropped prices on the SB ULV's but didn't, instead the price of Atom cratered quarter after quarter.
     
  8. zlatan

    zlatan Senior member

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    Kabini is a SoC. I have a devplatform and it's a one chip solution. I can't tell the specification, but the performance/watt is shocking. The iGPU is amazingly fast.
     
  9. dbcoopernz

    dbcoopernz Member

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    Shockingly good, I assume you mean?
     
  10. Haserath

    Haserath Senior member

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    TDP wise
     
  11. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Golden Member

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    I have to agree intel ULV chips are the pick of the crop in terms of leakage from the other X0 million SB/IB/HW chips they sell. They aren't going to sell them cheap and intel wont have any problems sell them at way higher prices so they wont.

    It's funny in away jaguar is the perfect chip for amd at the moment, consider:

    that bobcats "IPC" for a single thread is about 75% per clock of bulldozer, give a conservative 10% ( which is extremely conservative IMHO) and give it a max base clock of 2ghz. While its not going to win an speed contests, what you will get is a processor capable of handling the very vest majority of laptop/HTPC/budget market/emerging markets. the biggest problem with bobcat based laptops is that it was mainly only found in budget devices, jaguar based should meet the requirements for "standard" laptops especially if Turbo is allowed to full TDP.

    That chip will likely have better margins then the current SOI based APU's with there current pricing. We will have to see how far the new Atom will scale but with Haswell going down to 10 watts i think intel have made their atom intentions clear.


    if you really do have one (seems a few people say they do) then its unlikely to be final silicon given launch isn't until Q2 next year.
     
    #111 itsmydamnation, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  12. zlatan

    zlatan Senior member

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    Yes, I mean shockingly good. :)

    I don't exactly know which will be the final revision. This is just a test hardware, so I don't care about it.
     
  13. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Golden Member

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    can i ask what kind of work you do? or product you work on :awe:
     
  14. NTMBK

    NTMBK Diamond Member

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    He seems to have a lot of knowledge about graphics APIs and tech from his posting history, so I'm going to guess some sort of game developer.

    @zlatan I don't suppose you fancy running some benchmarks do you? :thumbsup:
     
  15. inf64

    inf64 Platinum Member

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    If he can't tell the specifications he can't run benchmarks either ;). But good info nonetheless :)
     
  16. inf64

    inf64 Platinum Member

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    New info on Richland(6000 series) from AMD's official APU product spec sheet :).
    We can see that AMD mentions 6000 series in PDF document for the 1st time:
    We still have no idea what will differentiate 6000 series from 5000 series if they carry the same (x86) core inside. If Richland was indeed done on 28nm node then it would certainly warrant a 6000 model name as it will have some clock increase (~10% is possible along with maybe 3-5% "ipc" increase). GPU part is also a mystery . Is it GCN or still VLIW4? If we knew the node it was being made on it would have made some of these questions easier to answer ;).
     
    #116 inf64, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  17. Hans de Vries

    Hans de Vries Member

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    Thanks for the welcome guys. My first post took a while :)
     
  18. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    And to be frank, I wouldn't want him to either.

    He needs to keep his paycheck coming, and while there would be a momentary thrill to come from the fame and glory of being the "the man in the know" if he were to leak something to us, that 15 minutes of fame would come with the very big downside of tarnishing his professional credibility for years to come should he be caught out.

    Let's not tempt him. I distinctly recall when we had a member, new register of course, who chimed in on a pre-bulldozer discussion thread (a few years before bulldozer was released) and started divulging latency cycles for the new fpu targets in ways that was clearly not kosher. He quickly buttoned up, and IIRC he edited and deleted his posts after a couple days.

    We just don't want to goad people into making career-limiting choices to sate our curiosity IMO. All will be known in good time.
     
  19. IntelUser2000

    IntelUser2000 Elite Member

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    4x is in average for a real world application while 2x cores bring 85-90%. Thar means the gap even with twice the cores and IPC improvement ends up around 2x.

    Oh, for graphics. ULV IVB is on par or better than even ULV Trinity. Considering how Jaguar's GPU has still less SP's than the lowest Trinity, I think you should revise your expectations.

    Bar doesn't stay still either.

    They are selling Celeron and Pentium derivatives for maybe 50 dollars more device to device, compared to Brazos systems out there.

    Haswell brings 15W to mainstream chips meaning it'll be cheaper than ones today.
     
    #119 IntelUser2000, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  20. Centauri

    Centauri Golden Member

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    Enlighten me; Rumors were that Kaveri is dead, yet AMD rebuffed those rumors a few weeks ago.

    Assuming, however, that Kaveri is dead, what is there to look forward to next year on FM2? Because I had it in my head to drop-in whatever AMD releases next year for FM2.
     
  21. Homeles

    Homeles Platinum Member

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    Richland is what's coming next year.
     
  22. inf64

    inf64 Platinum Member

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    Kaveri is alive but it's launching ~H1 2014 instead of H1 2013. Richland is (maybe 28nm) Piledriver with updated GPU (GCN?) launching in place of Kaveri. Both Kaveri and Richland should be FM2 compatible (2 placeholders on AMD's slide for FM2 successors to Trinity).

    My guess is that AMD delayed Kaveri to beef up the GPU portion of the chip in response to Haswell's projected GPU performance. CPU side can't be redesigned significantly in ~6-8 months ( it can but not to affect performance in any significant way). That's why I think the reason for delay is GPU related and not CPU related.
     
    #122 inf64, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  23. beginner99

    beginner99 Platinum Member

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    The problem for brazos (and llano/trinity) is that there are laptops with Intel cpu that offer better price/performance. There are laptops with pentiums that are at the same price than brazos offerings and top end trinity (the ones with full GPU) sells for about the same as I3 + dedicated mobile GPU.

    Besides that the GPU in AMDs chips are wasted die space for like 90% of users (probably more). Even i don't play games on my laptop and HD3000 it's fine for anything else.
     
  24. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Golden Member

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    right now that might be true, but it wasn't for a long time, remember bobcat is two years old now. When bobcat came out intels answer was to massively reduce atom pricing, they didn't have a processor in that price/performance segment.
     
  25. IntelUser2000

    IntelUser2000 Elite Member

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    So anyone want to answer this? There's a simple name for it too, not longwinded technical explanation.
     
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