Richland & Kabini rumours

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by dbcoopernz, Dec 27, 2012.

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  1. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    I have every expectation it will be great.

    But I'm guarded in terms of setting my expectations as to how great it will actually be when it is sitting on a board surrounded by other things that are sucking down the juice.

    I distinctly remember Intel making a big deal out of how their transition from dynamic to static CMOS for nehalem was going to be the cat's meow and power was going to go down like mad. Meh, not so much once the chips showed up at Newegg and people could test them. We haven't heard Intel crow about their teh awesome Static CMOS ever since.

    Likewise when it was "behold, I bring the world a gift of power-sipping peace that the Pope has christened 'Atom' :eek:"...only it sat in a platform that sucked down the juice and the world+dog collectively muttered a "meh" in unison.

    And then I remember how clarkdale was vaunted by early reviewers as the second coming of the power-sipping messiah, laptops were going to run for 10hrs, blah blah blah...only it didn't really turn out that awesome for John Q Public when they got their DELL laptop delivered by fedex.

    And even now we are in the "3D xtor" age, so damn advanced that the aliens are actually stealing our tech to improve their own now, only when you pop one into a computer to replace an elderly 32nm sandy bridge with its old skool planar xtors (pffft, grandpa xtor alert :rolleyes:) the power savings isn't exactly otherworldly. It is about what you'd expect for any given node shrink. Meets expectations.

    So I am all for Intel "haswell'ing the market" but we've been down this road before. Take everything that is said and cut it in half (or double it, whichever generates a less-flattering number for the given metric) and that is very likely to be the reality IMO.

    Yes it will be better than anything else on the planet, alien tech included, but I have my reservations in accepting the notion that it will truly be "all that and a bag of chips". :colbert:
     
  2. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    This is nolonger about core size Its about efficiency. The power levels were discussing and Intel allready proving its capability in Soc with Medfield I see know logical explanation for conclusion based on already know Facts .
     
  3. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    Drink more. Or less. And all will become absolutely positively crystal clear. Maybe.
     
  4. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    That was than Medfield is now soon theZ2580 the last of a breed . As Intel goes OoO and 4 cores without ht. The wagons are circled and the indians have all the bullets No way out Silvermont takeing share were haswell will not go.
     
  5. piesquared

    piesquared Golden Member

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    Richland's healthy increase in perf/watt should bridge the gap until the big gun shows up in what looks like sometime Q4 when Kaveri with HSA takes over. With Kabini slotting in between Richland/Kaveri and Temash, no wonder AMD seems so confident.

    Kevin Lensing, Director of AMD’s Notebook Product Line, exuded a quiet confidence at a briefing at the 2013 CES show

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2024...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
     
  6. CTho9305

    CTho9305 Elite Member

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    Intel has a history of FUDing heavily in any market they don't want to grow. They FUDed PA RISC/Alpha to death with the upcoming super-awesome Itanium. They FUDed OLPC to near-death with Classmate PC. They're FUDing ARM now to keep people waiting for the next great x86 that's right around the corner and going to be twice as fast at half the power (and yet so far, by the time you can actually buy something, well, I only know one person who has an Atom-based phone, and he bought it because it had the best screen-size-per-dollar).

    This forum is much easier to read if you add a very small set of users to your ignore list...unfortunately you have to be logged in to benefit from that feature.
     
  7. MightyMalus

    MightyMalus Senior member

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    This so called low 7 watt haswell showing its GT3 "capabilities".

    You mean the same one shown pushing out 15watt IVB graphics at the same FPS on that dragon model benchmark?(Uniengine?)
    Yes, I saw those. Not impressed. And actually, I think that Haswell was the 10watt one.

    You know what other thing Intel has NOT going for them in their iGPU's? Drivers.

    What else? Price. You say cheap. I ask, how cheap?
    You know how Intel could have'd rocked the tablet market? Scaling Atom.

    I like AMD's line up. Seems focused. Sounds smart.
    Some people might hate this next comment, but, I am glad that I did not see anything "Vishera". AMD needs to focus on HSA and APU's. That is what they are incredible at.
     
  8. piesquared

    piesquared Golden Member

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  9. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    I was referring to the three Jaguar cores vs one Llano.
     
  10. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    Even in 32nm you could fit almost three(3) jaguar cores in the same space as one Llano core.
     
  11. CTho9305

    CTho9305 Elite Member

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    Do you have A15, Krait, and Apple A6 core numbers? From the A6 die shot I'm swagging a little over 4mm^2 on 32nm for a single core.
     
  12. MightyMalus

    MightyMalus Senior member

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    Hard to compare apples(no pun intended) to oranges.

    For an x86 core, its pretty small.
     
  13. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Golden Member

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  14. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    The new Intel 900 phone isn't fuded anything its a real product that kicks butt.
     
  15. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    The Demo of the haswell GT3 running against IVb with a NV650m looks much better and seems to be running faster frames Full HD performance setting. same game
     
    #665 Nemesis 1, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  16. podspi

    podspi Golden Member

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    Does anybody actually play Dirt 3, or is it just used to show off wimpy iGPUs? :D

    Seriously though, that is very impressive. Temash is looking like it is pretty good. I still say no S0ix is a bummer though.
     
  17. beginner99

    beginner99 Platinum Member

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    Give me a use-case that needs a lot of GPU power and makes sense to do on a tablet?

    Video stuff is dedicated on SOCs and for UI rendering / acceleration, hell you don't need that much. Even intel HD 2000 is overpowered for that.
     
  18. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    You clearly have head in clouds . Atom scaling= Silvermont . Trying to sell the fact intel is hyping and AMD is not . Is a fantasy. Intel has demo of GT3 going up against NV 650m and intel looks rather good .
     
  19. NTMBK

    NTMBK Diamond Member

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    Driving high res displays, for a start. Apparently even HD4000 graphics make for a jerky experience on the 13" Macbook Pro with Retina:

    http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/1/3585082/13-inch-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review

    And Vizio have explicitly said that they went with Hondo for their 1080p tablet because Clover Trail couldn't drive the display satisfactorily: http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/38...-8-tablet-hands-on-with-the-amd-powered-1080p

    The iPad 4 already has a 2048×1536 screen. If Windows 8 tablets want to compete against that, they're going to need beefy graphics.

    And this isn't even touching on gaming...
     
  20. NTMBK

    NTMBK Diamond Member

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    Yeah, that GT3e demo was pretty impressive (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6600/...rformance-compared-to-nvidias-geforce-gt-650m , if anyone missed it)! That embedded DRAM really makes a difference, it seems. Intel only promised that level of performance in a laptop chassis though, so expect them to have to tone down the performance a lot to get it to fit into a tablet level TDP.
     
    #670 NTMBK, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  21. The Alias

    The Alias Senior member

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    wait ... gt3's in a tablet ?

    It's not so you're comparing a intel's gt3 vs amd's tablet soc .... *facepalm*

    for your information intel's valleyview (bay trail) will have only 4 execution unit's compared to gt3's 40
     
    #671 The Alias, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  22. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    Oh yeah, I totally agree :thumbsup:

    I remember the long uphill battle that was the 64bit transition on the desktop, Intel was dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century in taking AMD's lead on x86-64.

    And because of Intel's market dominance, Microsoft was equally slow and resistant to the notion of getting a fully vetted and functional 64bit to market :(

    I consider Win7 x64 to really be the first 64bit consumer windows OS that was treated as being on-par with its 32bit sibling. Even 64bit Vista had its less-polished aspects compared to 32bit Vista. That would not have happened in my opinion if Intel had been onboard with 64bit as early as AMD was, because if they were then they would have been pushing Microsoft to have have Vista (or even possibly XP) 64-bit done and done at the time...instead of the essentially beta-ware that AMD had to try and upsell their 64bit processors with.

    Careful there, that same thinking also leads you to observe and conclude that had AMD just substituted Llano cores for Bulldozer cores then they would have had much better IPC and at a much lower development cost versus what they elected to do...there are no shortage of opportunities to second-guess the seemingly silly decisions AMD's upper management made over the past 5-6 yrs.

    I have long been a proponent of AMD leveraging their Brazos line (be it Brazos, Hondo, Wichita, Jaguar, etc) to create a veritable "sea of cores" for server apps that are highly threaded (like cloud processing, VM, and course-grained HPC) - akin to Intel's Phi. JFAMD was steadfast in saying it wouldn't fly, but I think we all can see the writing is on the wall in terms of where AMD could go with this technology should they so choose.
     
  23. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    These Amd products aren't out yet . Intel new products aren't out yet , Yet you want to ignor what the GT3 can do. You would rather compare to old Intel product that says it all.
    I want to compare to old intel not new . Even tho information is available on intels new products with demos . Temash is going against 2 intel products . The Haswell SoC dual core and the Silvermont . Haswell will use MAYBE slightly more power depends on SOiX. Likely 30 dollars more for the core and offer all around better performance including graphics . The Silvermont will offer way less power useage Alot less massive amount . As for intels new OoO for Silvermont I will wait on performance . But I would say better than temash in compute but not in graphics at a lower price than Temash . Temash is setting in no mans land
     
    #673 Nemesis 1, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  24. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    The 7 watt haswell is GT3 intel needs only get it to market. Its only 2 cores . I really thought intel would have to go single core with GT3 to get to tablet level its a nice surprise Yes I know what the demo said , This was not the haswell Soc chip. But that doesn't change MY expectations
     
    #674 Nemesis 1, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  25. nehalem256

    nehalem256 Lifer

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    Given the Bulldozer seems to very thermally constrained to hit the high clock speeds it was designed for in the high core server environment it would seem it would make much more sense to use a core designed to be small and have low power consumption.

    Especially given that the IPC of Jaguar is likely to be very close to Bulldozer.

    It looks like a 2.8GHz Piledriver Opteron with 16 cores takes 140W

    Say a Quad core 1.8 Jaguar takes 18W with GPU

    Assuming linear scaling a 16 core Jaguar would take 72W. And this is likely to be high since you don't need to quadruple the GPU.
     
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