- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,080
- 136
Rich Evans is not stupid.
Rich Evans said Hollywood is creatively bankrupt.
- Thread starter shortylickens
- Start date
Rich Evans is not stupid.
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,080
- 136
They're smart. They make billions of dollars. They know the average consumer spends WAY more money on nostalgia than originality.
Torn Mind
Lifer
- Nov 25, 2012
- 12,004
- 2,748
- 136
Up to a point. People who hold their actually well done works close to their heart have developed an attachment to these old properties Disney developed in house or acquired; they love the old content so much they're starved like dogs for that nostalgia. However, the new generations will not find their modern uninspired work works that compelling for yet another remake when they have the money to spend.
Star Wars is dead. One unofficial remake, one soap opera that tells a story that's portrays bad people on the good guys' side as good, and a movie of desperation by the utterly uncreative Abrams, along with the original trio official dead in the story, all dead because an cheat code level easy-to-kill Gollum corrupted a petulant emo teenager. Holdo might be an accidentally good unheroic character because represents very well many men or women who hold the power of some organization and fuck things up for the little people beneath her; and covers her tracks for posterity. Perhaps a politician, sports team owner, coach, etc. She could be the splitting image of Josh McDaniels on the Broncos and Brandon Marshall is the Poe, except he couldn't get back what was there with him, Cutler, etc.
Something like Who Framed Roger Rabbit is not coming out modern Disney. Or even movies like Enemy of the State or Armageddon have a little "something" to them.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 98,836
- 17,309
- 126
That is not the issue, there are plenty of good source material to make movies from. But studios are more concerned about making money than making good movies.
HomerJS
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2002
- 38,093
- 30,877
- 136
Scarpozzi
Lifer
- Jun 13, 2000
- 26,391
- 1,780
- 126
I want to see someone do reboots of silent movies. That might be fresh and exciting.
mikeymikec
Lifer
- May 19, 2011
- 19,963
- 14,275
- 136
While I agree that copyright laws need to be fixed, I don't think what you describe is a logical result. If the current problem that this topic is about is unoriginality, then 'fixing copyright laws' is likely to also make unoriginality more rampant.
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,080
- 136
yeah but even their old properties are almost all unoriginal ideas.
The only thing original they came up with was Fantasia, and even that had a couple scenes made with ideas from somewhere else. And they didnt come up with Toy Story. Somebody else did and they simply took it and repackaged it in their theme.
Walt Disney figured out a long time ago nostalgia sells better. Its more comforting and people like how it makes them feel. Originality can be scary. It challenges the way you think, makes you realize things you dont wanna know.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 51,193
- 43,340
- 136
"Hollywood" is what fuels all the streamers making content people like. The reasons for the decline of creative risk on the part of the major studios is multifaceted and can't really be just chalked up to one cause but I will say the decline in moviegoing which long preceded this should be recognized as a culprit also.
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,080
- 136
Same basic problem. The average consumer is too afraid of anything that challenges their brain. People always loved superhero movies but for the longest time the technology just couldnt let them have all the big adventures they were having in the comics. When Iron Man broke that trend the shit started to explode. And once the industry realized people were gobbling it up like oreo ice cream they started throwing everything out there. Thats why we have hundreds of movies and dozens of TV shows dedicated to every weird ass comic book loser you've never heard of.
The problem of course is the quality suffers. Go watch Superman and the watch Man of Steel (if you can get thru it). You'll notice one of them sticks in your brain a lot longer than the other one.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 51,193
- 43,340
- 136
The success of Blade in 1998 gave enough confidence to launch X-Men and get the looong gestating Spider-Man movie into production.
Iron Man is when Marvel started doing it for themselves, of course to great success. There were many other very successful superhero films before (and even in) 2008. It wasn't even the highest grossing superhero movie of the year.
MrSquished
Lifer
- Jan 14, 2013
- 25,873
- 24,212
- 136
Definitely true in many ways. The market/consumer is also the culprit. Sometimes they are just wanting to deliver stuff to the lowest common denominator or close to that because it's all about revenue, and that's what the market will take. There have been numerous great films over the last couple decades that were slower paced, more serious and deeper thinking movies that just don't blow up the box office and never will. People like explosions, shiny things and goofy romance.
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
- Feb 14, 2004
- 50,023
- 6,316
- 136
He is wrong:
1. Hollywood is not monolithic. No single entity owns Hollywood, which means there are studios who make recycled garbage & studios out there making fun stuff. Re: District 9, Trollhunter (the Norwegian one), etc.
2. Technically, everything is a remix. The only story that exists is "a stranger comes to town" (ex. some droids show up to Tatooine in Star Wars, the girl shows up in Free Guy, etc.), which then multiplies out from there (maybe it's reversed & the protagonist goes out into a strange place instead, like in Ringo). Therefore, everything is a ripoff. This leads into my "chicken theory" about movies: chicken is chicken. No one wants it under-baked (raw) or over-baked (tough & chewy); we want it well-done. There are a million different ways to make chicken (chicken wings, chicken parm, chicken nuggets, etc.) & we like to have repeat experiences, even if the implementation in the moment is different (ex. Popeye's new nuggest vs. McDonald's nuggets). But at the end of the day, it's all the same thing: a story created for entertainment (or infotainment).
3. What movies & shows & shorts that exist in the world of movies & streaming is largely due to available budgets, because movies are so expensive to make these days (studio movies start out at $100 million & go up to $300 million easily!). The Lion King CGI remake, which is the same story as the original, made $1 billion in just 19 days. End users care about the story; studios care about the bottom line.
Ultimately, it's like chicken: we want a nice meal with a fun spin on it to enjoy. The reality is that everything is rehashed, from movies to music to books to art, but the way we "present the food" or rather "tell the story" makes all the difference in the world! Just go & look at how good shows like Breaking Bad were...it's entirely possible to present an existing idea in a novel way to make the story unique & fun (and in this case, the "stranger" that comes into town is Walt's cancer, which causes the protagonist to need to react & thus sets the story in motion!) without being rehashed garbage or boring entertainment!
1. Hollywood is not monolithic. No single entity owns Hollywood, which means there are studios who make recycled garbage & studios out there making fun stuff. Re: District 9, Trollhunter (the Norwegian one), etc.
2. Technically, everything is a remix. The only story that exists is "a stranger comes to town" (ex. some droids show up to Tatooine in Star Wars, the girl shows up in Free Guy, etc.), which then multiplies out from there (maybe it's reversed & the protagonist goes out into a strange place instead, like in Ringo). Therefore, everything is a ripoff. This leads into my "chicken theory" about movies: chicken is chicken. No one wants it under-baked (raw) or over-baked (tough & chewy); we want it well-done. There are a million different ways to make chicken (chicken wings, chicken parm, chicken nuggets, etc.) & we like to have repeat experiences, even if the implementation in the moment is different (ex. Popeye's new nuggest vs. McDonald's nuggets). But at the end of the day, it's all the same thing: a story created for entertainment (or infotainment).
3. What movies & shows & shorts that exist in the world of movies & streaming is largely due to available budgets, because movies are so expensive to make these days (studio movies start out at $100 million & go up to $300 million easily!). The Lion King CGI remake, which is the same story as the original, made $1 billion in just 19 days. End users care about the story; studios care about the bottom line.
Ultimately, it's like chicken: we want a nice meal with a fun spin on it to enjoy. The reality is that everything is rehashed, from movies to music to books to art, but the way we "present the food" or rather "tell the story" makes all the difference in the world! Just go & look at how good shows like Breaking Bad were...it's entirely possible to present an existing idea in a novel way to make the story unique & fun (and in this case, the "stranger" that comes into town is Walt's cancer, which causes the protagonist to need to react & thus sets the story in motion!) without being rehashed garbage or boring entertainment!
Last edited:
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,080
- 136
And, by the worlds biggest coincidence, The Critical Drinker has a new vid:
Torn Mind
Lifer
- Nov 25, 2012
- 12,004
- 2,748
- 136
Frozen the movie was actually quite original since it really doesn't follow the original boom story. There was plenty of figuring before making the Elsa that showed up in the films. And Hans might have been accidentally brilliant. They might not have realized it, but he is a G-rated Francis Underwood/Francis Uruqhart from House of Cards.yeah but even their old properties are almost all unoriginal ideas.
The only thing original they came up with was Fantasia, and even that had a couple scenes made with ideas from somewhere else. And they didnt come up with Toy Story. Somebody else did and they simply took it and repackaged it in their theme.
Walt Disney figured out a long time ago nostalgia sells better. Its more comforting and people like how it makes them feel. Originality can be scary. It challenges the way you think, makes you realize things you dont wanna know.
nakedfrog
No Lifer
- Apr 3, 2001
- 61,143
- 16,612
- 136
"Movie was quite original"
"Character from movie is effectively the same character as one from this other media"
Mother!, The Fountain.
It's possible to create new content, it's just hard, and rare wonders don't make lots of bank for the studios. They need cruft, and humans need entertainment, lest we descend into inhuman chaos. Thus we consume.
Torn Mind
Lifer
- Nov 25, 2012
- 12,004
- 2,748
- 136
I realize that. The plot is nothing like the book it is based on though; they deviated big time.
I doubt they intended it that way. It's kind of like convergent evolution in animals, where their exteriors look similar but their genetic history is different. Hans was just supposed to be a reversal of Prince Charming types. But he did much more than the douche prince in Aladdin, who only served to establish class differences and trigger Aladdin's insecurity.
Weaving that character into the primary plot of two sisters getting it back together takes a level of skill. House of Cards has Francis as the villainous or anti-hero protagonist.
The parallels of Hans and Francis are striking. The murder of Peter Russo is a lot like leaving Anna to freeze to death; Francis/Hans did something to trigger the pathway to death but left no evidence behind. Then the execution of Elsa under false grounds would be presented officially as a righteous act of the state. Zoe Barnes was shoved into the train but the arbiters who determine how she died put down suicide. Thus the perpetrator is not even suspected of wrongdoing.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 39,959
- 9,639
- 136
I have no idea who Rich Evans is but I never expect much from Hollywood movies. I will only watch one if I have good reason to believe it's worthy. It happens.
I miss Rotten Tomatoes forums, which they killed, and I think it was because their revenue source is the major studios. They want to push their money making new movies, not popularize good cinema, so the forums were strangled. I learned a lot there, so many cinema buffs posted to the nines. Must be millions of great posts that went up in smoke.
Some of the originals are very watchable still to say the least. Chaplin, Keaton...
I miss Rotten Tomatoes forums, which they killed, and I think it was because their revenue source is the major studios. They want to push their money making new movies, not popularize good cinema, so the forums were strangled. I learned a lot there, so many cinema buffs posted to the nines. Must be millions of great posts that went up in smoke.
Last edited:
DigDog
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2011
- 14,274
- 2,735
- 126
.. is there anything to add?
Hollywood has been *creatively bankrupt* even in those years when good films were being made. Some crazy geniuses sneaked through the net and made the great films we worship today, but even then those who bankrolled the films where greedy incompetent fucks who only cared about a guaranteed profit, which is NOT common in filmmaking, even with skilled directors. A number of great, fairly liberal studios have been bankrupted by failures that should have worked, on paper. In the fucking 40s studios were already trying to pump out as many cookie-cutter films as they could because, creativity does not always reflect into profit.
Saying that hollywood is creatively bankrupt is just stating the obvious. The problem that modern flops are having is much more profund, it's the distortion of what is considered a good film. Everyone knows what a bad cash grab is, but never in my youth did i have to fight so hard to argue what a GOOD film is.
Hollywood has been *creatively bankrupt* even in those years when good films were being made. Some crazy geniuses sneaked through the net and made the great films we worship today, but even then those who bankrolled the films where greedy incompetent fucks who only cared about a guaranteed profit, which is NOT common in filmmaking, even with skilled directors. A number of great, fairly liberal studios have been bankrupted by failures that should have worked, on paper. In the fucking 40s studios were already trying to pump out as many cookie-cutter films as they could because, creativity does not always reflect into profit.
Saying that hollywood is creatively bankrupt is just stating the obvious. The problem that modern flops are having is much more profund, it's the distortion of what is considered a good film. Everyone knows what a bad cash grab is, but never in my youth did i have to fight so hard to argue what a GOOD film is.
Lost_in_the_HTTP
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2019
- 13,160
- 7,833
- 136
Cuppla pointz .....
It's been said that there are only a dozen or so truly different story lines and that virtually every book, song, movie and TV show ever made, filmed, written or sung is some variation or combination of those.
For me, what broke action movies is CGI. I don't care how well it's done, it just looks fake. Once the real life stunts stopped (probably due to lawyers and insurance companies) it was over.
Even the camera moving around a miniature model (50s and 60s SciFi) looks better.
And to me, video doesn't have the same flavor as film. Sort of the streaming digital vs vinyl LP thing.
It's been said that there are only a dozen or so truly different story lines and that virtually every book, song, movie and TV show ever made, filmed, written or sung is some variation or combination of those.
For me, what broke action movies is CGI. I don't care how well it's done, it just looks fake. Once the real life stunts stopped (probably due to lawyers and insurance companies) it was over.
Even the camera moving around a miniature model (50s and 60s SciFi) looks better.
And to me, video doesn't have the same flavor as film. Sort of the streaming digital vs vinyl LP thing.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 20K
-
-
-
Facebook
Twitter