Rice says French need to STFU and get in line with the rest of the plebes

[Moonbeam]

I wish the article said something. It was pretty shallow and uninformative. What really is the French vision and what really is ours, or hers. The danger of a single dominant doctrine is that truth can't be doctrinized. A doctrine, by its nature, is always wrong.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I wish the article said something. It was pretty shallow and uninformative. What really is the French vision and what really is ours, or hers. The danger of a single dominant doctrine is that truth can't be doctrinized. A doctrine, by its nature, is always wrong.

Well it may have indicated that she is gonna be sec state in '04 if Bush wins..

 

[Moonbeam]

Then Powell should run as an independent.

 

[drewshin]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: freegeeks

she is the Rodney King of politics, basically she said "can't we all just get along"..


IMHO someday the world will live free and share common laws and rights similar to the American system I am so fortunate to live under, why would that be such a bad thing? Fair and equal trade, global min. wage, everyone having a voice in their representation would go a long way......

please. Stop pretending that the USA is the only democracy in the world where people have it good.

I pointed out the one word you apparently missed in your rush to bias....

Many more come to mind, they are also similar to the US.....

Dudd, capitalism and democracy and are often at odds with each other, but I wouldn't have it any other way personally....

wow, that was some amazing turnaround on the subject, going from one thing to something completely different and unrelated

that's the way ali-baba-star does things so people dont realize that he's got nothing to say. he loves to point out the shortcomings of other countries, while blissfully imagining that nothing bad could go on in his.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Well it may have indicated that she is gonna be sec state in '04 if Bush wins..

There's little doubt in my mind that Powell is persona non grata 2 seconds after Bush's re-election.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Actually this dream has legs. If the EU stood with the US . . . OK behind the US . . . the combined geopolitical, economic, and military power would dwarf almost any coalition short of a SinoRussoNippoIndo coalition. A united US/EU would not only control much of their respective hemispheres but its only a matter of time before they either bring the Middle East into the fold . . . or convert the region into friendlier regimes by any means necessary. Africa is in such disarray that recolonization wouldn't require much effort.

Under such a scenario . . . not only is resistance futile . . . it would pay big time to walk lockstep with the Big Dog. All you need is right of center leadership in the UK (on the way thnx to Blair's Blunder), right of center leadership in Germany (10% unemployment spells drouble for Schroeder), and right of center leadership in France (Chirac is a fascist in socialist vetements).

the problem with this theory is that the Bush administration is doing a good job by pissing of the EU, Russia, etc ...

it's the french that don't want to play ball. they want the EU to rival the US, which is insanse condiering all the problems a rivalry could bring about and inhibit. THe french are arrogant assholes that are using the EU to make them punch above their weight.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

she is the Rodney King of politics, basically she said "can't we all just get along"..


IMHO someday the world will live free and share common laws and rights similar to the American system I am so fortunate to live under, why would that be such a bad thing? Fair and equal trade, global min. wage, everyone having a voice in their representation would go a long way......

In my very limited experience, she sounded "neocon" and Dari-istic to me.

Having read a lot of what Dari believes - I don't see the land of milk of honey the neocons do.

Have a look at my responses in this thread for my views.

Cheers,

Andy

Fencer, I strongly urge you to read Andrew Moravcsik's latest article on relations between the European Union and the United States: Striking A New Transatlantic Bargain. It is at foreignaffairs.org

Furthermore, if you think the french have the best interests of Europe at heart, as opposed to their own, you must still be in that state of quagmire, chagrined, and adriftness since the british lost their empire. Unlike many of the intellectuals from Great Britain, you don't seem to understand how the world really works. Basically, it doesn't work like the theory of the EU dictates, where many nations come together for the bettering of mankind. In reality, France (with the helpful influence of Germany) dictates the policies of the EU. The Germans, still feeling embarrassed and/or ashamed about invading France twice, give the french a freehand on how to run the EU. Dr. Rice is right in saying that a multi-polar world, like the one in 19th century Europe leads to constand warfare. You are somehow blinded by the vision that the french propose for your continent. But that vision will lead to a more socialist europe, something that is bad for everyone within and without of the continent. The United States has a much better vision of the world, where capitalism and democracy reigns supreme.

These beliefs came from your country. Too bad you are too busy idling as your ancient rivals (france) dictate your future.


EDIT: Let's not forget that in last years primary for president in france, 19% of the population voted for Le Pen, an ardent anti-semite and admirer of Hitler. About another 20% voted for socialists/communists. That means that 40% of the french populace are complete idiots/morons. Do you really want those people deciding your future?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Fencer128

she is the Rodney King of politics, basically she said "can't we all just get along"..


IMHO someday the world will live free and share common laws and rights similar to the American system I am so fortunate to live under, why would that be such a bad thing? Fair and equal trade, global min. wage, everyone having a voice in their representation would go a long way......

In my very limited experience, she sounded "neocon" and Dari-istic to me.

Having read a lot of what Dari believes - I don't see the land of milk of honey the neocons do.

Have a look at my responses in this thread for my views.

Cheers,

Andy

Fencer, I strongly urge you to read Andrew Moravcsik's latest article on relations between the European Union and the United States: Striking A New Transatlantic Bargain. It is at foreignaffairs.org

Furthermore, if you think the french have the best interests of Europe at heart, as opposed to their own, you must still be in that state of quagmire, chagrined, and adriftness since the british lost their empire. Unlike many of the intellectuals, you don't seem to understand how the world really works. Basically, it doesn't work like the theory of the EU dictates, where many nations come together for the bettering of mankind. In reality, France (with the helpful influence of Germany) dictates the policies of the EU. The Germans, still feeling embarrassed and/or ashamed about invading France twice, give the french a freehand on how to run the EU. Dr. Rice is right in saying that a multi-polar world, like the one in 19th century Europe leads to constand warfare. You are somehow blinded by the vision that the french propose for your continent. But that vision will lead to a more socialist europe, something that is bad for everyone within and without of the continent. The United States has a much better vision of the world, where capitalism and democracy reigns supreme.

These beliefs came from your country. Too bad you are too busy idling as your ancient rivals (france) dictate your future.


EDIT: Let's not forget that in last years primary for president in france, 19% of the population voted for Le Pen, an ardent anti-semite and admirer of Hitler. About another 20% voted for socialists/communists. That means that 40% of the french populace are complete idiots/morons. Do you really want those people deciding your future?

So the US has the EU's best interest at heart then?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Fencer128

she is the Rodney King of politics, basically she said "can't we all just get along"..


IMHO someday the world will live free and share common laws and rights similar to the American system I am so fortunate to live under, why would that be such a bad thing? Fair and equal trade, global min. wage, everyone having a voice in their representation would go a long way......

In my very limited experience, she sounded "neocon" and Dari-istic to me.

Having read a lot of what Dari believes - I don't see the land of milk of honey the neocons do.

Have a look at my responses in this thread for my views.

Cheers,

Andy

Fencer, I strongly urge you to read Andrew Moravcsik's latest article on relations between the European Union and the United States: Striking A New Transatlantic Bargain. It is at foreignaffairs.org

Furthermore, if you think the french have the best interests of Europe at heart, as opposed to their own, you must still be in that state of quagmire, chagrined, and adriftness since the british lost their empire. Unlike many of the intellectuals, you don't seem to understand how the world really works. Basically, it doesn't work like the theory of the EU dictates, where many nations come together for the bettering of mankind. In reality, France (with the helpful influence of Germany) dictates the policies of the EU. The Germans, still feeling embarrassed and/or ashamed about invading France twice, give the french a freehand on how to run the EU. Dr. Rice is right in saying that a multi-polar world, like the one in 19th century Europe leads to constand warfare. You are somehow blinded by the vision that the french propose for your continent. But that vision will lead to a more socialist europe, something that is bad for everyone within and without of the continent. The United States has a much better vision of the world, where capitalism and democracy reigns supreme.

These beliefs came from your country. Too bad you are too busy idling as your ancient rivals (france) dictate your future.


EDIT: Let's not forget that in last years primary for president in france, 19% of the population voted for Le Pen, an ardent anti-semite and admirer of Hitler. About another 20% voted for socialists/communists. That means that 40% of the french populace are complete idiots/morons. Do you really want those people deciding your future?

So the US has the EU's best interest at heart then?

we've had all of Europe's best interest at heart since the Great War (WWI)

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Well it may have indicated that she is gonna be sec state in '04 if Bush wins..

There's little doubt in my mind that Powell is persona non grata 2 seconds after Bush's re-election.

That puts Powell in a powerful position. If he dumps Bush anytime during '04 and indicates a reason as Bush's incompetence or truthfulness we'll have an interesting November.

 

[Moonbeam]

I see Powell as a complete yes man. He's lost all credibility with me. All he does is offer Bush some of his patina. It's sad.

 

[freegeeks]

it's the french that don't want to play ball. they want the EU to rival the US, which is insanse condiering all the problems a rivalry could bring about and inhibit. THe french are arrogant assholes that are using the EU to make them punch above their weight

The United States has a much better vision of the world, where capitalism and democracy reigns supreme.
These beliefs came from your country. Too bad you are too busy idling as your ancient rivals (france) dictate your future.

You are so funny Dari. You are so blinded by the big american flag wrapped around your head that there is no limit on the bs you tell everybody. Hitler would be proud of you. He was also convinced that the Germans were the best thing after sliced bread.

I have no problems with a strong commitment between the US and the EU. This relation should be based on mutual respect and there lies the problem. The Bush administration wants a lapdog, not an equal partner. The more neocons like Rumsfeld are spouting their garbage about the "old europe", the more the EU is going to "oppose" the USA. You can laugh with the French all you want but you have to realize that it is France and Germany who are the leading powers on continental Europe (if you like it or not).

You are always talking that the EU is a complete failure. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. From a destroyed continent 55 years ago, Western-Europe is now one of the richest regions in the world. The Marshall plan played a large part in the rebuilding of Europe but the start of the EU is also a significant factor. From a small club of countries in the 50's the EU has grown into an economic superpower. The EU is such a "failure" that Turkey and all of the Eastern-European countries are trying everything to join. It such a failure that South-American and Asian countries see the EU as a model for their freetrading organizations.

Is the EU perfect??? NOOOOOO. A lot of work still has to be done and everyone knows that dumb politicians is something universal. But at least I don't pretend that the EU or Belgium or other countries are superior. Dari and Alastair7 have one thing in common. You are both convinced that the USA is the best thing in the known universe. The fact is that the USA is not better or worse then France or any other country. It's because of the mindset of people like Dari and Alistair7 that the relations between the USA and the rest of the world are in such a bad state. You both are so closeminded that it's becoming very funny to read your threads. You guys believe anything that Dubya and his buddies have to say. I suggest you both build a shrine for him. You can worship him like the russians did with Stalin or the Germans with Hitler.

note: Alistair7 -- I can give you a million links about the USA and its "nice" past. Like others mentioned before, by using your flawed reasoning you just look like a bigger dork then you already are.

 

[Fencer128]

Fencer, I strongly urge you to read Andrew Moravcsik's latest article on relations between the European Union and the United States: Striking A New Transatlantic Bargain. It is at foreignaffairs.org

I maybe will.

Furthermore, if you think the french have the best interests of Europe at heart, as opposed to their own, you must still be in that state of quagmire, chagrined, and adriftness since the british lost their empire. Unlike many of the intellectuals, you don't seem to understand how the world really works. Basically, it doesn't work like the theory of the EU dictates, where many nations come together for the bettering of mankind. In reality, France (with the helpful influence of Germany) dictates the policies of the EU. The Germans, still feeling embarrassed and/or ashamed about invading France twice, give the french a freehand on how to run the EU. Dr. Rice is right in saying that a multi-polar world, like the one in 19th century Europe leads to constand warfare. You are somehow blinded by the vision that the french propose for your continent. But that vision will lead to a more socialist europe, something that is bad for everyone within and without of the continent. The United States has a much better vision of the world, where capitalism and democracy reigns supreme.

These beliefs came from your country. Too bad you are too busy idling as your ancient rivals (france) dictate your future.

EDIT: Let's not forget that in last years primary for president in france, 19% of the population voted for Le Pen, an ardent anti-semite and admirer of Hitler. About another 20% voted for socialists/communists. That means that 40% of the french populace are complete idiots/morons. Do you really want those people deciding your future?

So the US has the EU's best interest at heart then?

we've had all of Europe's best interest at heart since the Great War (WWI)

Well, I could argue that like a lot of "intellectuals" you *think* you know "how the world works" as much as you like to believe you know how the world "will work in the future". I find it difficult to believe that the French run the EU. Yes, they are it's most avid supporters, but don't let that disway you from the fact that in every major EU vote on a new/changed principle, the UK has a veto that it can, will and has used previously.

Furthermore, I fail to understand how anyone thought a conglomeration of seperate countries came together to help anyone other than themselves. It started as a trade pact and has since expanded socio-economically. But it was never going to be a US equivalent - despite what people would have you believe.

Your view on what is bad about the EU comes back to socialism or socialist policies at least. This is levelled as a criticism by you as you are no doubt a pure captitalist at heart. That's fine. It's your country - but let us not forget that as much as I may be wrong in my views, you may in your view too. There is no reason to believe that limited (ie modernised and reformed) socialist policies can work other than harking bark to either communist extremes or the bad days of the 70's when the energy crisis tainted every political decision.

Obviously there are a lot of terrible regimes out there - but also a lot of people outside the US are very happy with some of the policies laid out by their governments and enjoy living under their respective systems. This does not denounce them as "imperfect" because they don't fit the US model. I'm sure there are other ways forward for countries with socialist policies and who are in trouble (such as Germany) that does not necessarily involve adopting 100% US thinking.

It will be a cold day in hell before I agree that the best and only peaceful way forward for the world is to adopt the mindset, policies and thinking of it's most powerful country - especially when the idea is promoted by that country. Remind me just how is this US utopia to be achieved when persuasion fails again? Subterfuge, conflict, sanctions? I find it worrying that you say how these ideas come from Britain only a few sentences from where you reference the crumbled, failed, oppressive British empire.

It isn't any great brainwave in my book to realise that if you want (read push, persuade downright force where possible) every other entity to behave and think like yourself - then they'll be universal agreement all the time. The question is who gave you the right to decide what's best for everyone else on the planet? No-one in history has yet been able to answer that successfully.

As I said before, France does not directly decide the UK's future - it has influence; influence every member of the EU can potentially isolate itself from - but it does not decide. And we're certainly not idleing, in fact our current government appears to be earnestly adopting as many US policies as it can get away with.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[freegeeks]

Dari,

Another thing. You are bashing on the French because of their support for Le-Pen (I agree, a fascist pig).
They don't have any real power because they are excluded on the federal level, they only have some power on the local level because of some elected mayors.


Let's compare that with Italy (one of Bush his lapdogs).
Prime minister Berlusconi is one of the most corrupt politicians in Europe. Last week he passed a law to prevent that the Italian Justice went after him because of widespread corruption. Yesterday he offended a German member of the european parliament to the point that they had to end the meeting (he told the german that he would be perfect as commander of a german concentration camp-the german had some questions about the Burlesconi law)Oh, did I already told you that Berlusconi has a govt. together with the Lega Nord; a fascist and racist party. Yip, the Italian buddies from Bush are corrupt and fascist a'holes. A couple of weeks ago the leader of the Lega Nord proposed that the Italian Navy should open fire on illegal refugees. Nice policies.


If that's the "new europe" that Rummy and Dubya like so much, they can have it. I'll stay with the "old europe"

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There is no one as arrogant as someone who might wish to offset your own personal goals of world domination.

 

[Nitemare]

France sucks and has for years. Having Chirac in charge makes it even more so. I'd vote for Condy in 2008 for the president of the USA*


*fixed for those that are easily confused

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
France sucks and has for years. Having Chirac in charge makes it even more so. I'd vote for Condy in 2008

I didn't know you were French and she was running for Chirac's spot!

Learn something new every day.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
France sucks and has for years. Having Chirac in charge makes it even more so. I'd vote for Condy in 2008 for the president of the USA*


*fixed for those that are easily confused

better?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Nitemare
France sucks and has for years. Having Chirac in charge makes it even more so. I'd vote for Condy in 2008 for the president of the USA*


*fixed for those that are easily confused

better?

Yep

 

[Miramonti]

"Multipolarity" means 'opposition to unilateralism'? This is wrong on so many levels its not funny.