Rice pledges support to Russian activists.

[Drift3r]

Never mind that the same could be said about Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Libya ( our new friend now ), Pakistan, China etc..... It seems this administration is hell bent in re-igniting the cold war with Russia. Might as well provoke them further and park a carrier off St. Petersburg and perform "Military Exercises" . Maybe we can do low flying buzzing of the Kremlin with our fighter jets and shatter some windows over Moscow.

Rice pledges support to Russian activists

By Arshad Mohammed and Gleb Bryanski Sat Oct 13, 9:47 AM ET

MOSCOW (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told Russian human rights activists on Saturday she wanted to help them build institutions to protect people from the 'arbitrary power of the state'.
ADVERTISEMENT

"I think that there is too much concentration of power in the Kremlin," she later told reporters.

Her remarks and the meeting with eight human rights leaders could irk the Kremlin, which is sensitive to Western accusations it is rolling back democratic freedoms and suspects foreign governments of trying to influence next year's presidential election.

Rice told the rights activists she wanted to hear about their efforts to protect freedoms in Russia.

"I am quite confident that your goal is to build institutions that are indigenous to Russia -- that are Russian institutions -- but that are also respectful of what we all know to be universal values," said Rice.

She said these were: "The rights of individuals to liberty and freedom, the right to worship as you please, and the right to assembly, the right to not have to deal with the arbitrary power of the state."

"How is it going and what can we do to help Russia to build strong institutions that have these universal values?"

The United States and other Western governments are concerned about democracy, human rights and civil society in Russia under President Vladimir Putin.

He has centralized power and mounted a huge security operation in Chechnya. Television, main source of news for most Russians, has been brought under tight Kremlin control with Putin's opponents rarely given access to the airwaves.

Opinion polls though show most Russians back Putin's tough style of rule.

ABU-GHRAIB JAIL

Tatyana Lokshina, head of the Demos civil rights group, said she and her colleagues had discussed with Rice rights abuses in Chechnya, and fears the Russian political system discriminates against the opposition.

But Lokshina said the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay and allegations of abuse at the U.S.-run Abu-Ghraib prison in Iraq had dented Washington's authority on human rights.

"When the United States criticizes, the Russian authorities say: 'Look what is happening on your patch'," she said.

Lyudmila Alexeyeva, chair of the Moscow Helsinki Group, said she told Rice the West should be more vocal. "An authoritarian regime is intentionally being built (in Russia)," she said.

"I told Rice that human rights activists would like Western leaders visiting Russia ... to raise human rights issues not only in private conversations but also publicly."

Rice and U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Friday met Putin and their Russian counterparts for so-called "2+2" talks that focused on a U.S. plan for a missile defense shield in Europe, which Moscow opposes.

Rice said she had not raised human rights in her talks with Putin or in the "2+2" discussions, saying these had concentrated on missile defense and other strategic issues.

However, she told reporters on Saturday she had discussed human rights and Russia's political evolution with the Russian foreign minister, prime minister and other senior officials at subsequent meetings.

Rice said there was too much concentration of power in the Kremlin and spoke of the need for independent institutions to counter-balance the Russian presidency.

"There are questions about the independence of the judiciary. There are clearly questions about the independence of electronic media and there are, I think, questions about the strength of the Duma (lower house of parliament).[q/]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...m/russia_usa_rights_dc

 

[techs]

I read an analysis that says it is pressure to get the Russkies to go along with our plans for Iran.
But I have no problem tweaking the nose of the Putin tyrant.

 

[EagleKeeper]

And if Russia is a vital ally.

 

[theeedude]

Given how much Russians dislike American interference, I am not sure the activists want her support.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: techs
I read an analysis that says it is pressure to get the Russkies to go along with our plans for Iran.
But I have no problem tweaking the nose of the Putin tyrant.

I hardly think the diplomacy of sharp sticks will get the Russian bear on our side. Russia has some serious terrorists problems and Rice tooting their horn is not going to help. When push comes to shove, the USA is the one that lives in the more vulnerable glass house.

But kinda sleezy Rice is a fool and a liar, whats new?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: techs
I read an analysis that says it is pressure to get the Russkies to go along with our plans for Iran.
But I have no problem tweaking the nose of the Putin tyrant.

The problem is that he is not a tyrant. He has overwhelming popular support. US interference is strongly associated with the destitute 90s when the US supported Yeltzin's economic policies which left vast majority of the people in terrible economic shape and unable to provide for themselves. Highly skilled professionals were paid something like $20/month while a handful of now hated oligarchs appropriated state property worth billions of dollars for pennies through rigged privatization.
Where was the US standing up to Russian presidential tyranny when Yeltzin had had tanks in Moscow shelling the Russian Parliament in 1993? Back then we were calling him a democratic reformer.

 

[ProfJohn]

I can believe the Republicans are risking offended a vital ally like this?

We should instead focus our time and energy proclaiming what the Turks did 100 years ago to be genocide, which is a much better idea?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: techs
I read an analysis that says it is pressure to get the Russkies to go along with our plans for Iran.
But I have no problem tweaking the nose of the Putin tyrant.

The problem is that he is not a tyrant. He has overwhelming popular support. US interference is strongly associated with the destitute 90s when the US supported Yeltzin's economic policies which left vast majority of the people in terrible economic shape and unable to provide for themselves. Highly skilled professionals were paid something like $20/month while a handful of now hated oligarchs appropriated state property worth billions of dollars for pennies through rigged privatization.
Where was the US standing up to Russian presidential tyranny when Yeltzin had had tanks in Moscow shelling the Russian Parliament in 1993? Back then we were calling him a democratic reformer.

By your reasoning just because a tyrant has overwhelming popular support he isn't a tyrant?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: techs
I read an analysis that says it is pressure to get the Russkies to go along with our plans for Iran.
But I have no problem tweaking the nose of the Putin tyrant.

The problem is that he is not a tyrant. He has overwhelming popular support. US interference is strongly associated with the destitute 90s when the US supported Yeltzin's economic policies which left vast majority of the people in terrible economic shape and unable to provide for themselves. Highly skilled professionals were paid something like $20/month while a handful of now hated oligarchs appropriated state property worth billions of dollars for pennies through rigged privatization.
Where was the US standing up to Russian presidential tyranny when Yeltzin had had tanks in Moscow shelling the Russian Parliament in 1993? Back then we were calling him a democratic reformer.

By your reasoning just because a tyrant has overwhelming popular support he isn't a tyrant?

Cruel, undemocratic ruler, definition of Tyrant. Ya, he got it right.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Never mind that the same could be said about Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Libya ( our new friend now ), Pakistan, China etc..... It seems this administration is hell bent in re-igniting the cold war with Russia. Might as well provoke them further and park a carrier off St. Petersburg and perform "Military Exercises" . Maybe we can do low flying buzzing of the Kremlin with our fighter jets and shatter some windows over Moscow.

Rice pledges support to Russian activists

By Arshad Mohammed and Gleb Bryanski Sat Oct 13, 9:47 AM ET

MOSCOW (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told Russian human rights activists on Saturday she wanted to help them build institutions to protect people from the 'arbitrary power of the state'.
ADVERTISEMENT

"I think that there is too much concentration of power in the Kremlin," she later told reporters.

Her remarks and the meeting with eight human rights leaders could irk the Kremlin, which is sensitive to Western accusations it is rolling back democratic freedoms and suspects foreign governments of trying to influence next year's presidential election.

Rice told the rights activists she wanted to hear about their efforts to protect freedoms in Russia.

"I am quite confident that your goal is to build institutions that are indigenous to Russia -- that are Russian institutions -- but that are also respectful of what we all know to be universal values," said Rice.

She said these were: "The rights of individuals to liberty and freedom, the right to worship as you please, and the right to assembly, the right to not have to deal with the arbitrary power of the state."

"How is it going and what can we do to help Russia to build strong institutions that have these universal values?"

The United States and other Western governments are concerned about democracy, human rights and civil society in Russia under President Vladimir Putin.

He has centralized power and mounted a huge security operation in Chechnya. Television, main source of news for most Russians, has been brought under tight Kremlin control with Putin's opponents rarely given access to the airwaves.

Opinion polls though show most Russians back Putin's tough style of rule.

ABU-GHRAIB JAIL

Tatyana Lokshina, head of the Demos civil rights group, said she and her colleagues had discussed with Rice rights abuses in Chechnya, and fears the Russian political system discriminates against the opposition.

But Lokshina said the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay and allegations of abuse at the U.S.-run Abu-Ghraib prison in Iraq had dented Washington's authority on human rights.

"When the United States criticizes, the Russian authorities say: 'Look what is happening on your patch'," she said.

Lyudmila Alexeyeva, chair of the Moscow Helsinki Group, said she told Rice the West should be more vocal. "An authoritarian regime is intentionally being built (in Russia)," she said.

"I told Rice that human rights activists would like Western leaders visiting Russia ... to raise human rights issues not only in private conversations but also publicly."

Rice and U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Friday met Putin and their Russian counterparts for so-called "2+2" talks that focused on a U.S. plan for a missile defense shield in Europe, which Moscow opposes.

Rice said she had not raised human rights in her talks with Putin or in the "2+2" discussions, saying these had concentrated on missile defense and other strategic issues.

However, she told reporters on Saturday she had discussed human rights and Russia's political evolution with the Russian foreign minister, prime minister and other senior officials at subsequent meetings.

Rice said there was too much concentration of power in the Kremlin and spoke of the need for independent institutions to counter-balance the Russian presidency.

"There are questions about the independence of the judiciary. There are clearly questions about the independence of electronic media and there are, I think, questions about the strength of the Duma (lower house of parliament).[q/]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...m/russia_usa_rights_dc

Over in Russia preaching what is not practised at home? How Bush!

 

[theeedude]

I don't like Russian political thinking, but the point is they like strong leaders like Putin. That's why they whole heartedly support him. He is in full control of the country, and they like it. They have this institutionalized mentality of needing a strong state, which I am not a big fan of, but it's there. There is also this curiosity + paranoia duality wrt to the West. Russians would like to live like westerners, but at the same time they are afraid of western interference in their culture and politics. The 90s only reinforced that, when Russians were promised that they would transition to the good life if only they went along with the western advisers, only to be robbed blind. Plus the whole Serbia bombing only reinforced the paranoia, that if Russia didn't become strong, they would have their internal affairs interfered with from outside. There is very long ancient and not so ancient history of this psychology at work, and you ignore it at your peril. Rice has done Russian opposition a great disservice by supporting them directly. As so called specialist on Russia and USSR, she should have known better.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I can believe the Republicans are risking offended a vital ally like this?

We should instead focus our time and energy proclaiming what the Turks did 100 years ago to be genocide, which is a much better idea?

:laugh:

 

[miketheidiot]

yes we should only do the right thing when its politically convenient.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I can believe the Republicans are risking offended a vital ally like this?

We should instead focus our time and energy proclaiming what the Turks did 100 years ago to be genocide, which is a much better idea?

WTF are you trippin on?

I guess you think Genocide should be allowed to be covered up

 

[dahunan]

http://www.current.tv/pods/vanguardspecial/PD07371

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
yes we should only do the right thing when its politically convenient.

If you want to be a effective diplomat then you need to know which battles to fight and which ones to avoid until you are ready to fight them.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I can believe the Republicans are risking offended a vital ally like this?

We should instead focus our time and energy proclaiming what the Turks did 100 years ago to be genocide, which is a much better idea?

WTF are you trippin on?

I guess you think Genocide should be allowed to be covered up

Congress has passed two resolutions similar to this one in the past.

How many more do we need to pass to make you happy?

 

[jackschmittusa]

I can't believe all of you missed the obvious humor here. What we have is a member of the Bush Administration loudly proclaiming to be seriously concerned about the concentration of power in the administrative head-of-state; unchecked by the judicial and legislative branches of government; involved in a foreign military excursion; eroding the citizens rights at home.

I personally find it "chuckle out loud" funny.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I can believe the Republicans are risking offended a vital ally like this?

We should instead focus our time and energy proclaiming what the Turks did 100 years ago to be genocide, which is a much better idea?

WTF are you trippin on?

I guess you think Genocide should be allowed to be covered up

Congress has passed two resolutions similar to this one in the past.

How many more do we need to pass to make you happy?

As many as it takes for Turkey to admit the truth?

 

[jackschmittusa]

And a post on the serious side some of the comments here.

Pelosi is pretty stupid to push this genocide resolution at this time. Making more waves in the M.E. right now, especially with nothing to gain and much to lose for the effort, is not very bright. Doing it with Turkey is moronic. Even if you think this should be done, find a better time. The very valid reasons against doing it now are legion. And for those that there should be no time considerations on calling out a bad act, well, since we are already nearly a hundred years after the fact; I think that makes it a moot point.

And if I am to believe that there are good intentions behind a resolution of this type, make it a condemnation of a laundry list of genocidal acts, with the government directed slaughter of Native Americans at the head of the list.

 

[techs]

I guess if the U.S. won't apologize for slavery the Turks don't have to apologize for the Armenian massacre.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
And a post on the serious side some of the comments here.

Pelosi is pretty stupid to push this genocide resolution at this time. Making more waves in the M.E. right now, especially with nothing to gain and much to lose for the effort, is not very bright. Doing it with Turkey is moronic. Even if you think this should be done, find a better time. The very valid reasons against doing it now are legion. And for those that there should be no time considerations on calling out a bad act, well, since we are already nearly a hundred years after the fact; I think that makes it a moot point.

And if I am to believe that there are good intentions behind a resolution of this type, make it a condemnation of a laundry list of genocidal acts, with the government directed slaughter of Native Americans at the head of the list.

The US govt has forgotten how to do diplomacy.

Invade Iraq

Antagonize Iran causing an internal chain of events making a possible ally into the opposite

Piss Russia off

Provoke Turkey to turn against us.


How moronic.

 

[ericlp]

Well, we got everyone else pissed at us, why not try the Russians? I wouldn't trust rice to go over and patch things up.... She's a friggen tard that makes mountains out of mole hills. If I were a president of another country I'd ban her from entering the air space...

 

[Jhhnn]

Some of you don't really get it, at all. The first thing we need to realize is that the bushco domestic agenda requires foreign "enemies", even if they have to be created by our own actions.

It's been the same for nearly all expansionist authoritarian regimes throughout human history...

"With Us or Against Us!" "Us vs Them!" are mainstays of the Neocon methodology, the teachings of Leo Strauss...

It still works, and probably always will... certainly so long as very few see it for what it is...