RIAA and how they monitor

trend

Senior member
Nov 7, 1999
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this question can be veiwed many ways... a short answer and a long answer.. i want the long answer :)

How exacully do they monitor so many people? are they on the backbone of the internet? do they monitor only kazaa.. i heard some talk about irc.. bu that was to confusing for them..

Just wondering
 

masul0100

Member
Jun 19, 2001
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From what I understand, they can only monitor if they make a direct connection to your IP i.e. kazaa, limewire, etc. But IRC and Usenet don't work that way. Information is posted and left there for a certain amount of time (depends on the server, at least usenet does). I don't know how their monitoring will change after This Ruling
But I don't know for sure, I could just be talking out of my "A-double-S" but I'm not in jail so I'm doing somthing right ;-)

Masul
 

Pudgygiant

Senior member
May 13, 2003
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Just out of curiosity... is this because you want to avoid getting caught or you genuinely want to know?
 

trend

Senior member
Nov 7, 1999
603
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I really just want to know. Seems interesting what they are doing.. even though it is pretty evil ...
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
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Originally posted by: trend
I really just want to know. Seems interesting what they are doing.. even though it is pretty evil ...

same here, i am genuinely am curious
 

andyman7

Member
Jan 22, 2003
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for kazaa (and similiar networks), im pretty sure that they simply search for songs that they hold the copyright to and then try to download them from people
once the download has been initiated, they can simply do a netstat in the command prompt to see the ip addy of the person they are connected to
from that they can easily determine the isp of that person and contact them accordingly
thats why some universities are kind of slipping hints to their students that its safer to just download and not upload because there is a much smaller chance that you will download from the RIAA than them downloading from you

for irc, there are some websites that let you search some irc networks for files and i guess the RIAA could use those to find their files and then get onto that channel to see who the offenders are

but i dont really see the RIAA targeting irc users right now
the people using irc probably know enough to not get caught by the RIAA (unless of course the RIAA is doing things with irc that im not aware) and the rest of the stuff on irc is just kept by computers that have been hacked and turned into irc bots (seen a LOT of that at my college and we have been contacted by movie industry b/c of it but not the music industry yet)

thats how i see it....could be wrong though :/
 

wkabel23

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
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I don't think the RIAA can come into IRC channels and target people due to a act passed by Bill Clinton. It's on the greeting/topic of most irc channels that offer downloads for music, movies, apps., etc.
 

IamElectro

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2003
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Originally posted by: wkabel23
I don't think the RIAA can come into IRC channels and target people due to a act passed by Bill Clinton. It's on the greeting/topic of most irc channels that offer downloads for music, movies, apps., etc.

This is untrue, the stuff in those greetings is made up of myth. What the people in irc chatrooms do is illegal and could be prosecuted for it.. In irc it is easier for people running severs to cover thier tracks than with p2p programs. The average computer user would have no idea how to obtain files from irc either. It is a problem to them, but its easier for them to purse p2p users as there are millions more of them.

for kazaa (and similiar networks), im pretty sure that they simply search for songs that they hold the copyright to and then try to download them from people
once the download has been initiated, they can simply do a netstat in the command prompt to see the ip addy of the person they are connected to
from that they can easily determine the isp of that person and contact them accordingly
thats why some universities are kind of slipping hints to their students that its safer to just download and not upload because there is a much smaller chance that you will download from the RIAA than them downloading from you

This runs in line with everything i have ever read about this topic.
 

Pudgygiant

Senior member
May 13, 2003
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Sorry to point this OT, but I had sort of a solution. I think for every RIAA song you legally buy you should be able to download one of your choice free. I don't mean that they'd regulate it as such, I mean if they attempt to prosecute I think they should be lenient to that effect. This would actually work in their favor as they'd look a little less ruthless in court.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
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Most likely its whats been said, they monitor Ip connections. Think of your firewall, it gives Ip addresses of attempted <insert notification requirement>. Well, the RIAA probably sets up servers which logs all IP connections and file downloads. They could also initiate connections and log the Ip they are connecting to. Makes you wonder if configuring through a proxy in say China would throw them off.....

The other way is a big more difficult and something they wouldnt be able to do. Assuming they had access they could drop a packet sniffer on a WAN connection and monitor ALL in/out bound traffic, then do keyword searches for specific file types or connection types based on port numbers. Most telco's have the ability to do this, but since the RIAA isnt a telco and doesnt provide backbone services for ISP's this option isnt available to them. Some of us however can do this....;)
 

SignalSoldier

Senior member
Sep 2, 2003
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I have often wondered (and this may sound crazy) what if this was all a scare tactic. I mean how can these guys police the entire world. At any given time when i log on to Kazaa there are 3 million users online??
You have your countries like say Korea (i lived there 2 years) where the copyright laws are extrememly none when it comes to things like this. I mean If I was still in Korea as a Kazaa user how could they lock me up for the RIAA is American right? I had the same thing when i was in Japan. This may not make sense to some but I am curious to anybody out there that this makes sense too.
 

spamsk8r

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2001
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Yes, the RIAA is the Recording Industry Association of America, and I doubt they could do anything to extradite violators in other countries, especially Asian countries since most of them have no regard for international law anyway.
 

Maus

Member
Dec 29, 2003
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Originally posted by: wkabel23
I don't think the RIAA can come into IRC channels and target people due to a act passed by Bill Clinton. It's on the greeting/topic of most irc channels that offer downloads for music, movies, apps., etc.
? Clinton signed the DMCA into law. He's not going to protect pirates.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
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Originally posted by: wkabel23
I don't think the RIAA can come into IRC channels and target people due to a act passed by Bill Clinton. It's on the greeting/topic of most irc channels that offer downloads for music, movies, apps., etc.

Hahahaha that "warning" is the biggest crock of dung. That "law" they always cite doesn't exist.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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were ever you go you leave foot prints. You go thru routers, the routers record and proccess the destination ip address and the destination address as part as the routing proccess. Now they don't record addresses and stuff normally, but any router is just a computer and can be made to.

You just have to understand how the internet works.




You -------> router1 --------> router2 -------> router2 ------> destination

You send your ip packet to your gateway. It says I am from ip adresss so-and-so and I want to go to ip address so-and-so#2.

The gateway is router1, and is owned by your ISP. The router looks up it's router tables and goes: "ah, this network of ip address for so-and-so-2 can be found thru router2".

Then router2 gets it. And goes "ah, this network can be found thru router3!" and sends it to router3, and router3 is the server's gateway and goes, "Ah, ah this address matches this computer "destination""

The the server goes, yes here is your info and then the proccess repeats, just in the oppisite direction.

It does that for hundreds of packets a minute.


Here's what RIAA does. They go: I need to find pirate servers to find pirate downloaders. I'll pretend to be a pirate and find evidence against a pirate server.

Then once they find a server they call the ISP. They go, we will sue you if you don't help us, let us log packet origins that go to computer so-and-so-2. If that doesn't work then they get a court order to seize the server. They seize the server then logs the ip adresses of all the people downloading illigal songs.

They call up your ISP (easily determined from IP address thru everyday whois servers) and says: "you have a pirate that is downloading illigal music and violating your terms of use. Give us info on address and name or we will sue you"

Then they send out nasty letters to the downloaders saying they will sue you.

Not something that is realy mysterious or underhanded. Pretty simple stuff.
 

trend

Senior member
Nov 7, 1999
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heh, yep, pretty simple. I guess the main reason i posted this thread was to see if anyone knew what ports theywere monitoring? just kazaa.. it looks like from what everyoen is saying... thanks for a nice answer though :)
 

tolnep

Junior Member
Dec 31, 2003
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I work and have worked for several national ISPs. I write and maintain RADIUS servers. Almost all logins on the net are done using RADIUS. This is for dial, xDSL, cable, VPN, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Each RADIUS packet contains the 'assigned ip address'. Sometimes only the accounting stop record contains this but you always get it.

If RIAA or someone else (I have replied for request for IP addresses for a number of reasons, the most common being email spammers, I have never been asked for RIAA or similar) asks for 'who was using the IP address during this time period' I go through my logs and find the user that was using the thing during that time. In some cases, I have had online database lookups for this info going back one year. In other words, you give me an IP address and a time and I can immediately tell you the persons name, address, home phone, payment method for account, payment history etc. Of course this info can then be used to get even more info from credit bureaus etc.

What RIAA does is basically use a PC to search for users sharing target profiles, usually something like 1000 songs and some number of those top 40 say. Since most sharing is done p2p once they find you as a source, they know your IP address via netstat or buy using a sniffer installed on their PC or one another PC on the same segment. I suspect that they use sniffers to captuer the complete transaction search. Do a google search and take a look at Etherreal, a freeware sniffer than anyone can run on their PC (along with whatever) or to sniff the segment.

When you start talking about monitoring at the router level, that becames a big problem because of the overhead it would put on the router itself. Secondly, most networks now uses switches, MPLS, ATM, VPN protocols which make it very difficult to put a sniffer someplace in the backbone that can monitor everything. No network that I know of is willing to spend the millions of dollars to put permanent taps on their backbones. Not that it can't be done. But who would pay for it? RIAA finds target users and takes them to court, costing the pirate (or his/her parents) several thousand dollars and time. They then make a big splash with these examples in order to scare off other would-be sharers.

The technology they use is fairly simple. Some day somebody(s) are going to figure out how to allow for sharing and for artists/creators to get their money too. The result will end up making more money than microsoft has for bill gates. I personally don't mind paying for things I want and if no one pays, then entertainment will suffer. For me the neat thing about p2p is the ability to search and sample all kinds of weird music, old speeches, and things that noone cares about making money on. For instance, if you want to listen to mongolian throat music, you probably aren't going to be able to get that off of Napster or iTunes. But you could off of Kazza (lite, I wouldn't touch Kazaa media desktop with osama's PC).
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
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They don't use sniffers. And they don't (well at least they didn't, they may now) check the files they 'download' to see if they are actually what the filename says they are.

doing the following on unix, and sharing the resulting file, has gotten people subpoenaed in the past:

more /dev/urandom >> "Britney Spears - Hit Me Baby One More Time.mp3"


anyway, the RIAA blows goats.

ebaycj
 

CoDaBu

Member
Jan 1, 2004
73
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when you share your music they are able to download from you and gain access to you ip address. They then cross reference the ip address with isp's and they find out who you are and they send you their lawsuit. the easiest way to protect yourself is in kazaa go to options then traffic and disable sharing with other users.
 

uart

Member
May 26, 2000
174
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Originally posted by: Pudgygiant
You think they could have fake files, and they monitor who downloads them?

What would be the point of that? If you download a "fake" file is it even illegal? A case built on the evidence of d/l of a "fake" file would never even make it to court IMHO.

Also they have a far stronger case, should they need to take you to court, if they have downloded from you rather than visa-versa.

If you only download from them then they probably need to establish something about your motivations in order to build a real case in court. For example, did you d/l it with the intentions of keeping it? recording it? sharing it? re-distributing it? Or did you just listen to it and then delete it? It theory it may be illegal in any case, but in practice, in a court of law, then any punishment handed out would generally be subject to the motivations and usage involved.

If on the otherhand they (the RIAA) can download copyrighted material from you then it is almost beyond question that your intentions where to share and illegally distribute copyrighted material. This gives them a far stronger case - effectively you are now the "trafficer" rather than a mere "user".