rewiring my home with cat5e to use for phone?

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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I plan on rewiring my house and would like to run cat5e and cable, if possible I'd like to use the cat5 for my phone lines as well. Is this setup possible? if so what will I need? If it is possible what I would like to do is to be able to turn any rj45 jack into an rj11 jack and simply unplug the cat5e from the switch to what ever the phone cables are supposed to be connected to.

And one last question, are there cover plates available that encorporate the power outlet (2) and two rj45 jacks and a cable outlet and maybe a free spot.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
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yes you can set up a patch panel to use a run as either a phone or data.
you do not want to put data anywhere close to power, so that plate would be a bad idea if available.
 

SpeedFreak03

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2003
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First, keep power and data seperate, as skyking said. The power lines will cause interference with the data lines, which can cause performance hits, lost packets, etc. It is alright to have them a couple feet apart though, as long as the power is nice quality (not too thin) and the data is insulated well. Anyway phone lines are 4 wires (2 wires for each phone line - most houses can have 2 phone lines before needing more wiring), and Cat5 is 8. So, just take two of the twisted pair (like maybe blue/blue-stripe and green/green-stripe) and just hook up the same color at each end (like blue on CAT5 goes to yellow on phone). Then use keystone jacks (available at radio shack) for the panels. Buy the 2 or 3 panel keystone faceplate, then buy the keystone jacks for RJ45 ethernet and cable. That is how I did it in my house (not the cat5/phone thing, the keystone jacks) and it works great. Provides for a nice clean install, and they allow many different types of plugs in one spot! Like in my basement, I have one 6 panel keystone faceplate, then I have 4 ethernet jacks (from each computer), a cable jack (to go to my cable modem), and a phone line (just cause the line was right there lol). They also sell blank covers to fill the spaces, like if I get rid of a computer or something. PM or email me if u have any questions, as I have done plenty of wiring/running jobs.

-Josh
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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So then I would have to wire the cat5 specifically to be used for the phone lines? So I couldn't just easily turn an rj45 jack into an rj11 jack with out having to rewire the jack (if it was already wired for ethernet)?

Now I plan on terminating the data lines into a switch, is this the correct way to do it? What do the phone lines go to (I've never wired phone lines before so I have no idea how it is setup or terminated?



As far as the layout goes, what is the best way to do it? by having a plate on each wall or only on a main wall? To me it would be best to have it on each wall just in case the layout of the furniture changes.


And one more thing (for this post anyway) if I did want to run the wiring into a plate with the power wouldn't shielded cat5 be enough? I just want to have the cleanest look possible and that's why I want to keep the wall plates to a minimum.


Thanks for the help guys.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
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It is really a bad idea to intentionally mix data and power in the same location. Even shielded wire is unshielded at the connection, so I would loook at clean designs with seperate plates.
Here is a run, from room to closet: rj45 keystone jack, cat5e or cat6 run, patch panel. From patch panel: Either a jumper to phone, or a network patch cable to switch. This way, you can use a run for either phone or data by just moving a cable in the wiring closet.
I recommend terminating in a patch panel in the closet.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: skyking

Here is a run, from room to closet: rj45 keystone jack, cat5e or cat6 run, patch panel. From patch panel: Either a jumper to phone, or a network patch cable to switch. This way, you can use a run for either phone or data by just moving a cable in the wiring closet.
I recommend terminating in a patch panel in the closet.

That's what I'm looking for! Where can I get more info on a setup like that with regards to the actual hardware?
 

Thoreau

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2003
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Originally posted by: ivwshane
So then I would have to wire the cat5 specifically to be used for the phone lines? So I couldn't just easily turn an rj45 jack into an rj11 jack with out having to rewire the jack (if it was already wired for ethernet)?

Not unless you re-terminate the cords of your phones to have rj45 plugs on them. =) I personally got a little creative with some of my apartment wiring (yeah, generally a bad idea, but hey.. what the apartment doesn't know won't hurt them.) Firstly, if you have the space and the money, i HIGHLY recommend going with 6 plug (terminology?) wall plates. The ones I picked up have 6 parts that can snap out (and back in if need be) and that allows for future expansion beyond the typical 2-3 plug plates. In your case, it might be best to run a couple cat5 cables just to make things easier. Three would be optimal.. One for voice (which would only run at 1/4 capacity if you only have one phone line), one for data, and another as a backup. The extra spots on the wall plate come in handy sometimes. I tossed in jacks to pass video and audio from my bedroom out to the livingroom. I also pulled the COAX cable over to the same outlet and added plugs for that.

In summary, I ramble a lot. =)
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
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The pinout for TIA/EIA 568a and 568b is completely "phone compatible."

Pair 1 is the blue pair on pins 4 & 5, which corresponds to telephone line 1
Pair 2 is the (green or orange) pair on pins 3 & 6, which corresponds to telephone line 2
pair 3 is the (orange or green) pair on pins 1 & 2, which corresponds to telephone line 3
pair 4 is the brown pair on pins 7 & 8, which corresponds to telephone line 4

Ethernet uses pair 2 & 3 (orange and green)
Token Ring uses pair 1 & 2 (blue and (orange or green))
T1 uses pair 1 & 3 ((orange or green) and blue)
56K / DDS uses pairs 3 & 4 ((orange or green) and brown)
ATM uses pairs 3&4 (for 155 or 25 meg - older 25Meg ATM used pair 2 & 3, same as Ethernet)

The (orange or green) reference is because TIA/EIA 568B uses green @ pair 2, TIA/EIA 568A uses the orange pair @ pair 2).

SO, the pinout for 568A, with the clip down/away from you would be: Green-White, Green, Orange-White, BLUE, BLUE_WHITE, Orange, Brown-white, Brown. This would be the preferred pinout under strict telephony conventions. The Blue pair (pair 1) is swapped (BLUE, BLUE-WHITE) compared to the other pair.

The pinout for TIA/EIA 568B is the same except the orange & green pair are swapped (568A = orange pair 2, 568B = Green pair 2).

As of CAT5e, pair order is less critical for performance, since all pair are qualified for high-speed data, but ordering your pair according to the EIA/TIA standards make it easier to remember "how you did it" six months later, and offers no frustration to the next person trying to use your cabling system. You have to do it from scratch, so you may as well do it "right" the first time. It takes no additional effort to do it right.

On a punch system, most often the white wire goes on the left side of the post ... just like in the connector. Most punch blocks now have an explicit color code label to indicate which color goes where .... follow that label.

Other rules you should be aware of if you're pulling the cable:

@@@@ Keep the pulling tension under 15 pounds (it's different from one manufacturer's cable to another, but 15 is a safe value for all)
@@@@ All bends (everywhere, no exceptions) should have a radius of NO LESS THAN 4 times the diameter of the cable ( 2" is usually quoted)
@@@@ The maximum exposed (unjacketed) pair is 1/2" (one half inch, MAX)
@@@@ The maximum length of untwisted pair for termination is 1/2" (less is much better - keep the twist up to the termination).
------------To be clear, the exposed pair length and the untwisted pair length is the SAME half inch.
@@@@ DO NOT (as in NEVER EVER) compress, crush, knot, twist, or kink the cable or jacket (don't cinch the cable ties tight)

No matter how much cheaper you can buy it, NEVER NEVER NEVER run stranded cabling in the walls. Stranded has a much higher loss than solid conductor UTP cabling. Buy solid for the walls, stranded for the (bleah) patch cables. The "100 meter rule" does not apply to stranded cabling: stranded cabling cannot pass a signal for 100 meters ... it loses too much.

Also be aware that there are basically four types of crimp-on plugs: Flat (stranded or solid) and round (solid or stranded). Make sure you have the right kind of plug for the cable you are crimping (usually "round" and "stranded" for a patch cable) it should be explicitely labeled as a "CAT 5" (or Cat5e or Cat6). Cheap, unlabeled plugs may bring your cool new Cat5 / Cat5e / Cat6 cabling job down to "telephone grade" unrated cabling. The plugs for "flat" are for telephone use only -NEVER- use a "flat" plug for category-rated cabling.

The spec is for 90 Meters of SOLID cabling "in the wall" and 5 meters of stranded patch at each end (100 meters total). This is not an absolute, but a good solid "rule of thumb" recommendation.

(there are a bunch of others, these are the top of the list. Follow these rules and you're usually right in there for certified sweeps)


So, now, you got the info you need: go forth and do a system to be proud of.

Good Luck.

Scott

(I'm hopeing this makes it into Jack's Library of cool links for future reference ... maybe even someday, it can grow up to be an Andy Hui FAQ :D )
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,704
5,824
146
Scott, can I copy and post this with a credit to you when needed?? Nice post!
:D
 

JW310

Golden Member
Oct 30, 1999
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Originally posted by: Thoreau
Originally posted by: ivwshane
So then I would have to wire the cat5 specifically to be used for the phone lines? So I couldn't just easily turn an rj45 jack into an rj11 jack with out having to rewire the jack (if it was already wired for ethernet)?

Not unless you re-terminate the cords of your phones to have rj45 plugs on them. =) I personally got a little creative with some of my apartment wiring (yeah, generally a bad idea, but hey.. what the apartment doesn't know won't hurt them.) Firstly, if you have the space and the money, i HIGHLY recommend going with 6 plug (terminology?) wall plates. The ones I picked up have 6 parts that can snap out (and back in if need be) and that allows for future expansion beyond the typical 2-3 plug plates. In your case, it might be best to run a couple cat5 cables just to make things easier. Three would be optimal.. One for voice (which would only run at 1/4 capacity if you only have one phone line), one for data, and another as a backup. The extra spots on the wall plate come in handy sometimes. I tossed in jacks to pass video and audio from my bedroom out to the livingroom. I also pulled the COAX cable over to the same outlet and added plugs for that.

In summary, I ramble a lot. =)


In my (somewhat limited) experience with this, RJ11 plugs fit just fine into RJ45 jacks, they're just a tad bit smaller than the jack they're being plugged into.

JW
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,351
16,727
136
Originally posted by: JW310

In my (somewhat limited) experience with this, RJ11 plugs fit just fine into RJ45 jacks, they're just a tad bit smaller than the jack they're being plugged into.

JW

So are you saying that something like that does indeed work?
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,704
5,824
146
yes it does. Here is the downside:
The RJ45 plug is wider, and has two more little metal contactor wires than the typical phone jack. sometimes the two outside contactor wires get bent by a phone plug being plugged into them.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,704
5,824
146
you could literally trim down the corners of the phone plug so as not to bend the wires, looking at one right now, that would work fine:D
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,704
5,824
146
Serious, it would work fine:D
I have done that patch panel thing a few times, and it is slick. I hardwire the back side of one end for phone jacks, and then make jumpers to put tone (phone) in the runs you want, and data in the rest. A room that needs two data and no phone, no problem:)