Revitalizing The Party Of Ideas?

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
From the files of the DLC: Why Gore Lost- Revitalizing The Party Of Ideas
As campaign 2000 unfolded, it was widely assumed that Vice President Al Gore would run the third straight presidential race on the New Democrat themes that he and Bill Clinton rode to victory in 1992 and 1996. But the Gore campaign often looked and sounded like a throwback to the doomed Democratic campaigns of the 1980s, replete with vintage class warfare themes and narrowly tailored appeals to constituency groups. This backsliding from reform-minded centrism to interest group liberalism was a key factor in turning a race Gore should have won handily into a virtual tie.

To be sure, Gore voiced some key New Democrat themes: preserving fiscal discipline by paying down the national debt, support (though heavily qualified) for expanding trade, and a commitment to vigorous U.S. global leadership backed by a strong military. By last September, however, those themes had been overshadowed by Gore's business-bashing "populism" and a laundry list of poll-tested programs and promises aimed at specific slices of the electorate. Often these proposals had merit; seniors really do need a prescription drug benefit. But the campaign's inability to articulate any sense of public purpose larger than the expansion of government for the benefit of favored groups also reinforced George W. Bush's charge that Gore was really a big spending liberal -- "Mondale with a surplus," in the tart description of one observer.

Where Clinton had spoken to broad middle-class aspirations and values, Gore framed his appeals to particular group interests. The Gore campaign Web site invited visitors to select from a list of interest or identity group affiliations, so that they could be steered quickly to custom-tailored proposals for that group. Campaign scheduling also reinforced the interest-group oriented message. Gore's unmodulated performance on the stump fed the damaging public perception that he "would say anything" to get elected.

The point here is not that Gore should have shunned the party's most loyal constituencies. No Democrat can win without their support, and no one can argue they did not do their job in 2000. But in an era of political parity, Democrats cannot build electoral majorities by narrow appeals to traditional constituency groups. To build a new progressive majority, Democrats must appeal both to their base and to new constituencies -- wired workers, Gen Xers, suburban women and independents -- on the basis of crosscutting ideas and values.

When the Gore campaign finally hit upon an overarching theme, "fighting for the people, not the powerful," it had a contrived feel. It's the sort of line campaign consultants love because it gets a strong response in focus groups. It didn't appear to grow naturally out of Gore's political biography or a considered analysis of the structural inequities of American capitalism. Indeed, Gore's combative "populism" was jarringly out of sync with a population basically satisfied with the country's direction and heartily sick of partisan warfare. It was also confusing: When an incumbent with a strong record adopts the rhetoric of an insurgent, he gives the impression of running against himself. "The biggest problem," lamented one Gore campaign aide, "was that our message didn't fit our policy."

After all, the strongest argument for a Gore presidency was the one that most voters already agreed with: America had made great progress on the Clinton-Gore watch and continued to move in the right direction. Gore was instrumental in shaping the policies that helped restore fiscal discipline, spur the emergence of an explosively inventive New Economy, produce the longest and strongest economic expansion in memory, reduce violent crime and welfare dependency, and create a relatively stable international environment in which American interests and values have rarely been more secure. In the end, the strength of these fundamentals came achingly close to overcoming an ill-conceived and ill-executed presidential campaign. But not close enough -- and Democrats who wonder how victory slipped from their hands must now assess the costs of that failure.

In exchanging a winning New Democrat message for a faux populism and narrow appeals to interest groups, the Gore campaign lost the political ground his party had gained during the last decade along five critical philosophical dimensions: the role of government, economic opportunity, civic responsibility, mainstream values, and security.
....

Sound familiar? Why didn't the democrats learn?

Read the whole link and then read the others in the DLC's "Why Gore Lost" collection here

Anyway - I fully expect this to sink to the bottom or be dismissed as old like the "Politics of Evasion" links I've shared in the past. Suit yourself democrats...it's your loss.

CsG
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Damn, what have I been saying lately? Guess there could be a hint of truth ;)

After the relative success of Clinton, the Dems reverted back to the Ted Kennedy school of east-coast Arch-Liberalism, ala Mondale/Dukakis
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
I think it's just your GOP-influenced perception that makes you think Kerry didn't run on a moderate platform.

Despite the droning talking-points spewing idiot blabbering heads screaming "LIBERAL!" on FoxTV, Kerry didn't advocate getting out of Iraq. He advocated getting the job done better/faster. He didn't advocate raising taxes, he was pushing for further tax cuts for the middle class. He wasn't saying we should give up the war on terror, he was saying we should pursue it aggressively and smarter. He was advocating spending programs but he was showing ways to pay for it. If anything, Kerry was promising more fiscal responsibility than Bush.

If anything, Kerry failed to persuede the average voter that Bush wasn't the ideal candidate for the middle class. On virtually every single issue, Bush favored big industry/corporate America and not the little guy. I just don't think Kerry was persuasive enough or spent enough time pounding home the message.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Damn, what have I been saying lately? Guess there could be a hint of truth ;)

After the relative success of Clinton, the Dems reverted back to the Ted Kennedy school of east-coast Arch-Liberalism, ala Mondale/Dukakis

Meh - they won't listen - they didn't before - they won't now. I posted some works by the DLC before and they were totally dismissed and no one really discussed the contents and substance. Someday the leftists here will be forced to re-evaluate themselves....might take a few more losses though by the looks of the denial levels.

CsG
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Hey Cad, why don't we flip this around a bit? Just for fun. Riddle me this:

1.) How do you think Bush appealed to a much broader demographic as opposed to Kerry? What specific platform or policy led to Bush's wider appeal?

2.) With narrow victories in both 2000 and 2004, the differences between the parties were maybe 1%-2% and a lot less in certain battleground states. Exactly how much to the Democrats need to re-evaluate themselves? The race was tight no matter how you look at it. The extent of the Democrat's re-evaluation may simply be to run a better candidate.

While I don't have anything personally invested in either party, my opinion is that the Democrats appeared to run a campaign in 2004 that genuinely appealed to the middle class. They had specific programs and policies ready to go that would truly benefit a wide swath of people in this country. On the other side, Bush pretty much carried the vote on two things: One, his tough stance on Iraq/WoT and two, his "moral" values.
 

MidasKnight

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2004
3,288
0
76
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Damn, what have I been saying lately? Guess there could be a hint of truth ;)

After the relative success of Clinton, the Dems reverted back to the Ted Kennedy school of east-coast Arch-Liberalism, ala Mondale/Dukakis

Meh - they won't listen - they didn't before - they won't now. I posted some works by the DLC before and they were totally dismissed and no one really discussed the contents and substance. Someday the leftists here will be forced to re-evaluate themselves....might take a few more losses though by the looks of the denial levels.

CsG

These Leftist here will not. But the Democratic Party might if they take back their Party from the Leftist who dominate it now. Advice for the moderate Democrats ... ignore these Leftist in your Party ... they'll still vote Democratic Party anyway.

 

MidasKnight

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2004
3,288
0
76
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Hey Cad, why don't we flip this around a bit? Just for fun. Riddle me this:

1.) How do you think Bush appealed to a much broader demographic as opposed to Kerry? What specific platform or policy led to Bush's wider appeal?

2.) With narrow victories in both 2000 and 2004, the differences between the parties were maybe 1%-2% and a lot less in certain battleground states. Exactly how much to the Democrats need to re-evaluate themselves? The race was tight no matter how you look at it. The extent of the Democrat's re-evaluation may simply be to run a better candidate.

While I don't have anything personally invested in either party, my opinion is that the Democrats appeared to run a campaign in 2004 that genuinely appealed to the middle class. They had specific programs and policies ready to go that would truly benefit a wide swath of people in this country. On the other side, Bush pretty much carried the vote on two things: One, his tough stance on Iraq/WoT and two, his "moral" values.



Answer to #1 : You answered it yourself with this " One, his tough stance on Iraq/WoT and two, his "moral" values. "
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: MidasKnight
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Damn, what have I been saying lately? Guess there could be a hint of truth ;)

After the relative success of Clinton, the Dems reverted back to the Ted Kennedy school of east-coast Arch-Liberalism, ala Mondale/Dukakis

Meh - they won't listen - they didn't before - they won't now. I posted some works by the DLC before and they were totally dismissed and no one really discussed the contents and substance. Someday the leftists here will be forced to re-evaluate themselves....might take a few more losses though by the looks of the denial levels.

CsG

These Leftist here will not. But the Democratic Party might if they take back their Party from the Leftist who dominate it now. Advice for the moderate Democrats ... ignore these Leftist in your Party ... they'll still vote Democratic Party anyway.

I think they're going to have to drive a stake through the heart of the far left:

Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: conjur
The left is enraged right now. Just depends on if they can organize themselves or not.

I think disorganized & introspective would be more accurate, let's see, the presidency, the house, the senate, legislative branch is next....

Or are you ignoring the Democratic leadership?
I'm talking about the voters. They are the ones that will force the hands of the DNC and the DLC.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,751
6,502
126
It takes a real clown to think the Democratic party is left. The problem with the Democratic party is that they are right-lite. What the Democratic party needs is the balls to run a progressive candidate. They have been bought off by business just like the Republicans have. We get only right or right lite and that's why people don't give two sh!ts about politics and could care less about Kerry or Gore.

What is wrong with the Democratic party is that they don't dump the DLC.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It takes a real clown to think the Democratic party is left. The problem with the Democratic party is that they are right-lite. What the Democratic party needs is the balls to run a progressive candidate. They have been bought off by business just like the Republicans have. We get only right or right lite and that's why people don't give two sh!ts about politics and could care less about Kerry or Gore.

What is wrong with the Democratic party is that they don't dump the DLC.

Ding! Winnar! :beer:

 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
I agree with a lot of what the author of the NDOL article had to say about the artificial populism of the Gore campaign. He's also dead on in regards to how senseless it was to use the tactics of an insurgent when Gore in fact was the incumbent's heir. (However, I still think that what really lost the campaign for Gore was with Clinton's mistakes and Gore's personality, not the stuff that was talked about in the article.)

But CAD, I don't think the article is very relevent to the recent Kerry campaign. There was relatively little populism there and what's more, using that tactic makes sense for an insurgent candidate.

But the Democratic Party might if they take back their Party from the Leftist who dominate it now.
Puh-lease. The Democratic party and the nation in general are must less leftist now than they were in the 60's & 70's. The Democratic party has been increasingly less on the left with each election. It just doesn't seem like it to you because you think they sould be as far on the right as the Republicans.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
"The Democratic party and the nation in general are must less leftist now than they were in the 60's & 70's."

You sure? I've been saying that and was attacked for it. These die-hards can't see reality, much less try and make their party winners.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It takes a real clown to think the Democratic party is left. The problem with the Democratic party is that they are right-lite. What the Democratic party needs is the balls to run a progressive candidate. They have been bought off by business just like the Republicans have. We get only right or right lite and that's why people don't give two sh!ts about politics and could care less about Kerry or Gore.

What is wrong with the Democratic party is that they don't dump the DLC.

You could be right...
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It takes a real clown to think the Democratic party is left. The problem with the Democratic party is that they are right-lite. What the Democratic party needs is the balls to run a progressive candidate. They have been bought off by business just like the Republicans have. We get only right or right lite and that's why people don't give two sh!ts about politics and could care less about Kerry or Gore.

What is wrong with the Democratic party is that they don't dump the DLC.

Ding! Winnar! :beer:

Hey, be my guest. It'll be great if you run such a candidate in '08. Ofcourse you'll have a Clinton(DLC) problem to deal with but hey - go far left if you want to - I don't mind:)

CsG
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
"The Democratic party and the nation in general are must less leftist now than they were in the 60's & 70's."

You sure? I've been saying that and was attacked for it. These die-hards can't see reality, much less try and make their party winners.

You haven't been saying that. You've been saying that the Democrats are too leftists and the country is moving towards the right.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Go for it! Turn that sucker left...

The arrogance and elitism has such a grip. They can't be wrong. They are the smartest of the smart and their ideas reign supreme! They would rather lie to themselves and drag the ship down than accept the practical political realities that exist. Instead of working with what there is, their delusions of grandeur keep them in a state of denial. After all -they think- we are superior and have the best ideas by far! The masses MUST see this and have no other choice but to follow. We don't have to bend to those stupid mainstream mobs, they will clearly bend to us and realize we know what's best! Right???

As CAD said, Rove and Bush thank you.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
"You haven't been saying that. You've been saying that the Democrats are too leftists and the country is moving towards the right."

Yes the country has politically moved right. Yes the Dems lean to far left to often. And yes, the Dems are less leftist than before.

Is there a contradiction?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
How far right is the country going? Mussolini? Franco? Hitler? Your not going to go much farther right without making it a official theocratic dictatorship.
The left needs to head back to party values and quit the pandering to the clueless sheep, they are headed off to religious wars soon to bring about their rapture anyhow.
Good luck to them, dying for oil and all
watch out for those iraqi haircuts I hear there a bit close.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Guys, continuting to repeat this chant isn't going to make it any more true.

FUD: The Democrats are too far to the left.
Fact: Kerry and Gore captured more than 50% of the voters who called themselves Moderate in 2004 and 2000.

FUD: The Democrats don't connect with voters on important issues.
Fact: The voters who's primary concerns were the economy, Iraq, education and health care tended strongly towards Kerry (70% or more) while Bush only managed to capture terrorism and morality voters. Taxes was the only issue Kerry and Bush were close on.

FUD: The Democrats and the left need to reevaluate their views and issues to become more in-line with "America".
Fact: The margin of victory in this election (3%) is the closest in recent history (other than 2000). In 2000, Gore actually got more of the popular vote than Bush did. For your enjoyment and comparison, here are the last several margin's of victory in the popular vote.
1996: 9% (Clinton beat Dole)
1992: 6% (Clinton beat Bush)
1988: 8% (Bush beat Dukakis)
1984: 18% (Reagan beat Mondale)
1980: 9% (Reagan beat Carter)
1976: 2% (Carter beat Ford)

So let's see, we have to go back almost 30 years to find an election that's been even close to how close this election was. Ever other president (except Bush) has had double or better on their margin of victory since Carter. And let's not forget, Bush's only strong issues were temporal issues, terrorism and gay marriage. On the issues that continue to matter over time, like the economy, education, health care and taxes, Kerry soundly beat Bush in 3 of them.


Look, call me a diehard fanatic all you want. But the fact is that I've looked at the facts and nothing I'm seeing supports the conclusion you are trying to push. Unlike some of you, apparently, I need FACTS before I make a decision on something. CSG's and cwjerome's gut feelings just aren't going to convince me. The fact that you guys continue to harp on this provable false conclusion leads me to believe you are seeing whaht you want to see. I have seen no one on the left predicting the death of liberalism, just a bunch of right wingers who were anti-left before the election. Do I suspect your motives and objectivity? Obviously, just as you should suspect mine. And that's why we have these things called facts, because while they are open to interpretation, it's harder to twist them to say what you want.

But you know what, I'm an openminded guy here, and I like the scientific approach. So let's hear the reason you think the left is dying. Show me some facts, let's see some logic. Saying, "The left is dying because America doesn't like the left" is a circular argument, and the facts would seem to indicate you are wrong.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,751
595
126
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I think it's just your GOP-influenced perception that makes you think Kerry didn't run on a moderate platform.

Despite the droning talking-points spewing idiot blabbering heads screaming "LIBERAL!" on FoxTV, Kerry didn't advocate getting out of Iraq. He advocated getting the job done better/faster. He didn't advocate raising taxes, he was pushing for further tax cuts for the middle class. He wasn't saying we should give up the war on terror, he was saying we should pursue it aggressively and smarter. He was advocating spending programs but he was showing ways to pay for it. If anything, Kerry was promising more fiscal responsibility than Bush.

If anything, Kerry failed to persuede the average voter that Bush wasn't the ideal candidate for the middle class. On virtually every single issue, Bush favored big industry/corporate America and not the little guy. I just don't think Kerry was persuasive enough or spent enough time pounding home the message.

Kerry did not do a good job breaking the early perceptions that were formed of him by the Bush teams aggressive ad campaign.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
"You haven't been saying that. You've been saying that the Democrats are too leftists and the country is moving towards the right."

Yes the country has politically moved right. Yes the Dems lean to far left to often. And yes, the Dems are less leftist than before.

Is there a contradiction?

I see what you're saying now, my mistake, that isn't contradictory. Am I the only one who thinks a move to the right would only be temporary? If you look at history, "liberal" ideas almost always become accepted over a reasonably long period of time. Look at conservative and liberal values from 100 years ago, 50 years ago, or 20 years ago and tell me what's mainstream now.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Rainsford, I'll let you in on a little secret.

The Dems can indeed get many more people to their side. It won't be because of the raving elites who think half of America is stupid ass ignorant slobs... that's just common sense. The Dems have to play the game... politics is pragmaticism in practice. They will have to find way to reach out, connect, and MOVE more people into their cause. This can't happen tomorrow, it's a strategic long term plan to appeal to others and show them your way is better. They have to trust you, and trust isn't built overnight.

If you think you can throw out some economic stat and people will vote for you it's crazy. The Dems are out of touch with Middle America (and you know why I think that is). There are simply more conservative leaning people than liberal leaning people. You have to break through.