Revisiting XP Activation and Selling Your Soul

[garystewart]

Hi,

Recently I was deciding whether to build a new box or upgrade my motherboard and processor. Curious as to whether I would have any activation problems, since this was a purchased build with factory OEM... no repair option...
I searched some forums and found at least two people who claimed to have been told by Microsoft that they consider a new board and processor a new box... if you have an OEM XP Build. Has anyone experienced this? If it is true, it is so outrageous it deserves full page articles on every major hardware site. (Please don't tell me about workarounds... I'm not stupid) But if it is true, I don't intend to have anyone make me a thief and liar and stoop! That is really a total surrender of one's liberty of the worst sort ... this is a matter of principle!!! If its is true, and they don't understand upgrade, for reasons of greed... someone has to call them on this outrageous policy... Any comments, experiences... etc... Thanks! Again, remember, I am not talking about the possible but the principle, so no hacks, fixes etc... that is not what this is about!!! It is about paying for your own slavery, and shedding your honesty if you do a fix or a hack!!! I never really thought about it much, but now it is starting to make me realize it is a subtle way of selling your soul... seems innocent, and not a big deal, but it is a total debasement... think about it...

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Gary, did you forget to take your pills again?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Don't like it? Use consumer friendly software.

 

[Amused]

I've built whole new systems and loaded versions of XP on them that were on previous systems and never had a problem. (my old systems were loaded with OSes bought by the people I handed the old machines down to) After a certain period of time, MS seems to forget previous activations and gives you three online activations again. My XP pro has been on three machines since I bought it. The only time I needed to do an activation over the phone was when I blew it up four times in two weeks trying to OC a machine.

This is a lot of hot air over nothing.

 

[buckmasterson]

I've upgraded & activated 3 times on the XP CD I own. The phone support asks pointed questions. If you have nothing to hide and answer them, it is no problem. If you ever have a problem with a Microsoft Tech, thank them, hang up, then call back. Unless you feel the need to go into the "it is starting to make me realize it is a subtle way of selling your soul" thing. In which case if I were a Microsoft Tech, I'd hang up on you.

 

[garystewart]

Okay guys... you can think I'm crazy... I never gave this the slightest thought before... and I wasn't smoking anything either, but I am making a point that is still true... there is a slow erosion effect here and step by step people are getting boxed in by newer and more irrational limitations, and yes, these guys are a monopoly... you think most people will throw away thousands of dollars of software for a box that's good for wp and spreadsheets... come on... there is this whole power and control thing going on... if everyone is a criminal, then they have the option to put the thumbscrews on anyone at will... you can shrug, pretend and say, yeah it's night when its day, but then you are doing the whole compliance in a lie thing... the only way you can deal with that kind of bullying is to hit them where they hurt... the customer base... Okay, I said my piece... but I think there is more to the issue than you guys will admit...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: garystewart
Okay guys... you can think I'm crazy... I never gave this the slightest thought before... and I wasn't smoking anything either, but I am making a point that is still true... there is a slow erosion effect here and step by step people are getting boxed in by newer and more irrational limitations, and yes, these guys are a monopoly... you think most people will throw away thousands of dollars of software for a box that's good for wp and spreadsheets... come on... there is this whole power and control thing going on... if everyone is a criminal, then they have the option to put the thumbscrews on anyone at will... you can shrug, pretend and say, yeah it's night when its day, but then you are doing the whole compliance in a lie thing... the only way you can deal with that kind of bullying is to hit them where they hurt... the customer base... Okay, I said my piece... but I think there is more to the issue than you guys will admit...

Oh bullsh!t. MS was forced into this by people buying one copy and using it on as many machines as they could simultaneously. And in my experience, the people who complain about this VERY simple and seamless activation the most are those who want to do just that: Use the OS on more than one machine.

MS is NOT a monopoly. There is nothing you can do on XP that cannot be done on another OS.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: garystewart
Okay guys... you can think I'm crazy... I never gave this the slightest thought before... and I wasn't smoking anything either, but I am making a point that is still true... there is a slow erosion effect here and step by step people are getting boxed in by newer and more irrational limitations, and yes, these guys are a monopoly... you think most people will throw away thousands of dollars of software for a box that's good for wp and spreadsheets... come on... there is this whole power and control thing going on... if everyone is a criminal, then they have the option to put the thumbscrews on anyone at will... you can shrug, pretend and say, yeah it's night when its day, but then you are doing the whole compliance in a lie thing... the only way you can deal with that kind of bullying is to hit them where they hurt... the customer base... Okay, I said my piece... but I think there is more to the issue than you guys will admit...

Use consumer friendly software. I feel like I'm repeating myself here. Sheesh.

 

[Farfrael]

Originally posted by: Amused MS is NOT a monopoly. There is nothing you can do on XP that cannot be done on another OS.

Microsoft IS a convicted monopoly
And, how is the second part of your sentence relevant to anything ?


I agree that the initial poster seems to have a peculiar opinion on these matters, but as n0cmonkey said " Don't like it? Use consumer friendly software".
Nobody forced garystewart to buy a product from Microsoft.

 

[ifix]

my 2 cents
ammused said
Oh bullsh!t. MS was forced into this by people buying one copy and using it on as many machines as they could simultaneously. And in my experience, the people who complain about this VERY simple and seamless activation the most are those who want to do just that: Use the OS on more than one machine.

MS FORCED? lets understand something Bill Gates has MADE A LOT of MONEY in a short period of time, you don't get that rich that quick with out a huge mark-up. what i'm trying to say is those who STEAL his software are not hearting his bottom line"PROFIT" all that much as a percentage

and yes i also resent haveing to jump though hoops when i format,which i do on average every 6 months!!

 

[8ballcoupe]

Microsoft's use of the activation procedure hardly constitutes a major league erosion of human rights.

The difference between an OEM Windows version and a retail Windows version is that the OEM might be (or might not be) locked into a specific BIOS identifier or into some specific combination of system features. If the installation procedure doesn't see the system it's expecting, then it may refuse to install. If it installs you probably won't have any trouble going through activation. If you've reactivated that copy fairly recently you may have to make the phone call. Big deal.

Microsoft is a business selling license for the USE of software. In the case of an OEM OS copy you get the operating system, effectively, for LESS MONEY than you would have paid if you had purchased a retail copy. For that consideration you are expected to adhere to the slightly different EULA.

If you don't like that arrangement then deal with a computer vendor that sells you a retail (instead of OEM) copy of the OS with the system. Or just get a system with a different OS. Or just bite the bullet, get a retail version and blow away the OEM installation. Most OEM Windows, the ones that are included within an entire system image including other software, are really pretty annoying to use anyway.

Ernie

 

[drag]

Bah.

First off when your buying OEM software your accepting restrictions on the software in exchange for a cheaper price. (next time get a retail version, the OEM stuff is gray market-like stuff anyways.)

Secondly if you don't like MS products or their attitudes you don't have to take it. Nobody is forcing you to use their products, if you don't like it there are alternatives. There is a much bigger price you pay by settling on MS software then $$, but if you use their software you just have to eat it. If it wasn't for their attitudes and restrictions on their software they don't beleive they would be in business, so I don't think they are going to change any time soon.

So next time you have to activate MS software just remember that your volunteering for it.

(also more people won't call you crazy if you format your posts in sentences and paragraphs so that they are easier to read, it cuts down on the rant factor)

 

[ScrapSilicon]

thought I'd dropped into OS forum but read the op's post and thought I was in ATOT.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Farfrael

Originally posted by: Amused MS is NOT a monopoly. There is nothing you can do on XP that cannot be done on another OS.

Microsoft IS a convicted monopoly
And, how is the second part of your sentence relevant to anything ?

It is proof that any claim MS is a monopoly is pure crap. If one can fuction fully without MS, MS is not a monopoly. My electric company is a monopoly... I cannot buy electricity from anyone else. MS is NOT a monopoly, because I have MANY fully viable OS choices.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ifix
my 2 cents
ammused said
Oh bullsh!t. MS was forced into this by people buying one copy and using it on as many machines as they could simultaneously. And in my experience, the people who complain about this VERY simple and seamless activation the most are those who want to do just that: Use the OS on more than one machine.

MS FORCED? lets understand something Bill Gates has MADE A LOT of MONEY in a short period of time, you don't get that rich that quick with out a huge mark-up. what i'm trying to say is those who STEAL his software are not hearting his bottom line"PROFIT" all that much as a percentage

and yes i also resent haveing to jump though hoops when i format,which i do on average every 6 months!!

How much money Bill Gates has made is irrelevant. How much he marks up his product is irrelevant. Morality does not change based on the relative wealth of the parties involved. Bill and company deserve to be paid for the product of their labor every bit as much as you and I. If you don't like how much money they charge or profit they make, don't buy or use their products. Not liking how much he makes or profits does not make theft OK.

 

[Fiveohhh]

If your really that t'd off about it go use linux its free and had no activation stuff, there are plenty of options besides windows...

 

[Farfrael]

Originally posted by: Amused
It is proof that any claim MS is a monopoly is pure crap. If one can fuction fully without MS, MS is not a monopoly. My electric company is a monopoly... I cannot buy electricity from anyone else. MS is NOT a monopoly, because I have MANY fully viable OS choices.

Funny how some people (read judges) seem to disagree with you.
I will repeat myself but Microsoft IS a convicted monopoly, so unless you can prove me wrong i'd really appreciate if you could stop lying about this fact.

Now, i do agree with you that no one should use Microsoft products unless they legally acquire them and accept all the restrictions coming with them.

Just to make sure : you work for Microsoft, don't you ?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Farfrael

Originally posted by: Amused
It is proof that any claim MS is a monopoly is pure crap. If one can fuction fully without MS, MS is not a monopoly. My electric company is a monopoly... I cannot buy electricity from anyone else. MS is NOT a monopoly, because I have MANY fully viable OS choices.

Funny how some people (read judges) seem to disagree with you.
I will repeat myself but Microsoft IS a convicted monopoly, so unless you can prove me wrong i'd really appreciate if you could stop lying about this fact.

Now, i do agree with you that no one should use Microsoft products unless they legally acquire them and accept all the restrictions coming with them.

Just to make sure : you work for Microsoft, don't you ?

"Real judges" once ruled on Dred Scott. Did that make it right?

Citing a court ruling does not trump a debate, just so you know in the future.

Again, the fact that one can use another OS means that MS is not a monopoly... no matter how many anti-capitalism judges may say it is. Your repeated suggestions that people use another OS proves this. If you need help, look up the definition of "monopoly."

And no, I don't work for MS.

 

[rbV5]

seems innocent, and not a big deal, but it is a total debasement... think about it...

Total debasement? Gimme a break, you got what you paid for. You agreed with the EULA, if you don't like it, its your own fault. Total Debasement indeed, how about slander?

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: garystewart
Okay guys... you can think I'm crazy... I never gave this the slightest thought before... and I wasn't smoking anything either, but I am making a point that is still true... there is a slow erosion effect here and step by step people are getting boxed in by newer and more irrational limitations, and yes, these guys are a monopoly... you think most people will throw away thousands of dollars of software for a box that's good for wp and spreadsheets... come on... there is this whole power and control thing going on... if everyone is a criminal, then they have the option to put the thumbscrews on anyone at will... you can shrug, pretend and say, yeah it's night when its day, but then you are doing the whole compliance in a lie thing... the only way you can deal with that kind of bullying is to hit them where they hurt... the customer base... Okay, I said my piece... but I think there is more to the issue than you guys will admit...

Oh bullsh!t. MS was forced into this by people buying one copy and using it on as many machines as they could simultaneously. And in my experience, the people who complain about this VERY simple and seamless activation the most are those who want to do just that: Use the OS on more than one machine.

MS is NOT a monopoly. There is nothing you can do on XP that cannot be done on another OS.

Also note, several Linux distros are considering moving in the direction, or have already reached the ideology of subscription based software. Redhat is a good example.

 

[EeyoreX]

First: As has been said; Don't like the policies or attitudes of the company, there are plenty of other choices.

Second: Microsoft is neither the first, nor will it be the last company to use product activation. Get used to it.

\Dan

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: DaZ

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: garystewart
Okay guys... you can think I'm crazy... I never gave this the slightest thought before... and I wasn't smoking anything either, but I am making a point that is still true... there is a slow erosion effect here and step by step people are getting boxed in by newer and more irrational limitations, and yes, these guys are a monopoly... you think most people will throw away thousands of dollars of software for a box that's good for wp and spreadsheets... come on... there is this whole power and control thing going on... if everyone is a criminal, then they have the option to put the thumbscrews on anyone at will... you can shrug, pretend and say, yeah it's night when its day, but then you are doing the whole compliance in a lie thing... the only way you can deal with that kind of bullying is to hit them where they hurt... the customer base... Okay, I said my piece... but I think there is more to the issue than you guys will admit...

Oh bullsh!t. MS was forced into this by people buying one copy and using it on as many machines as they could simultaneously. And in my experience, the people who complain about this VERY simple and seamless activation the most are those who want to do just that: Use the OS on more than one machine.

MS is NOT a monopoly. There is nothing you can do on XP that cannot be done on another OS.

Also note, several Linux distros are considering moving in the direction, or have already reached the ideology of subscription based software. Redhat is a good example.

But you can still get the free software for free. (you probably know that, just want to make it clear)

And being a monopoly isn't illegal, it's what you do as a monopoly.

 

[hamltnblue]

I cant stand the activation process also but if I was MS I'd do the same thing. I worked in an office in the 90's that had 35 machines. They bought one copy of windows and office and installed on evey machine. Then allowed the employee's to take it home and install on their machine. Multiply by many thousands of businesses doing the same thing and it adds up.
As several have already stated, If you dont like it you can use another OS.
There is another option though. You can try to write your own OS. After 2 days of getting nowhere the 200 buck or so charge for windows doesn't seem too much anymore .

 

[cowdog]

I'm definately not a fan of activation. First of all, most people buy their computers from a large reseller. They buy the hardware and the OS together. In fact, I have known people who thought that Office was a part of Windows. Right out of the gates, most computers with Microsoft Windows are legit. An analogy to a car with an engine is not far off. Upgrades are where this gets a little fuzzy (i.e., a new engine), but with the rate of change in hardware, a lot of old systems won't run newer versions of Windows anyway. Time for another disposable computer/OS combo ...

Now think about the "enthusiast" who might actually buy an OS independently. That person may have a couple of DIY computers. OK, so let's say that person used one Windows lisence for both. Most of the time, a person will use only one computer at a time. But let's say the person uses both at the same time. Well, let's call that a home made multi-processor system.

The most likely abuser of non-activated software would be a builder/reseller. I just don't see end users as a significant abuser of Windows licenses. I am sure someone will step up and say, "back in 19xx, I knew of 100s of people who did blah, blah, blah." Well, we ain't in the 19xx anymore. Anymore computers are pretty much disposable items with operating systems that are, in essence, embedded with the hardware for the average user. On average, activation is almost a non-issue whether one likes it or not.

But, the bottom line is that there are alternatives such as Linux. However, linux can be a pain in the butt for most typical users. Installation, updates, drivers, loading software, etc. are frankly anything but intuitive. Let's be honest, Linux really isn't a viable alternative for the average computer user. It is getting better, but it just isn't there yet. The Mac is probably the best alternative, at a cost premium. And, given that most people will use Windows at work, it could be considered a handicap to not have a home computer running Windows (in essence, self training at home).

Microsoft is free to use activation (so far). Yep, that's the way it is. Microsoft is a control freak company, and I don't think that will help them over the long term. Personally, I think Microsoft would do much better by offering things like family packs with x licenses for a good deal. For the small percentage of people who would actually have computers without an "engine," I would guess that most of them would be happy to be license compliant.

That's just how I see it sitting in front of a system running a 64 bit Linux OS...

 

[Pocatello]

If you don't want to use M$ products, don't, there are plenty of good choices out there. Hopefully with more competitions, we don't have to pay so much for Windows XP or Office.