Reverse-discrimination?

[RickBean]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-08/same-sex-marriage-primed-for-review-as-u-s-high-court-gathers.html
Well, please, tell me, what do you think about same-sex marriages? About legalization of gay marriages in states and about LGBT propaganda(of course if you think that it exists.)?
I can't understand, why homosexualists often talks about discrimination, but when they discriminates somebody - they keep silence?
Why if man don't wanna bake cakes for 'em - he's bandit http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/baker-faces-complaint-refusing-make-anti-gay-cakes-n291771
But when gay bakeries don't wanna bake cakes, everybody think that it's ok?!
http://shoebat.com/2014/12/12/christian-man-asks-thirteen-gay-bakeries-bake-pro-traditional-marriage-cake-denied-service-watch-shocking-video/

 

[glenn1]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-08/same-sex-marriage-primed-for-review-as-u-s-high-court-gathers.html
Well, please, tell me, what do you think about same-sex marriages? About legalization of gay marriages in states and about LGBT propaganda(of course if you think that it exists.)?
I can't understand, why homosexualists often talks about discrimination, but when they discriminates somebody - they keep silence?
Why if man don't wanna bake cakes for 'em - he's bandit http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/baker-faces-complaint-refusing-make-anti-gay-cakes-n291771
But when gay bakeries don't wanna bake cakes, everybody think that it's ok?!
http://shoebat.com/2014/12/12/christian-man-asks-thirteen-gay-bakeries-bake-pro-traditional-marriage-cake-denied-service-watch-shocking-video/

To be fair, if you're going to enforce public accomodations laws against bakers refusing to make cakes for gay couples you should likewise enforce them against gay bakers refusing to write "gay marriage is wrong" on a cake. It was kinda a dick move in trying to provoke a reaction from the gay bakers that way but equal treatment goes both ways.

 

[Newell Steamer]

This notion that denouncing the message "God Hates Gays" is an attack on heterosexuals is just utter and total bullshit. And, even more so that it should be protected. This is just another example of how haters are pretending to be racked across the coals,.. tsk, tsk.

You want to open your mouth and preach hate (or 'reality'), then be prepared to deal with the consequences. And, don't expect to covered & protected in any manner.

Freedom of speech != speech without consequences.

Furthermore, buy the fucking cake and write on it whatever message you damn well feel like - it's not that hard.

 

[glenn1]

This notion that denouncing the message "God Hates Gays" is an attack on heterosexuals is just utter and total bullshit. And, even more so that it should be protected. This is just another example of how haters are pretending to be racked across the coals,.. tsk, tsk.

You want to open your mouth and preach hate (or 'reality'), then be prepared to deal with the consequences. And, don't expect to covered & protected in any manner.

Freedom of speech != speech without consequences.

Furthermore, buy the fucking cake and write on it whatever message you damn well feel like - it's not that hard.

Do public accomodation laws apply to both guys and straights or not? If so, then the gays bakers have no legal right to refuse making a "God hates slur deleted" cake just as a straight baker can't refuse a cake to a gay couple. The laws apply to every customer, even the ones who are assholes.

 

[fskimospy]

Do public accomodation laws apply to both guys and straights or not? If so, then the gays bakers have no legal right to refuse making a "God hates fags" cake just as a straight baker can't refuse a cake to a gay couple. The laws apply to every customer, even the ones who are assholes.

You do not understand public accommodation laws.

They must bake everyone who wants one a cake. They do not need to write whatever that person wants on the cake. This is why Walmart can refuse to make "Happy Birthday Hitler" cakes and things like that.

 

[Oyeve]

I dont see it as reverse discrimination. Whether the bakers believe it or not. I feel making those cakes would spread hate. Not baking them is the right thing to do whether they are for or against gay marriage.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Whether or not there is such a thing as reverse discrimination is completely based on whether or not you believe that discrimination is a individual trait or a collective trait.

Most people in a minority group believes that discrimination is a collective trait. Individuals can be prejudiced, but that is just a personality trait of an individual and really no different then dealing with any other jackass. It is when a society is prejudiced against a minority group, and that prejudice is reinforced by institutionalized norms, that you move into the realm of discrimination. In this manner, when looking at discrimination as a collective trait, we can see that the entire concept of reverse discrimination does not make sense.

The reason for this is that it is basically impossible to change peoples attitudes towards a minority group, but you can change societies norms of dealing with a minority group.

 

[cbrunny]

No one targeted pro-gay bakeries, but gay activists target Christian bakeries. “Support Gay Marriage” is one Christian bakery was sued for refusing to put that slogan on a cake for an event to support the gay agenda.

To make our case we provided 3 video clips, the third one is a video showing homosexual activists in Ireland used the state to force a Christian bakery to make a cake with the slogan “Support Gay Marriage” for a pro-gay marriage event, but he refused which added a tremendous loss to his business.

Aaaaand credibility GONE.

...if "shoebat.com" actually had any to begin with...

 

[Moonbeam]

Whether or not there is such a thing as reverse discrimination is completely based on whether or not you believe that discrimination is a individual trait or a collective trait.

Most people in a minority group believes that discrimination is a collective trait. Individuals can be prejudiced, but that is just a personality trait of an individual and really no different then dealing with any other jackass. It is when a society is prejudiced against a minority group, and that prejudice is reinforced by institutionalized norms, that you move into the realm of discrimination. In this manner, when looking at discrimination as a collective trait, we can see that the entire concept of reverse discrimination does not make sense.

The reason for this is that it is basically impossible to change peoples attitudes towards a minority group, but you can change societies norms of dealing with a minority group.

I find this post to be rather persuasive and intelligent.

 

[soulcougher73]

No such thing. Its all just plain ole discrimination.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I believe the bakeries should make the cake and let the buyers add the hate speech. And poor Christian Bakeries having to practise "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR", how awful! Think we need an amendment to separate commercial and religiondiculous?

 

[Gerle]

No such thing. Its all just plain ole discrimination.

Thank you.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Do public accomodation laws apply to both guys and straights or not? If so, then the gays bakers have no legal right to refuse making a "God hates slur deleted" cake just as a straight baker can't refuse a cake to a gay couple. The laws apply to every customer, even the ones who are assholes.

No one has been denied a cake.

And, again;

You want to open your mouth and preach hate (or 'reality'), then be prepared to deal with the consequences.

The consequences are that you 1) will get bashed and labeled a hate monger and 2) end up having to write you own message on the cake.

No government is going to back your demands to force someone to write anything on a cake. You can certainly run to Uncle Sam and ask him to shut down the business that refuses to sell you a cake.

But, let's be honest, this is nothing more than a a bunch of herp-a-derps pounding fists full of dirt on their chests and pretending they are being denied their rights and censored in their freedom of speech.

These claims of reverse-discrimination are nothing but trolls - period.

Stop pretending justice & equality is being enacted by forcing a business owner to write out a hate message on one of his/her products.

And, yes, a business owner should be forced to serve the paying public (i.e. sell things like goods and services) - otherwise, turn your retail commerce into a private club and be selective over who you let in and buy from you. That is the basis of a retail business; it's OPEN and inviting to all, regardless of what their personal preferences are.

What is done with or to the products after they a bought is up to the patron (barring all IP infringement, etc.),.. not the retailer,.. so there should be no expectations or demands to have the retailer fulfill or supplement the patron's intentions.

It's pretty basic. How and why it's being twisted into reverse-discrimination is beyond me,.. but, again, herp-a-derps be trolling.

 

[RickBean]

Case with bakeries is just an example(very good example, because i think that everybody see that LGBT community sometimes wants more rights that the average people want!), but in this thread i wanna talk about reverse-discrimination as "phenomenon", i can get much more examples and conspiracy theories, but it's interesting for me to know what is your opinion and if somebody think that it exists he will post about it here!

 

[SMOGZINN]

Case with bakeries is just an example(very good example, because i think that everybody see that LGBT community sometimes wants more rights that the average people want!), but in this thread i wanna talk about reverse-discrimination as "phenomenon", i can get much more examples and conspiracy theories, but it's interesting for me to know what is your opinion and if somebody think that it exists he will post about it here!

See, you seem to think that asking to be treated just like everyone else is getting more rights. How is wanting to buy a cake, or refuse to write hate speech on a cake, more rights? If you or I went into a bakery and asked for a cake they would have no problem selling it to either of us, if we wanted to write something offensive on that cake they would refuse. This is how it should work for everyone. But instead we have a company one one hand refusing to even sell LGBT people a cake at all, all because they are LGBT people, and on the other hand a bakery refusing to write something offensive on a cake, something they would have done to anyone. These things are not equivalent.

 

[nageov3t]

shockingly, different people have different opinions... there's no gay hive mind.

personally, even as a gay man I fully support the rights of non-essential service providers refusing to do business with whoever they want.

of course, if you're a doctor who refuses to treat black patients or a courthouse clerk who refuses to sign legal documents for Muslims, you might want to look into getting a new job.

 

[Moonbeam]

shockingly, different people have different opinions... there's no gay hive mind.

personally, even as a gay man I fully support the rights of non-essential service providers refusing to do business with whoever they want.

of course, if you're a doctor who refuses to treat black patients or a courthouse clerk who refuses to sign legal documents for Muslims, you might want to look into getting a new job.

I haveno problem with this so long as I get to decide what is nonessential.

 

[SMOGZINN]

shockingly, different people have different opinions... there's no gay hive mind.

personally, even as a gay man I fully support the rights of non-essential service providers refusing to do business with whoever they want.

of course, if you're a doctor who refuses to treat black patients or a courthouse clerk who refuses to sign legal documents for Muslims, you might want to look into getting a new job.

This sounds reasonable until you stop at a gas station in Valentine Texas that refuses to sell you gas because you are a transwoman, and the next gas station is 200 miles away.

 

[Jhhnn]

Whether or not there is such a thing as reverse discrimination is completely based on whether or not you believe that discrimination is a individual trait or a collective trait.

Most people in a minority group believes that discrimination is a collective trait. Individuals can be prejudiced, but that is just a personality trait of an individual and really no different then dealing with any other jackass. It is when a society is prejudiced against a minority group, and that prejudice is reinforced by institutionalized norms, that you move into the realm of discrimination. In this manner, when looking at discrimination as a collective trait, we can see that the entire concept of reverse discrimination does not make sense.

The reason for this is that it is basically impossible to change peoples attitudes towards a minority group, but you can change societies norms of dealing with a minority group.

See, you seem to think that asking to be treated just like everyone else as getting more rights. How is wanting to buy a cake, or refuse to write hate speach on a cake, more rights? If you or I went into a bakery and asked for a cake they would have no problem selling it to either of us, if we wanted to write something offensive on that cake they would refuse. This is how it should work for everyone. But instead we have a company one one hand refusing to even sell LGBT people a cake at all, all because they are LGBT people, and on the other hand a bakery refusing to write something offencive on a cake, something they would have done to anyone. These things are not equivalent.

Well, yeh, but modern conservatives rely on false equivalency to sustain belief, to uphold their "values". It's impossible to hate gays once you realize they do no harm, so imaginary harm is attached so that prejudice can be maintained. That's the purpose of "reverse discrimination" bullshit entirely.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Case with bakeries is just an example(very good example, because i think that everybody see that LGBT community sometimes wants more rights that the average people want!), but in this thread i wanna talk about reverse-discrimination as "phenomenon", i can get much more examples and conspiracy theories, but it's interesting for me to know what is your opinion and if somebody think that it exists he will post about it here!

What are some of these additional rights the LGBT community is petitioning for? Like, "hey, we want to get married too," or "hey, we like cake"... those aren't additional rights. That's all shit straight people can already do. Where are the bonus rights? Are there gays out there saying that they should be allowed to go 45 mph in school zones or skip paying taxes or get Bravo broadcast into every home in America? I've heard this claim that gay people want more rights, but I can't for the life of me figure out what those would be.

 

[Smoblikat]

I think this issue sheds light on the blatently apparent hypocrisy of minority groups who love "equality" when that means they get special treatment, but hate it when someone else gets the same treatment.

I dont even see how any business can be forced to serve anyone. Considering its completely private being funded privately by the owner, how can the government force him to serve someone else? Doesnt even make sense.

 

[fskimospy]

I think this issue sheds light on the blatently apparent hypocrisy of minority groups who love "equality" when that means they get special treatment, but hate it when someone else gets the same treatment.

I dont even see how any business can be forced to serve anyone. Considering its completely private being funded privately by the owner, how can the government force him to serve someone else? Doesnt even make sense.

Public accommodation laws put in place in response to organized discrimination against black people in the Jim Crow south.

As mentioned before, they must sell the person a cake but they do not need to write whatever the person demands on it.