Reusing HDs with bad sectors (I know, I know, this is not the usual

Fallingwater

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Typically, when a HD starts developing bad sectors, it means that it'll die soon and you should toss it. It's possible to low-level scan it with the manufacturer's software and mark the bad sectors so you can continue using it for a while, but eventually more bad sectors will develop and you'll be in the same situation again. This goes on faster and faster until the drive becomes utterly useless.

However... what if, instead of marking the bad sectors, one only partitions known-good space, leaving a large buffer of unused disk space around the defects?

Say... run badblocks, badblocks freaks out at sector whatever at 20% of its scan. You partition the disk from 0% to 15%, then from 25% to the end.
Run badblocks again on the second partition. Badblocks freaks out at 60%. You delete the second partition, and remake it from 25% to 55%. Repartition the rest.
You get the point. You keep doing this until there's no more space on the disk.

This results in much less available space than a simple bad sector scan-and-mark, and several small partitions which may or may not be a pain to manage, but it absolutely ensures that the heads won't stay for long in spaces where magnetic damage has occurred (they obviously can't be prevented from flying over them while looking for other data).

My theory is that by only minimally stressing damaged areas, one should lengthen the remaining lifespan of a damaged hard disk enough to do something useful with it - assuming, of course, that a head crash hasn't occurred, in which case total failure is just behind the corner and there isn't anything we can do.

Do you think this theory is sound?

Edit: I should mention I'm not that much of a miser that I must absolutely squeeze all disks up to their very end at the risk of my data; I ask more for those cases where getting a replacement drive might be a problem - for instance, I'm having trouble sourcing PATA laptop drives in decent condition to restore old laptops.
 
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razel

Platinum Member
May 14, 2002
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Yes you absolutely can especially if you have the knowledge and understand how its failing. It's usually not recommended since most people don't know or even if they do don't want to bother. HDD storage is CRAZY cheap and fast these days.

I do the same for old PATA laptop drives as USB storage for *throw away videos*. After some time, the ones I've been using needed SMART full scans too often to replace sectors where it bugged me enough that I moved on. No surprize that I ended up happier with the newer externals.

Take note that after an HDD reaches a point of replacing too many sectors, it will throw a SMART red flag where in many laptops will warn the user. It's often on every startup from the BIOS and/or within Windows itself, which you can ignore after awhile.
 

lsv

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Dec 18, 2009
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The thing is once the drive starts to fail and bad sectors being to crop up there's no guarantee that more won't appear.
 

Spikesoldier

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
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modern hard disks already do this its called sector reallocation

obviously when the drive runs out of 'spare' sectors to reallocate and address, bad sectors stick. this is why with even one bad sector a drive is considered defective.
 

aigomorla

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the bad sectors will be marked and the drive knows to avoid it.

But a bad sector is like a crack in a glass.
They grow.. and grow... and u will lose data.
 

greenhawk

Platinum Member
Feb 23, 2011
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I've done it before and can say it depends on your needs and how the bad clusters formed.

If they formed from head crashes / scratching the disk (large numbers next to each other), then doing what you suggest is fine. As mentioned, not using it for critical data. I used those disks as "post friendly" so if anything happened, in the bin they go.

If from some defect or other cause it can get trickier as a material defect or something effecting the drive can/will spred so making the issue how much to cut out harder and harder.

I tried to do something similar recently with a external drive. I gave up on it in the end as I could not find any tools that allowed me to easily check the drive to see were issues were. Quick scans showed no major issues, just a spot here and their. Speed tests showed similar. Full scans (bad cluster checking or full read speed tests) crashed out.

In total I have done it 4 times and only when I had a lot of spare time. Biggest issue is leaving the computer to run the tests as at the time I only had one and doing anything was not advisable as finding a lot of bad clusters could cause system instability (even if not using the drive being checked).
 

RU482

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
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the bad sectors will be marked and the drive knows to avoid it.

But a bad sector is like a crack in a glass.
They grow.. and grow... and u will lose data.

that is a terrible analogy.

I get what you are trying to say, but one bad sector does not cause more bad sectors.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
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I've done it before and can say it depends on your needs and how the bad clusters formed.

If they formed from head crashes / scratching the disk (large numbers next to each other),

If there is head to platter contact, the head is going to be ruined and you're going to have nothing but problems from there on out. At a minimum the drive will be terribly slow while otherwise showing no signs of problems, because of repeated internal errors and corrections that slow down access. Then there is the issue of particle contamination inside the sealed enclosure.

Ever had a drive that doesn't appear to have anything wrong and no smoking gun to condemn the drive, but just takes forever to handle simple requests and you know something is wrong? You can put it up to your ear and tell, the crisp "cracking/clicking" of the servo turns into a dull muted "dragging my ass" kind of sound. Most annoying thing in the world. HDDs are 40 years too slow even when they are brand new and working properly, let alone when damaged.
 
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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
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PS sector reallocations, seek error rates, and other attributes can be read easily using a SMART diagnostic tool like Crystal Disk, long before "disk errors" show up in Windows chkdsk and event log.

Additionally, sector reallocations will show up as negative spikes in a sustained linear transfer benchmark such as HD Tach, as the HDD has to do a logical to physical remap and random access seek to the spare and back.
 

Emulex

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2001
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i did this in a pinch once, i created 4 partitions - after a 72 hour scrub (1.8" drive) only one zone was 100% error free so i installed osx on that. worked for a month or so until i got an ssd replacement. 1.8" LIF sata is a pita to source.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
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i did this in a pinch once, i created 4 partitions - after a 72 hour scrub (1.8" drive) only one zone was 100% error free so i installed osx on that. worked for a month or so until i got an ssd replacement. 1.8" LIF sata is a pita to source.


1.8" HDD? D:

Doesn't even have enough I/Os and throughput to keep up with an IPod let alone a full desktop OS... so what was that a 45 minute boot time?
 

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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It's time to leave that old 1950's, 60 year old spinning platter mess behind.
Buy a fresh WD Black and you won't have any problems... The Future Is Now!
 

Emulex

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2001
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you do realize alot of ultraportables do not have 2.5" drive space? they are too thick and large. with a high areal density and ultraportable - hard drives can work - maybe only 500gb but half the weight/half the thickness and only 3.3Volt. takes about 45-50 second to boot lion cold @ 4200rpm 1.8" sata-1 (150) - with ssd its about 1/3 of that.

many windows netbooks and ultralights will continue to use them - the x18-m supports 3.3volt - been using one in a desktop because nobody wanted to buy a $8 converter (power regulator to use 5V sata to 3.3v) that's all thats different the power connector is notched so you dont feed it 5V - the sata port is the same size. so folks sell x18-m's for real cheap since nobody wants them. makes an old atom netbook seriously fly!

other than 1.8" there is not much of a standard unless you think apple macbook air new ssd format is a standard. i think it takes several manufacturers to use a form factor to be accepted. 1.8" has been around for over 6 years? maybe more. all macbook air prior to current used 1.8". iirc the 2730/2740 use 1.8" . the older drives saved alot of space by using ZIF/LIF but man that was a pita fragile. everyone now uses uSata 3.3V
 

Tsavo

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2009
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the bad sectors will be marked and the drive knows to avoid it.

But a bad sector is like a crack in a glass.
They grow.. and grow... and u will lose data.

...or an eye, or a tooth...or your wallet. Never trust a drive that's gone bad. :eek:
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,378
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that is a terrible analogy.

I get what you are trying to say, but one bad sector does not cause more bad sectors.

But the root cause of the bad sector does... esp if it is a wayward bit of trash...
 

PandaBear

Golden Member
Aug 23, 2000
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Reallocation sectors and event are the numbers you need to pay attention to. Normally a good drive has all the bad sectors mapped out during manufacturing and will not grow, and if it grow due to incident (dropping, etc) it is only one time event. It will not be noticeable to user until all the spares are used up.

If it keeps growing, time to throw away. If it stopped growing, you may be lucky and can keep using it (I have one with 416 realloc sector and 1 realloc event), 3 years now and it is still good.
 

Fallingwater

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In total I have done it 4 times and only when I had a lot of spare time. Biggest issue is leaving the computer to run the tests as at the time I only had one and doing anything was not advisable as finding a lot of bad clusters could cause system instability (even if not using the drive being checked).
Yeah, I've done it to two drives so far, and the first for some reason would always crash the computer when bad areas were found. Partitioning it the way I described fixed the issue (for now), but it did take about five or six reboots - though they weren't a problem as I was running Puppy Linux from USB on a netbook. Doing it on your main system is... inadvisable.

Throw it away and get a SSD IMO.
Yes, a SSD for old PATA systems that probably wouldn't even know what to do with the speed. Sure.

I could use a flash card in a 44-IDE adapter, but SD adapters need conversion hardware and are expensive, while CF adapters are cheap but use CF cards, which are themselves more expensive than SDs. And even then, the result would probably be a lot slower than even an old hard disk.

In relatively recent systems you can run a live persistent Linux distro (Debian or Puppy, or Ubuntu if you're feeling masochistic) on a USB thumbdrive, and systems that don't natively support USB booting can be made to do so using a Plop Bootmanager CD. However, older laptops need PCMCIA USB2 cards if you don't want a really slow system, and my experience using Plop and those has been rather horrible.

Then there is the issue of particle contamination inside the sealed enclosure.
This is usually not an issue. Any particles are flung off the platters and captured by the internal filter. A head crash will of course cause no end of problems, but this particular one isn't likely to be too troublesome. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm nitpicking.