Returning vet and former guard of 6 months at Abu Grahib speaks out on the horrors of Iraq

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81

Part1

Part2

an Arabic-speaking former soldier, Aidan Delgado, who faced abuse and attacks after filing for Conscientious Objector status. His compassionate and powerful talk includes detailed Geneva Convention violations and shockingly personal accounts of the inhumanity he witnessed and experienced, all of which, surprise surprise, is available for TV and print journalists in the Taguba Report, Red Cross reports or the stories of brave young men like him. A couple of samples are below, but the video is well worth your time.

On the classic phenomenon of dehumanizing the enemy via language. beloved patriot:

"In English, or in army usage it has the exact same meaning or connotation as 'g0ok' or 'charlie' or 'n1gger.' it's very very prevalent in the military. only on a handful of occasions did i every hear iraqis referred to as iraqis. The rest of the time it was beloved patriot this and beloved patriot that...and all of this contributed to an atmosphere that brutalizes civilians and ultimately brutalized the prisoners that we had under our thumb at Abu Ghraib."

On Abu Ghraib:

"when i arrived there i kind've had the opinion that most guys did; you know, that these are the most dangerous people in Iraq, the most deadly criminals...they deserve all this harsh treatment they're receiving. That's what i thought when i got there. but serving at Abu Ghraib i got a chance to find out differently."

As a result of the duty he'd been put on as punishment for filing for Conscientious Objector status he was privy to prisoner paperwork even guards hadn't seen:

"What i found was absolutely stunning. I found that the majority of prisoners at Abu Ghraib hadn't committed any crimes against the coalition -- they hadn't committed violent crimes. They were at Abu Ghraib for petty theft, public drunkenness, forged coalition documents, impersonating a coalition officer, petty nonviolent offenses and they were inside Abu Ghraib with real murderers, real rapists, real insurgents. In addition, a large percentage of those at Abu Ghraib hadn't committed any offense at all. The military had a policy of random sweeps..."



You get a whole different story from the real people..He is right , the misinformation americans are getting is shameful from our media here...
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
He is very brave and honorably discharged also while serving a horrible duty guarding abu gharib.

They even took his armor away and yet he finished his whole tour regardless of being unarmored and unarmed.

I guess respect for our soldiers is only in effect if they follow your agenda. figures.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
...
I guess respect for our soldiers is only in effect if they follow your agenda. figures.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Also notice how there is no response other than ignoring it and then personal attacks. It's like going up against the special-ed debate team here.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
...
I guess respect for our soldiers is only in effect if they follow your agenda. figures.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Also notice how there is no response other than ignoring it and then personal attacks. It's like going up against the special-ed debate team here.
That's not fair. They don't know what to say. It's a new story. They haven't been given their BushCo talking points yet.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
...
I guess respect for our soldiers is only in effect if they follow your agenda. figures.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Also notice how there is no response other than ignoring it and then personal attacks. It's like going up against the special-ed debate team here.
That's not fair. They don't know what to say. It's a new story. They haven't been given their BushCo talking points yet.



WTF is there to say. One guy says one thing, and thousands of others come back with a different story.

Whoopie, he's signed a sure ticket to stardom within leftwing circle(jerks).
 

Malfeas

Senior member
Apr 27, 2005
829
0
76
Originally posted by: ntdz
He's brave...and signed conscientious objector status? Nope.

You apparently have no understanging of the word brave and did not watch both video's. Before casting your "Oh so wise" judgement upon someone, perhaps you should review all the material and use a dictionary to look up words you don't understand.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
...
I guess respect for our soldiers is only in effect if they follow your agenda. figures.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Also notice how there is no response other than ignoring it and then personal attacks. It's like going up against the special-ed debate team here.
That's not fair. They don't know what to say. It's a new story. They haven't been given their BushCo talking points yet.
WTF is there to say. One guy says one thing, and thousands of others come back with a different story.

Whoopie, he's signed a sure ticket to stardom within leftwing circle(jerks).
Thousands of others ... who served at Abu Ghraib? (Since it would be irrational to expect any others who did not to be able to comment on conditions there.) Don't suppose you have a link to back that up?
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
...
I guess respect for our soldiers is only in effect if they follow your agenda. figures.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Also notice how there is no response other than ignoring it and then personal attacks. It's like going up against the special-ed debate team here.
That's not fair. They don't know what to say. It's a new story. They haven't been given their BushCo talking points yet.
WTF is there to say. One guy says one thing, and thousands of others come back with a different story.

Whoopie, he's signed a sure ticket to stardom within leftwing circle(jerks).
Thousands of others ... who served at Abu Ghraib? (Since it would be irrational to expect any others who did not to be able to comment on conditions there.) Don't suppose you have a link to back that up?

Thousands of others who have come back from Iraq.

AG specifically I don't know, but it's a likely guess that there's many. What's their story? Does it matter to you since they don't have a Bush-bash agenda?

Use arguments please because cherry picking anecdotes is really lame (although not surprising).
 

nutxo

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
6,800
469
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Part1

Part2

an Arabic-speaking former soldier, Aidan Delgado, who faced abuse and attacks after filing for Conscientious Objector status. His compassionate and powerful talk includes detailed Geneva Convention violations and shockingly personal accounts of the inhumanity he witnessed and experienced, all of which, surprise surprise, is available for TV and print journalists in the Taguba Report, Red Cross reports or the stories of brave young men like him. A couple of samples are below, but the video is well worth your time.

On the classic phenomenon of dehumanizing the enemy via language. beloved patriot:

"In English, or in army usage it has the exact same meaning or connotation as 'g0ok' or 'charlie' or 'n1gger.' it's very very prevalent in the military. only on a handful of occasions did i every hear iraqis referred to as iraqis. The rest of the time it was beloved patriot this and beloved patriot that...and all of this contributed to an atmosphere that brutalizes civilians and ultimately brutalized the prisoners that we had under our thumb at Abu Ghraib."

On Abu Ghraib:

"when i arrived there i kind've had the opinion that most guys did; you know, that these are the most dangerous people in Iraq, the most deadly criminals...they deserve all this harsh treatment they're receiving. That's what i thought when i got there. but serving at Abu Ghraib i got a chance to find out differently."

As a result of the duty he'd been put on as punishment for filing for Conscientious Objector status he was privy to prisoner paperwork even guards hadn't seen:

"What i found was absolutely stunning. I found that the majority of prisoners at Abu Ghraib hadn't committed any crimes against the coalition -- they hadn't committed violent crimes. They were at Abu Ghraib for petty theft, public drunkenness, forged coalition documents, impersonating a coalition officer, petty nonviolent offenses and they were inside Abu Ghraib with real murderers, real rapists, real insurgents. In addition, a large percentage of those at Abu Ghraib hadn't committed any offense at all. The military had a policy of random sweeps..."



You get a whole different story from the real people..He is right , the misinformation americans are getting is shameful from our media here...

I'm not going to debate the whole thing but you do realize at least 2 of the offenses that person listed as "petty" can carry the death penalty. I believe even according to the geneva convention.

 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
WTF is there to say. One guy says one thing, and thousands of others come back with a different story.

Whoopie, he's signed a sure ticket to stardom within leftwing circle(jerks).
Thousands of others ... who served at Abu Ghraib? (Since it would be irrational to expect any others who did not to be able to comment on conditions there.) Don't suppose you have a link to back that up?
Thousands of others who have come back from Iraq.

AG specifically I don't know, but it's a likely guess that there's many. What's their story? Does it matter to you since they don't have a Bush-bash agenda?

Use arguments please because cherry picking anecdotes is really lame (although not surprising).
Excuse me, but you're the one who claims "thousands of others come back with a different story." Can you support your claim or not? Even more to the point, can you produce thousands (or even hundreds) of soldiers who served at Abu Ghraib who refute Delgado's experiences? If not, then your argument is empty noise, a knee-jerk rejection of anything unflattering to Bush. You wish it's not true, but you have no objective basis for believing it (unless, of course, you can produce those thousands).

 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: cwjerome


Thousands of others who have come back from Iraq.

AG specifically I don't know, but it's a likely guess that there's many. What's their story? Does it matter to you since they don't have a Bush-bash agenda?

Use arguments please because cherry picking anecdotes is really lame (although not surprising).

And what are their stories? Besides a few gung-ho types here and there the stories are the same as this guys.
(including all my friends IRL who have been there)

But I guess fox once again is not telling you the truth, of course they just all trying to make a book...suuuuure..same excuse.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
WTF is there to say. One guy says one thing, and thousands of others come back with a different story.

Whoopie, he's signed a sure ticket to stardom within leftwing circle(jerks).
Thousands of others ... who served at Abu Ghraib? (Since it would be irrational to expect any others who did not to be able to comment on conditions there.) Don't suppose you have a link to back that up?
Thousands of others who have come back from Iraq.

AG specifically I don't know, but it's a likely guess that there's many. What's their story? Does it matter to you since they don't have a Bush-bash agenda?

Use arguments please because cherry picking anecdotes is really lame (although not surprising).
Excuse me, but you're the one who claims "thousands of others come back with a different story." Can you support your claim or not? Even more to the point, can you produce thousands (or even hundreds) of soldiers who served at Abu Ghraib who refute Delgado's experiences? If not, then your argument is empty noise, a knee-jerk rejection of anything unflattering to Bush. You wish it's not true, but you have no objective basis for believing it (unless, of course, you can produce those thousands).

Thousands have come back with different stories. Every person has a different story to tell, a different perspective, a different view. It seems you people only want to focus on the extreme negative- as usual... anything to vindicate your hate and anger. Do you disagree that thousands of troops come back with different stories to tell?

As far as AG specifically, I stated many people have served there yet I'm not hearing them all validate Delgado's experiencs. So you have one guy saying something, yet you can conclude everything he says is true? You're assuming everyone else has the same experience? Damn, I want your special powers.

I do not have to produce examples because you have yet to show THIS ONE example is objective and 100% truthful. Are you saying that we're just supposed to accept his every word as gospel? That's my main problem.

The fact is there were crimes committed at AG and there were also systemic problems. This has been dealt with... but the OP is merely an attempt to rehash things and get you kool-aiders all frothy again so you can stick your sanctimonious nose in the air and get all indignant again. Yay for you, I'm sure you people will be wallowing in this particular past for a long time to come.



 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,504
6,048
126
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
...
I guess respect for our soldiers is only in effect if they follow your agenda. figures.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Also notice how there is no response other than ignoring it and then personal attacks. It's like going up against the special-ed debate team here.
That's not fair. They don't know what to say. It's a new story. They haven't been given their BushCo talking points yet.



WTF is there to say. One guy says one thing, and thousands of others come back with a different story.

Whoopie, he's signed a sure ticket to stardom within leftwing circle(jerks).

Get in Line. When we're done with zendari you can be Pivot Man.
 

NeenerNeener

Senior member
Jun 8, 2005
414
0
0
" He's brave...and signed conscientious objector status? Nope. "

He was in Iraq for a year unarmed and without body armor and was under enemy fire. Stack your macho up to that.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
WTF is there to say. One guy says one thing, and thousands of others come back with a different story.

Whoopie, he's signed a sure ticket to stardom within leftwing circle(jerks).
Thousands of others ... who served at Abu Ghraib? (Since it would be irrational to expect any others who did not to be able to comment on conditions there.) Don't suppose you have a link to back that up?
Thousands of others who have come back from Iraq.

AG specifically I don't know, but it's a likely guess that there's many. What's their story? Does it matter to you since they don't have a Bush-bash agenda?

Use arguments please because cherry picking anecdotes is really lame (although not surprising).
Excuse me, but you're the one who claims "thousands of others come back with a different story." Can you support your claim or not? Even more to the point, can you produce thousands (or even hundreds) of soldiers who served at Abu Ghraib who refute Delgado's experiences? If not, then your argument is empty noise, a knee-jerk rejection of anything unflattering to Bush. You wish it's not true, but you have no objective basis for believing it (unless, of course, you can produce those thousands).
Thousands have come back with different stories. Every person has a different story to tell, a different perspective, a different view. It seems you people only want to focus on the extreme negative- as usual... anything to vindicate your hate and anger. Do you disagree that thousands of troops come back with different stories to tell?

As far as AG specifically, I stated many people have served there yet I'm not hearing them all validate Delgado's experiencs. So you have one guy saying something, yet you can conclude everything he says is true? You're assuming everyone else has the same experience? Damn, I want your special powers.

I do not have to produce examples because you have yet to show THIS ONE example is objective and 100% truthful. Are you saying that we're just supposed to accept his every word as gospel? That's my main problem.

The fact is there were crimes committed at AG and there were also systemic problems. This has been dealt with... but the OP is merely an attempt to rehash things and get you kool-aiders all frothy again so you can stick your sanctimonious nose in the air and get all indignant again. Yay for you, I'm sure you people will be wallowing in this particular past for a long time to come.
ROFL! That's exactly what I expected. Your claim is empty noise, another BushCo smokescreen. You have nothing to back it except your knee-jerk rejection of anything critical of BushCo. It's all just your opinion, unsupported by any objective evidence.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
WTF is there to say. One guy says one thing, and thousands of others come back with a different story.

Whoopie, he's signed a sure ticket to stardom within leftwing circle(jerks).
Thousands of others ... who served at Abu Ghraib? (Since it would be irrational to expect any others who did not to be able to comment on conditions there.) Don't suppose you have a link to back that up?
Thousands of others who have come back from Iraq.

AG specifically I don't know, but it's a likely guess that there's many. What's their story? Does it matter to you since they don't have a Bush-bash agenda?

Use arguments please because cherry picking anecdotes is really lame (although not surprising).
Excuse me, but you're the one who claims "thousands of others come back with a different story." Can you support your claim or not? Even more to the point, can you produce thousands (or even hundreds) of soldiers who served at Abu Ghraib who refute Delgado's experiences? If not, then your argument is empty noise, a knee-jerk rejection of anything unflattering to Bush. You wish it's not true, but you have no objective basis for believing it (unless, of course, you can produce those thousands).
Thousands have come back with different stories. Every person has a different story to tell, a different perspective, a different view. It seems you people only want to focus on the extreme negative- as usual... anything to vindicate your hate and anger. Do you disagree that thousands of troops come back with different stories to tell?

As far as AG specifically, I stated many people have served there yet I'm not hearing them all validate Delgado's experiencs. So you have one guy saying something, yet you can conclude everything he says is true? You're assuming everyone else has the same experience? Damn, I want your special powers.

I do not have to produce examples because you have yet to show THIS ONE example is objective and 100% truthful. Are you saying that we're just supposed to accept his every word as gospel? That's my main problem.

The fact is there were crimes committed at AG and there were also systemic problems. This has been dealt with... but the OP is merely an attempt to rehash things and get you kool-aiders all frothy again so you can stick your sanctimonious nose in the air and get all indignant again. Yay for you, I'm sure you people will be wallowing in this particular past for a long time to come.
ROFL! That's exactly what I expected. Your claim is empty noise, another BushCo smokescreen. You have nothing to back it except your knee-jerk rejection of anything critical of BushCo. It's all just your opinion, unsupported by any objective evidence.



:confused:

Why can't you answer any of my questions? Why can't you back up your own posts?

I forgot... it's all just your opinion, unsupported by any objective evidence.



 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Why do you hate the troops righties? Even if they tell a story you can not stomach in your pro-bush fox fed world?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: cwjerome
:confused:
That's about the only honest thing you've "said" all day.


Why can't you answer any of my questions? Why can't you back up your own posts?

I forgot... it's all just your opinion, unsupported by any objective evidence.
Sorry Chuckles. You made the claim. You bear the burden of proof. So far you offered exactly squat to support your claim.
 

Rogue

Banned
Jan 28, 2000
5,774
0
0
Look, I'm not here to bash the guy or refute any of the things he witnessed, however, there are some glaring errors in the various "technical" things he stated.

First off, I would like to call into question his statement about Reservists being young and uneducated. This couldn't be further from the truth as most Reservists tend to be older and have some college education, so he seems to be placing himself above those he served with over there. A minor point, but something that sticks out to me.

Second, I challenge his statement that his "home leave" was revoked because of his objector status. He stated that ALL soldiers get home leave and that is simply not true. I am willing to bet that a good majority of his fellow soldiers never went home and served their entire tour in country. He seems to make himself a victim with this statement. Now, I have no doubt that there was some harrassment from his peers after his change in status, however, in just about any circumstance he placed himself in, he would have been treated differently during war or peacetime. He's a self-proclaimed Buddhist who agreed to join the United States Army knowing he may have to go off to war at some point. That's not to say that Buddhists should summarily dismiss serving their nation in the military because of their religious beliefs, but they, like all religions, must understand that their job clashes with some things they might have to do. I don't think he performed a thorough analysis of his belief system and the realities of the possibility of war over the course of his enlistment. That's a failure on his behalf and one that he has to take responsibility for.

Third, he states his ballistic plates were confiscated from him because he didn't need them. Well, guess what, that's probably spot on. Hell, I'm willing to bet that a good number of soldiers out in the streets fighting and being shot at didn't even get them issued and he's complaining about the ones he has and would never likely use. My brother went all the way from Kuwait to Baghdad with a Vietnam era flack vest with no ballistic plates.

Mr. Delgado then states at another point that he was punished by being forced to work in the Battalion TOC (tactical operations center). I've been in the Army long enough to know that very few soldiers, especially one with a moral compass that precludes him from many of the things that occur in war, would hesitate to work in the Battalion TOC. Simply put, most soldiers view that as the easy life and here he is complaining about it. Punishment would have been sitting in a guard tower on the perimeter of the prison with no weapon, no ballistic plates and very long tours of duty with the minimum 4 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period (doesn't have to be consecutive by regulation). Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but again, he's making himself a victim.

Something else he said that stuck out to me was his remark about his sergeant holding the skull and him remarking that the victim has been shot with a 9mm in the back of the head. This guy is a mechanic, not a forensics or ballistics expert, so why would he assume or even remark that it was a 9mm round? Just seems odd, but again, maybe I'm splitting hairs here. These small details like this speak to me for some reason I can't quite explain. Sometimes it seems he has his own guilt burried away somewhere and the details are only presented to shift away from that.

Finally, most of the stories he recounts would in fact classify as war crimes under the Geneva Convention. While some might argue on his behalf that he was powerless or somehow sullied by his objector status, I disagree. His position placed him in a perfect position to contact CID (Criminal Investigation Division) and report these "crimes" he witnessed. I know being an MP myself that CID would have opened an inquiry and/or gone undercover within the unit to root out these malicious soldiers he's reporting about now. In fact, some of the things he witnessed and failed to report through proper channels or at least even attempt to report make him just as guilty of the crime. He might stand before us today and recount these horrors that he witnessed, but he never once said anywhere in the entire speech (yes, I watched both segments in their entirety and took notes) that he reported these offenses to anyone, not once. Yeah, he said you could look them up yourself in the Red Cross and the Taguba reports, but anyone of his moral fortitude should have reported these crimes and kept at least some documentation of his attempts to do so and yet he never made mention of an attempt to do so. That flies in the face of at least some of his credibility for me.

In large part, many things he said make him his own victim. I for one am glad he shared his experience over there and have no doubt that a lot of what he said was what he observed. I have heard other soldiers recall similar incidents as some of those he pointed out, so I can't call him a liar or question his belief in what he witnessed over there. I can however wonder aloud if his recollection of some of those incidents aren't tainted somewhat by his religious beliefs, his childhood education in Egypt and his treatment by his peers after making the decision to become a conscientious objector (no easy thing to do in the military I might add). His statements should be documented and catalogued for the history books along side those of every other soldier. However, to place the burden of truth and honesty in the whole of Iraq on this guy simply carries with it questions which can't be answered, so I would hope that no one here would put all their faith in his speech and presentation. To do so would only serve to wear the same shade of glasses as this one person who served over there and make the "true believer" in this guy less credible themselves. Truth is found in many sources, not just one.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: cwjerome
:confused:
That's about the only honest thing you've "said" all day.


Why can't you answer any of my questions? Why can't you back up your own posts?

I forgot... it's all just your opinion, unsupported by any objective evidence.
Sorry Chuckles. You made the claim. You bear the burden of proof. So far you offered exactly squat to support your claim.

Man, you should be in MLB, you're a pro "Dodger"

I already explained my comment. It's a shame you refuse to do the same for yours :roll: