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Return to Work - Yay or Nay? + Silicon Valley Tech Companies cut pay for Remote Workers.

S

s0me0nesmind1

Lifer
Whats the word on the general returning to work? Personally my latest job is 100% WFH and was before COVID even started (save for the occasional travel to see a client or attend a conference).

But I'm hearing from folks it's still 100% WFH. Some where they want to gradually sucker people back in with 1 or 2 days of the week being back in the office.



One thing I can say for sure though - F*** Google...and other Silicon Valley companies (Facebook, Twitter, few others). They are looking to cut their workers pay for anyone that wants to move to working from home - and depending on where they are working remotely from will cut it 15%, some as much as 25%. Yet if someone wants to WFH in NYC, they cut their pay significantly less? Sorry, what skills you can do on a computer isn't based on cost of living anymore.

I guess they want to see people suffer since they don't have to waste 10% of their life sitting in traffic and instead want to get work done?

Anyhow, hope this comes to bite them in the ass from loss of talent.

www.reuters.com

Pay cut: Google employees who work from home could lose money

Google employees based in the same office before the pandemic could see different changes in pay if they switch to working from home permanently, with long commuters hit harder, according to a company pay calculator seen by Reuters.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
That summary is a bit misleading. If you both (1) go remote and (2) move to a low cost of living location, then you get a pay cut. But if you only go remote yet live in an expensive area, then your pay is probably not cut at all. It is the moving to a low cost of living location that drives the pay cut, not the remote work.

Cutting pay is a bad move. But I just wanted to clarify that it is location based pay change -- not a work remote pay change.

On the surface it sounds awful. But if you think about it, most jobs pay differently at different locations. For example, teachers in Chicago get nearly 100k, whereas in the midwest they get paid in the mid-$30k range. Same goes with many other careers.
 
dullard said:
That summary is a bit misleading. If you both (1) go remote and (2) move to a low cost of living location, then you get a pay cut. But if you only go remote yet live in an expensive area, then your pay is probably not cut at all. It is the moving to a low cost of living location that drives the pay cut, not the remote work.

Cutting pay is a bad move. But I just wanted to clarify that it is location based pay change -- not a work remote pay change.

On the surface it sounds awful. But if you think about it, most jobs pay differently at different locations. For example, teachers in Chicago get nearly 100k, whereas in the midwest they get paid in the mid-$30k range. Same goes with many other careers.
Click to expand...

Watch the video - I think ~15 seconds in it mentions getting paycuts - "without changing their address"
 
Some jobs can be done WFH, but people that say any desk job is just fine 100% WFH and all these companies are assholes are just as much idiots as people who say all jobs should be 100% at the office.

Humans are social creatures that often benefit from three dimensional interaction, and this translates to jobs that require inter personal interactions. To just shit on any company that won't go 100% WFH is ignorant.

It is not unreasonable for companies to place a value on certain workers being in the office some days as they feel that provides additional value to them. You know, they place value in the whole human interaction thing. I'm sure that has now become 100% meaningless for all work now because zoom.

People should be fighting for a four day workweek if they want more time with family or with themselves instead of trying to shove a 100% WFH mantra on everybody.
 
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Not really surprised at all that they're doing this. Companies are greedy. They know that employees will save money, and they want a cut of that. I can see government wanting to tax those people more too, and even insurance companies wanting to raise rates because you're now using your home "for business purposes". Anytime you find a way to save money in life, everyone wants a cut of the savings.

My company seems to be hinting at doing hybrid WFH but they also want to transition to shared desks... which is completely ridiculous and goes totally against trying to stop spread of viruses etc. For my own department I think we're going to go back to full office work only though, I can't see them having a reason to keep us hybrid.
 
dullard said:
Again, those people already lived in a cheap area but were getting high salaries. This is aligning the salaries with their location -- unrelated to remote from work or drive in to work.
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Okay but that still negates your previous post where you said it had to be BOTH "(1) go remote and (2) move to a low cost of living location"

People living in suburbs and having 1 hour commutes isn't a new thing - and while the worker might save some money on costs of transportation, it's ultimately a net loss to the company because the time spent driving could be spent working and better productivity. You can also get into the costs to the business for having office space, etc.
 
Remote work encouraged through the end of the year at least. The office/labs are open and have been open all along to people who want or need to go in, though full vaccination will be required to do so as of October. There is almost no chance the flexibility will be taken away at the end of all this now that it’s this normalized. Especially given that my work is a not for profit research institution competing with high dollar tech companies for talent — with lower pay and no stock in return for a much better than typical work environment.

This time last year I was sure I wanted to move way out to semi-rural areas west or north, and I’m really glad I didn’t. Going in for hardware or lab work or in person engineering discussions once or twice a week is a nice change of pace to writing software at home.
 
I've been officially 100% WFH for over a year now, those wheels already were in motion, since I've been unofficially WFH for a few years now.
But the latest Covid-19 update is that they've indefinitely postponed a full return to the office for other people. As long as they comply with protocols, people can go back in if they want (or need) to.
 
Doesn't apply to me in any way...nor would it have when I was working, but it seems like...if you worked in an office BEFORE the pandemic sent you to WFH, now the company wants you BACK in the office...you should go back to the office. If all they're threatening is a relatively slight reduction in pay for refusing...be they're not offering to fire you.
 
BoomerD said:
Doesn't apply to me in any way...nor would it have when I was working, but it seems like...if you worked in an office BEFORE the pandemic sent you to WFH, now the company wants you BACK in the office...you should go back to the office. If all they're threatening is a relatively slight reduction in pay for refusing...be they're not offering to fire you.
Click to expand...

workers market right now - so can't say it's the right time for companies to be making demands heh.

I also wouldn't call 15% a slight reduction.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
workers market right now - so can't say it's the right time for companies to be making demands heh.

I also wouldn't call 15% a slight reduction.
Click to expand...


Try to leverage that "worker's market" too much...see the jobs get sent to India or some other low wage country. If YOU can work from home...there's no reason the job can't be done in a foreign country.

(barring any kind of government security issue, of course)
 
BoomerD said:
Try to leverage that "worker's market" too much...see the jobs get sent to India or some other low wage country. If YOU can work from home...there's no reason the job can't be done in a foreign country.

(barring any kind of government security issue, of course)
Click to expand...

lol if they felt like they could get a replacement worker from India - I promise you, they would. It's not quite that simple - and you're making it out to be that by the grace and loyalty of the corporation is the only reason they haven't 100% outsourced their entire workforce.
 
BoomerD said:
Try to leverage that "worker's market" too much...see the jobs get sent to India or some other low wage country. If YOU can work from home...there's no reason the job can't be done in a foreign country.

(barring any kind of government security issue, of course)
Click to expand...


Yeah, it's NEVER a worker's market. Companies will do whatever they want at the end of the day. They only care about maximizing their profits. There are always people lining up for jobs. This is how companies like Amazon get away with treating their employees like shit. They know if they quit more people are going to apply anyway.
 
Red Squirrel said:
Yeah, it's NEVER a worker's market. Companies will do whatever they want at the end of the day. They only care about maximizing their profits. There are always people lining up for jobs. This is how companies like Amazon get away with treating their employees like shit. They know if they quit more people are going to apply anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and sometimes the way you maximize profits is by maintaining US-based employees, because losing clients/business due to getting the cheapest offshore labor they can buy doesn't always get you a quality product...
 
nakedfrog said:
Yeah, and sometimes the way you maximize profits is by maintaining US-based employees, because losing clients/business due to getting the cheapest offshore labor they can buy doesn't always get you a quality product...
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Indians from India and IT go hand-in-hand so much to the point its a stereotype just like Apu and 7-Eleven workers. .
 
Captante said:
Remind me again .... ALL stereotypes are ____ ? 😉



based on truth
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Of course. We Chinese bash each other for being penny-pinching bitches while being penny pinching bitches ourselves. Heard it more than a few times and even uttered it myself at least once.

And even white trash and rednecks would be surprised that even high income Chinese DUMPSTER DIVE. Scavenging is in our blood.
 
Torn Mind said:
Of course. We Chinese bash each other for being penny-pinching bitches while being penny pinching bitches ourselves. Heard it more than a few times and even uttered it myself at least once.

And even white trash and rednecks would be surprised that even high income Chinese DUMPSTER DIVE. Scavenging is in our blood.
Click to expand...


As I said .... "ALL". 😉
 
BoomerD said:
Try to leverage that "worker's market" too much...see the jobs get sent to India or some other low wage country. If YOU can work from home...there's no reason the job can't be done in a foreign country.

(barring any kind of government security issue, of course)
Click to expand...

This is such a fallacy.

Nobody is going to have Carlos from India who is on a +12 time zone difference be assigned to the algorithm development team. Plus it's not just the government who has important IP.

Also on a related to note the main topic: A Google VP is planning to (or already has?) moved to New Zealand to work remotely...
 
njdevilsfan87 said:
This is such a fallacy.

Nobody is going to have Carlos from India who is on a +12 time zone difference be assigned to the algorithm development team. Plus it's not just the government who has important IP.

Also on a related to note the main topic: A Google VP is planning to (or already has?) moved to New Zealand to work remotely...
Click to expand...

Carlos? I think you're confusing the country there 😛 You must mean Muhammed... or Ram hehe.

But yeah, as someone that had to work first-hand with our India practice when I was in consulting....There's definitely SOME select-few, and a lot of times we got them to the US on Visas and eventually they get their green card. The majority though aren't THAT talented - and I wouldn't ever worry about them taking our jerbs....

I can find tons of people in India that can do what I do inside of systems.... But very few can show what I show - talk about it effectively to a non-technical crowd - and talk about it from an accountant point of view.


Basically: I can find tons of people that know and can speak technical.

I can find tons of people that know and can speak business accounting.

I can find VERY FEW that know and can speak both - and be a bridge to those that are on one side or the other.
 
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