Return of Debtor's Prisons: Collection Agencies can send you to jail

[Acanthus]

So... how do some people go bankrupt 5 times in the last 10 years and still manage to borrow money....

That doesn't happen.

 

[highland145]

There is a small difference between armed robbery and breaching a financial contract.

Here's a fun experiment for you to try. Visit a loan officer tomorrow, ask for a loan, and during the application process lay a firearm down on the table.

Report back with your results.

Looks at desk.... .38 Taurus.
Looks in desk drawer.... .357 Taurus.

O.K., now what?



Let's try an experiment. Lend me a dollar, peyton. I'll gladly pay you back $1.50 next Tuesday. Report back to OT your results.

Yes, I carefully plan my bankruptcies once every few years.

If you're assuming that all unpaid debt was borrowed with no ability or intention to repay, then what we're talking about is most closely similar to fraud as opposed to theft.

If becoming insolvent (for any reason) means you go to jail, the debts will still never be paid but there will be many expensive prisons to run. So what is the purpose of the jail time?

Had a customer tell me that she didn't pay because my $$ was "a financial blessing from God." Great. I'll let my family know.

The ones I'm referring to are the ones that never intend on repaying. Is it fraud? Of course. Is it theft by deception? Absolutely.

 

[jpeyton]

The ones I'm referring to are the ones that never intend on repaying.

It's on the lender if they didn't do their homework. We have credit reporting agencies for a reason. If you're stupid enough to loan money without doing your due diligence, you won't be in the lending business for very long.

 

[highland145]

It's on the lender if they didn't do their homework. We have credit reporting agencies for a reason. If you're stupid enough to loan money without doing your due diligence, you won't be in the lending business for very long.

LOLOLOL

looks at avatar

LOLOLOL

25 years, 2/2012

LOLOLOL

Hey, man. Let me hold a dollar.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

It's not theft. If you don't want to lose money as a lender, don't lend money.

Otherwise lending money is like any other financial risk we take. We hope the gains outweigh the losses. If lending money wasn't profitable, banks wouldn't exist.

ok, replace 'theft' with 'breach of contract' in my original post. you get your semantic victory, my point remains unchanged.

 

[actuarial]

ok, replace 'theft' with 'breach of contract' in my original post. you get your semantic victory, my point remains unchanged.

So you really want to say this:

my preferred punishment for [breach of contract] is reparation + penalty. since these people are not abiding by that punishment, jail seems like the next logical step.

You think people should go to jail for breach of contract? You're going to need to build a lot of jails.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

So you really want to say this:



You think people should go to jail for breach of contract? You're going to need to build a lot of jails.

no, as is clearly stated in my post, people should be responsible for repayment and penalty for breaching contract.

when the repayment and penalty is not met, THEN jail.

would you prefer just a sincere apology?

 

[3chordcharlie]

no, as is clearly stated in my post, people should be responsible for repayment and penalty for breaching contract.

when the repayment and penalty is not met, THEN jail.

would you prefer just a sincere apology?

Who wins if we go with your plan?

 

[MotionMan]

Who wins if we go with your plan?

Perhaps, if the end of the road is jail/prison, people will not, in the first place, so easily incur debts they cannot possibly repay.

If that happens, then everyone wins and no one goes behind bars.

MotionMan

 

[cliftonite]

Perhaps, if the end of the road is jail/prison, people will not, in the first place, so easily incur debts they cannot possibly repay.

If that happens, then everyone wins and no one goes behind bars.

MotionMan

What about corporations that borrow? What should the consequences be for them?

 

[MotionMan]

What about corporations that borrow? What should the consequences be for them?

That is a totally different subject. Any suggestions?

MotionMan

 

[3chordcharlie]

Perhaps, if the end of the road is jail/prison, people will not, in the first place, so easily incur debts they cannot possibly repay.

If that happens, then everyone wins and no one goes behind bars.

MotionMan

How do you intend to separate those who took on debt they could not afford / did not plan to repay?

Or should losing your job now be punishable by prison?

I'm not arguing that debt shouldn't be paid, I just fail to see how sending the insolvent to prison would help.

 

[3chordcharlie]

That is a totally different subject. Any suggestions?

MotionMan

Whoever signed for the debt, every person who is higher on the org chart (or who makes more money), and every owner can go to debtor's prison

 

[MotionMan]

How do you intend to separate those who took on debt they could not afford / did not plan to repay?

Check the financials and history. Pretty easy to figure out actually.

Or should losing your job now be punishable by prison?

No. See above.

I'm not arguing that debt shouldn't be paid, I just fail to see how sending the insolvent to prison would help.

SENDING them to prison does not solve it. The THREAT of being sent to prison should help.

Sending someone to prison for a crime does not prevent crime. The threat of going to prison is the deterrent (at least in theory).

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Whoever signed for the debt, every person who is higher on the org chart (or who makes more money), and every owner can go to debtor's prison

Thank you for adding the

MotionMan

 

[KlokWyze]

Too bad they are above the law.

:thumbsup:

Only another bigger financial collapse would MAYBE lead to genuine financial reform and that would still only be partially effective. As long as there are humans, there will be greed and corruption.

Currently though, we need greater, more effective consumer protective laws, not more tools for the rich, corporations, etc. to use against people who can't pay their bills.

 

[zinfamous]

Try again?

4-24-2012

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blo...ing-1-cup-002830215--abc-news-topstories.html

Florida Man Charged With Felony for Allegedly Stealing $1 Cup of Soda From McDonald's


A Florida man was arrested and held on $6,500 bond after police in Collier County said he left a McDonald's without paying for a cup of soda valued at $1.

Mark Abaire, 52, had apparently asked staff at the Naples restaurant for a courtesy cup of water, but instead he allegedly filled the cup with soda from the soda fountain.

Abaire could face five years in prison if he is convicted of the felony.

Put on trial, then sent to prison with an actual sentence, with meals and all the "acutrements" of today's prisons is the same as being tossed into a dank room without a trial, and without any knowledge of when you will ever be released?


try again.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Check the financials and history. Pretty easy to figure out actually.

easy to suspect, harder to prove

No. See above.







SENDING them to prison does not solve it. The THREAT of being sent to prison should help.



Sending someone to prison for a crime does not prevent crime. The threat of going to prison is the deterrent (at least in theory).



MotionMan

Sounds expensive. But I think the correct action is fraud charges, or similar, if you can prove deception and/or intent, rather than prison for unpaid debt.

 

[MotionMan]

easy to suspect, harder to prove

Not really. I've done it many times.

Sounds expensive. But I think the correct action is fraud charges, or similar, if you can prove deception and/or intent, rather than prison for unpaid debt.

Prison is suppose to be the deterrent, not the endgame.

MotionMan

 

[Imp]

That doesn't happen.

I was thinking of something like this happening:

http://www.thestar.com/news/investi...-from-discount-stores-as-organic-kosher-halal

Obviously, not 5 times in 10 years...

 

[BladeVenom]

Lets apply this to politicians. Keep them locked up until the budget is balanced.