Return of Debtor's Prisons: Collection Agencies can send you to jail

[SandEagle]

What does that have to do with the courts locking them up for contempt/failure to pay fines?

i dont pay med bills cuz i dont understand them even when itemized. we should be told what the charges will be before any work is done...similar to taking your car in for service

 

[highland145]

i dont pay med bills cuz i dont understand them even when itemized. we should be told what the charges will be before any work is done...similar to taking your car in for service

But you use medical services?

NPR story said 30% of the cost of medical bills is the billing process. No uniformity.

 

[santz]

it doesn't seem like theft it is theft. The problem is the bankruptcy laws. People know full and well they don't have to pay it back and if the creditor decides to take you to court you simply file bankruptcy. It isn't even a big deal these days. I know people who filed just over a year ago and are already getting new cars with loans. It is a joke. There are people out there that do this for a living. They have multiple bankruptcies in a row. These people are simply thieves.

If bankruptcies were not so easy to file and were not of such limited hardship people would use credit much differently.

this this this this tthhiiss

 

[Beev]

Right, except that OP claimed that "It's a crime to be poor now." That's not the "crime" - taking money and not paying it back is the "crime".

MotionMan

No, the crime (stated by the article) is failure to appear in court.

Edit: I should have read the thread. This was already clarified.

 

[OutHouse]

No, the crime (stated by the article) is failure to appear in court.

Edit: I should have read the thread. This was already clarified.

1. cant pay bill.
2. get sent to collections
3. still cant pay bill
4. goes to court
5. shows up at court to say cant pay bill
6. fines and court cost added to bill
7. still cant pay bill goes home
8. state troopers show up to take you to jail for not paying court cost and fines.
9. you now sit in debt prison for being poor.
10. still cant pay bills or any bills because you are in jail.

 

[highland145]

1. cant pay bill.
2. get sent to collections
3. still cant pay bill
4. goes to court
5. shows up at court to say cant pay bill
6. fines and court cost added to bill
7. still cant pay bill goes home
8. state troopers show up to take you to jail for not paying court cost and fines.
9. you now sit in debt prison for being poor.
10. still cant pay bills or any bills because you are in jail.

Looks like the emotional response intended by the story has worked. However, facts/statistics are missing. Imagine that.

Edit: WTH does this have to do with being a debtor?

to a mentally ill juvenile jailed by a judge over a previous conviction for stealing school supplies.

Nothing.

 

[Thump553]

1. cant pay bill.
2. get sent to collections
3. still cant pay bill
4. goes to court
5. shows up at court to say cant pay bill
6. fines and court cost added to bill
7. still cant pay bill goes home
8. state troopers show up to take you to jail for not paying court cost and fines.
9. you now sit in debt prison for being poor.
10. still cant pay bills or any bills because you are in jail.

True up to stage 5, then diverts into paranoialand. No "fines" in a judgment for a civil debt-you will be charged actual court costs and small (set by statute) amount for fees-assuming the contract doesn't call for and your state allows actual attorney fees.

You never get sent to jail for failure to pay the judgment-it's POSSIBLE to be jailed for contempt of court by failing to respond to court orders (generally to appear in court and disclose your assets). The law has been this way since at least the mid-1970s from my personal knowledge, and probably for decades earlier.

BTW out of the hundreds of such cases I have observed I have only once seen a defendant sent to any actual jail time for contempt (and that was a very special circumstance involving getting caught in a bald lie to the judge).

Child support matters are a different situation with a substantially higher chance of actual jail time.

The thread title is very misleading, as is much of the quoted article.

 

[PokerGuy]

"Under the law, debtors aren't arrested for nonpayment, but rather for failing to respond to court hearings, pay legal fines, or otherwise showing "contempt of court" in connection with a creditor lawsuit."

But clearly clearly contempt of court is the same thing as debtor's prison.

This. Nobody is going to jail because they owe a debt, they are going to jail because they've been summoned to appear in court and they didn't do so. You can be summoned to appear in court for a variety of reasons, and not showing up in court can result in a contempt charge. This has nothing to do with "debtors prison". If you show up in court and say "I don't have money to pay this bill", you are not going to jail.

 

[child of wonder]

Seems like every level of government needs to be thrown in prison then since every goddamn political entity from the feds down to public schools owe money out their asses with no hope of paying it all back.

 

[highland145]

Seems like every level of government needs to be thrown in prison then since every goddamn political entity from the feds down to public schools owe money out their asses with no hope of paying it all back.

Contemptible, I say. Lock 'em up.

 

[foghorn67]

I dunno - Seems like theft to take someone else's money under the guise of a promise to repay and refuse to pay it back.

MotionMan

Except when the entire economy is rocked, and you are competing with 150 other people for the same job.

 

[highland145]

Except when the entire economy is rocked, and you are competing with 150 other people for the same job.

He did say refuse, not unable. I've never filed a summons against anyone that was unable to pay/destitute. There have been some that I've sued that have been in that situation but they ignored me and refused to make any contact. My crystal ball's broken.

 

[GrumpyMan]

So lets arrest Congress and the Senate, because they can't pay their bills either.

 

[SP33Demon]

Jesus people, it's a loophole. And many states are introducing legislation to get it fixed so collection agencies can't pull this sneaky sht. Read the article, it's probably 1% of people who are pursued by collection agencies, and even then it's because they didn't show for court.

 

[highland145]

Could just dio this.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/04/20/man-allegedly-slices-ear-off-over-unpaid-debt/

A Los Angeles man faces charges of mayhem and assault with a deadly weapon after police say he sliced another man’s ear off over an unpaid debt.

 

[jpeyton]

Seems like theft to take someone else's money under the guise of a promise to repay and refuse to pay it back.

It's not theft. The borrower/lender agreement is a contract; failure to repay is a breach of contract, but it's not theft.

 

[highland145]

It's not theft. The borrower/lender agreement is a contract; failure to repay is a breach of contract, but it's not theft.

Some asshole robs me with a gun or some asshole robs me with a pen, I'm still out my $$. The only difference is that the guy with the pen has very little to fear of recourse in S.C. Maybe I should move the business to GA or IL.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

my preferred punishment for theft is reparation + penalty. since these people are not abiding by that punishment, jail seems like the next logical step.

 

[zinfamous]

Debtors prison was an ENTIRELY different ballgame from simply going to jail.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/04/13/090413fa_fact_lepore

unlike thieves, murderers, rapists, general criminals, etc, debtor's had no actual sentence when sent to prison. No trial, no term, and could, as was the case with many individuals, waste away in dungeon-like conditions for their entire lives, owing to often petty debts.

That will not happen again.

 

[jpeyton]

Some asshole robs me with a gun or some asshole robs me with a pen, I'm still out my $$.

There is a small difference between armed robbery and breaching a financial contract.

Here's a fun experiment for you to try. Visit a loan officer tomorrow, ask for a loan, and during the application process lay a firearm down on the table.

Report back with your results.

 

[jpeyton]

my preferred punishment for theft is reparation + penalty. since these people are not abiding by that punishment, jail seems like the next logical step.

It's not theft. If you don't want to lose money as a lender, don't lend money.

Otherwise lending money is like any other financial risk we take. We hope the gains outweigh the losses. If lending money wasn't profitable, banks wouldn't exist.

 

[dmcowen674]

Debtors prison was an ENTIRELY different ballgame from simply going to jail.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/04/13/090413fa_fact_lepore

unlike thieves, murderers, rapists, general criminals, etc, debtor's had no actual sentence when sent to prison. No trial, no term, and could, as was the case with many individuals, waste away in dungeon-like conditions for their entire lives, owing to often petty debts.

That will not happen again.

Try again?

4-24-2012

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blo...ing-1-cup-002830215--abc-news-topstories.html

Florida Man Charged With Felony for Allegedly Stealing $1 Cup of Soda From McDonald's


A Florida man was arrested and held on $6,500 bond after police in Collier County said he left a McDonald's without paying for a cup of soda valued at $1.

Mark Abaire, 52, had apparently asked staff at the Naples restaurant for a courtesy cup of water, but instead he allegedly filled the cup with soda from the soda fountain.

Abaire could face five years in prison if he is convicted of the felony.

 

[Doppel]

No, I am just saying that taking someone's money and not paying it back seems like theft.

MotionMan

If I grab your wallet and run off that's theft. If you lend me money and I become wholly unable to pay it back, it's not. Seriously, you don't understand how not paying a debt is not theft? Really?

Debtor's prison is just gov-backed loan sharking, there's a reason it's banned in countries that people in this thread would be likely to want to live in and not in countries they wouldn't.

And, yes, the thread title is misleading even if the article pretends that there are debtor's prisons in the US.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Pretty damn poor article, slim on statistics.
Like what? A financial blessing from God?

This. Failure by the OP.

QFT

Yes, I carefully plan my bankruptcies once every few years.

If you're assuming that all unpaid debt was borrowed with no ability or intention to repay, then what we're talking about is most closely similar to fraud as opposed to theft.

If becoming insolvent (for any reason) means you go to jail, the debts will still never be paid but there will be many expensive prisons to run. So what is the purpose of the jail time?

 

[actuarial]

This. Nobody is going to jail because they owe a debt, they are going to jail because they've been summoned to appear in court and they didn't do so. You can be summoned to appear in court for a variety of reasons, and not showing up in court can result in a contempt charge. This has nothing to do with "debtors prison". If you show up in court and say "I don't have money to pay this bill", you are not going to jail.

It sounds like you can be imprisoned for failing to pay court costs, which I assume could still apply even if you show up to say "I don't have money to pay this bill".