RETRO Gaming PC - best AGP motherboard?

[Deanodarlo]

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I've decided that it's time to build a retro gaming PC based on AGP!

I have a HIS x800 XT PE and an Audigy2 ZS staring me in the face and asking to be used again, so I decided to build a computer for playing older games in Windows XP 32bit (now that Windows 7 RC is on my main PC).

How many of you have tried older games on newer cards? I have a 9800GTX+, but never tried installing older games from 2001-2007 say. Do the newer cards have problems with older games making it worth my while to build a retro PC gaming rig? I'd try myself, but they are all stored around my parents house at the moment.

What's the best AGP board? Any suggestions?

I was thinking of using an Asrock 4coredual-VSTA as it has AGP, supports core2's and I can use ddr2 (of which I already have a spare 1GB stick). I'm guessing this is the most powerful AGP board ever released (and probably one of the last). Anyone with experience of this board?

A lot of questions I know. Anyone else got or intending to build a retro gaming PC?

 

[BushLin]

I upgraded from a system similar to what you envisage earlier this year, there is absolutely nothing a modern system can't do compared to the last line of AGP machines with respect to games. Don't waste your money, sell the old parts on ebay and dual boot your new system.

 

[Deanodarlo]

I could sell them, but they are not worth much these days, especially the x800 without SM3.

I take it you have tried older games on your machine? I thought they might be happier with the older drivers and the traditional pipelines of the x800's, which were very mature and compatible due to the success of the 9700 pro.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: Deanodarlo
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I've decided that it's time to build a retro gaming PC based on AGP!

I have a HIS x800 XT PE and an Audigy2 ZS staring me in the face and asking to be used again, so I decided to build a computer for playing older games in Windows XP 32bit (now that Windows 7 RC is on my main PC).

How many of you have tried older games on newer cards? I have a 9800GTX+, but never tried installing older games from 2001-2007 say. Do the newer cards have problems with older games making it worth my while to build a retro PC gaming rig? I'd try myself, but they are all stored around my parents house at the moment.

What's the best AGP board? Any suggestions?

I was thinking of using an Asrock 4coredual-VSTA as it has AGP, supports core2's and I can use ddr2 (of which I already have a spare 1GB stick). I'm guessing this is the most powerful AGP board ever released (and probably one of the last). Anyone with experience of this board?

A lot of questions I know. Anyone else got or intending to build a retro gaming PC?

Using a Core 2 Duo and DDR2 isn't very RETRO. I still have a 3.2GHz 4 HT with an X850XT AGP and I don't play any games on it anymore. Older games will run much better on newer hardware even though that hardware wasn't available back then.

 

[WW2Planes1]

The biggest problem would probably be OS compatibility, not hardware compatibility. AGP vs. PCIe shouldn't make one iota of difference so long as whatever OS you're using has the driver support. Windows XP doesn't really support most older DOS era games without a struggle (I'm guessing, I've never really tried to install one on my system), but I think that's more the fault of the OS rather than the hardware.

The only reason I can think of that older games may not work would be the jump to 64-bit. At some point, they're going to stop making that backwards compatible with 32-bit, and when that happens, then you'll have to set aside a PC for "retro gaming"

In short, do you need an AGP system to play games from 2001? I don't think so, No.
What will you need? Probably a 32-bit system (or a more accurately, a 64-bit system that's backwards compatible)

That said, I'm still running an AGP system as my primary PC, and I intend to keep running it even after I upgrade to a new system. I'm also planning to resurrect my old Athlon XP 1800 (also AGP) shortly as a secondary machine (as soon as I can find a quieter cooler for it), if for no other reason than to just have an extra PC around just in case.

 

[Deanodarlo]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem
Using a Core 2 Duo and DDR2 isn't very RETRO.

True, but why buy an old motherboard and CPU when I can have a core2 duo or quad as my secondary machine which runs cooler, uses speedstep, has much more potential as being useful in the future and has no difference in terms of games or software compatibility in comparision to older CPU's. Plus I can get this motherboard for cheaper or the same price as some of the older deluxe socket 462/939/754/478/775 combinations. I have a x800 XT PE, Audigy2 ZS and two 160GB IDE drives sitting around doing nothing.

I've done some more research on this anyway.

I appreciate your input guys, but as WW2Planes said WinXP 32bit was the most used operating system ever and I don't see a problem having a secondary system for running it since it covers what, 8-9 years of gaming? I'll probably dual boot it with Linux. I grew up with WinXP with traditional AGP pipeline cards, so this is Retro to me.

I'm still not convinced all older games run fine on newer hardware since their drivers surely weren't optimised or checked thoroughly for backwards compatibility, but I'd have to test myself.

Thanks for your replys.

 

[Massive Overkill]

VMware. Supports DX9c. Aquamark runs surprisingly good. Only need one computer.

 

[Deanodarlo]

Has VMware any compatibility issues? It sounds too good to be true.

This thread has jumped the shark now anyway - I started out wanting to know about AGP motherboards for an older build and playing older games and we've gone to a discussion about not requiring another PC - just stick to modern hardware. It was one of my questions however I admit.

I may sell up instead now so thanks to everyone for giving me advice. I'll look into VMware and check out some older games on the 9800GTX+.

 

[BushLin]

Originally posted by: DeanodarloI take it you have tried older games on your machine?

I've ran Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2, Grand Prix Manager 2, Sensible World of Soccer and some old emulators. All of these are around 10 years old and run as they did then. The same as my old Athlon XP(-M) system with an AGP version of a 7900GT.

Pretty much all current gaming focused hardware supports Windows XP, if your games can run under that (or via DosBox) then AGP is of no consequence.
If you need Windows 98 to run the games then it's just a case of whether drivers are available. Presumably any games of that ilk you want to play, you already have and can test before going down what I see as a pointless route.

As others have said, you can use an old PC for backup use or purposes which don't need performance. Just bear in mind that using it for a 24/7 server might cost you in the long run, if like me, the system was zapping nearly 300w at idle :s

I took off the water cooling, turned off the extreme overclocks; sold the raid controller, expensive 1GB 500Mhz DDR modules and graphics card then set it up for my Dad to use (basic web browsing, email and photo editing).

 

[Deanodarlo]

Thanks for the futher input Bushlin. Power is becoming more and more of an issue. As resources run out, we'll all end up running laptops!

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

The best AGP motherboards were the MSI Neo2 Plat and DFI LanParty UT (...damn I can't remember what it was called) nFxxxGB.

I have a REAL retro system right here. Including a CRT (ViewSonic G90f black)! This computer is a socket 754, 6800 AGP system. I think I have the original Athlon64 3400+ CPU somewhere, but that's been replaced with a 754 Venice 3200+ because it was cheap. The DFI LanParty UT died a couple years ago, so I had to find an AGP board (not many choices!!) It has 2x512MB Mushkin Blue DDR400 C2, and a PNY 6800 vanilla in the replacement Biostar K8T800 (giant turd). I will be either giving it to my little brother (who will likely destroy it) or I will sell it... so if you want REAL retro, gimme a PM and pre-order today! (You don't think I would admit to having such a dinosaur machine to brag, do you?)

I used to play WoW on it, and a little Raven Shield and GTA: San Andreas. I tried MAME, but it sucks without a controller.

 

[AstroGuardian]

How did you manage to install the Ato/nVidia drivers on the VMWare VM?

 

[Massive Overkill]

It uses a standard VMware display driver.

 

[SonnyDaze]

Originally posted by: ChaiBabbaChai
The best AGP motherboards were the MSI Neo2 Plat and DFI LanParty UT (...damn I can't remember what it was called) nFxxxGB.

QFMFT. I remember owning both of those in my 939 days. :heart: You thinking of the NF4 Ultra D? That was a sweet board.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

Originally posted by: SonnyDaze

Originally posted by: ChaiBabbaChai
The best AGP motherboards were the MSI Neo2 Plat and DFI LanParty UT (...damn I can't remember what it was called) nFxxxGB.

QFMFT. I remember owning both of those in my 939 days. :heart: You thinking of the NF4 Ultra D? That was a sweet board.

I remember now! nF3 250GB. So it was the gen before the NF4 Ultra D - even more retro than that... :thumbsup:

 

[tcsenter]

This is not an issue unless there are at least two DX generations between game and GPU. e.g. playing DX9 games on DX11 GPU, DX8 games on DX10 GPU, DX7 games on DX9 GPU.

But playing DX9 games on DX10 GPU or DX8 games on DX9 GPU shouldn't be an issue at all.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

I also love retro gaming. To be honest, I also love old and quirky hardware, so the admittedly excellent solutions of VMWare or modded retro games for XP or Win7 (available on Steam, GoG) do appeal to me, but I like running an old box.

The question could be framed as, what is the fastest mobo at single-threaded game performance, and that supports Win98SE (for true MSDOS). That would certainly be an AMD board from before the Core2Duo launch.

But I loved the old Pentium III, so I got a hold of an old Abit VH6T mobo that supports the speedy 1.4GHz Tualatin PIIIs, and has good BIOS overclocking. I found some 166MHz SDRAM, stuck in my 6800GT (BIOS modded to Ultra), and dual boot to it with a KVM. (I also have an Abit VP6 running dual PIIIs @ 1GHz, which is surprisingly good at running games like Oblivion, and is smooth as butter running XP). The Abit VH6T as set up tears through any games of the era admirably, and sports an excellent Aureal Vortex sound card, a real gem.

As OP's Deanodarlo knows from another thread, I also have the Asrock 4CoreDual-VSTA, but to get sound working under Win98SE you have to use an add-on card and not the onboard HD audio, so I use it for XP.MCE.SP3 and Win7 only. [While on the topic of sound, curiously the onboard sound of the VSTA board can use PCI bus 02 or 80. The 02 address works under XP only; you have to use 80 under anything later.] My very first gaming love, Aztech for the Apple II, runs under emulation on my VSTA, too.

When I am feeling particularly nostalgic, I fire up my trusty HP150 Touchscreen and play some old DOS text games, or the single handful of graphics games made for it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Hlafordlaes
The question could be framed as, what is the fastest mobo at single-threaded game performance, and that supports Win98SE (for true MSDOS). That would certainly be an AMD board from before the Core2Duo launch.

...sports an excellent Aureal Vortex sound card, a real gem.

I agree about the Aureal card, I have one, and they were awesome for true 3D sound.

But I would think that a C2D mobo would give the best single-threaded performance, not an AMD board.

You can get C2D mobos that still support Win98se, I have a few. 865G/865PE chipset, AGP, but with a C2D socket. They only support 800FSB C2Ds though, although the 865PE, not being saddled with the integrated graphics, can overclock to 300Mhz FSB, up from 200Mhz.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

@VirtualLarry,

You are right about that. I have an Asrock 775i65G (uATX) sitting around new in the box; was going to use it to practice the same hard mod that would work on my 4Core, but laaaziiinessss got me. Then I was going to make it into a vintage gaming and HTPC, since my spare Palit 7600GT AGP does HDCP.

But something about using a dual core for a totally single-core setup irks me.

BTW, if anyone wants to know how to get a newer NVidia graphics card (post 6-series) to work under Win98SE, PM me for the .inf file that can be used with driver v82.69, or just google around.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

Originally posted by: Hlafordlaes
I also love retro gaming. To be honest, I also love old and quirky hardware, so the admittedly excellent solutions of VMWare or modded retro games for XP or Win7 (available on Steam, GoG) do appeal to me, but I like running an old box.

The question could be framed as, what is the fastest mobo at single-threaded game performance, and that supports Win98SE (for true MSDOS). That would certainly be an AMD board from before the Core2Duo launch.

But I loved the old Pentium III, so I got a hold of an old Abit VH6T mobo that supports the speedy 1.4GHz Tualatin PIIIs, and has good BIOS overclocking. I found some 166MHz SDRAM, stuck in my 6800GT (BIOS modded to Ultra), and dual boot to it with a KVM. (I also have an Abit VP6 running dual PIIIs @ 1GHz, which is surprisingly good at running games like Oblivion, and is smooth as butter running XP). The Abit VH6T as set up tears through any games of the era admirably, and sports an excellent Aureal Vortex sound card, a real gem.

As OP's Deanodarlo knows from another thread, I also have the Asrock 4CoreDual-VSTA, but to get sound working under Win98SE you have to use an add-on card and not the onboard HD audio, so I use it for XP.MCE.SP3 and Win7 only. [While on the topic of sound, curiously the onboard sound of the VSTA board can use PCI bus 02 or 80. The 02 address works under XP only; you have to use 80 under anything later.] My very first gaming love, Aztech for the Apple II, runs under emulation on my VSTA, too.

When I am feeling particularly nostalgic, I fire up my trusty HP150 Touchscreen and play some old DOS text games, or the single handful of graphics games made for it.

That's serious business.

For MY sound, I have an M-Audio Delta 66 PCI/breakout box from 2001.