redlinez33
Senior member
EXACTLY my thoughts lol
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[Retired] The LCD Thread
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Anyone thinking of getting a Dell 2007FP beware. I got a revision 05 with an S-IPS panel (good news) but it also dithers (temporal dithering FRC thing). I can see this in certain shades whenever my eyes dart from one area of the screen to another. Took a picture at high shutter speed to confirm it and a clear dither pattern is seen). So the panel might be 8-bit but the driving circuits aren't (probably saving on the cost of DAC's). Made a utility to held others see dither (my wife can't see it unaided) is there anywhere I can post it for people to try out?
The Keeper
Senior member
I have ordered L227WT-PF, it should be available on 30th according to the reseller. Specs: http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/l227wt.jhtml
I know I'm taking a bit of a risk with this model, as it hasn't gotten any proper reviews yet, but I guess I'm putting my faith on rather good L226WT models.
I know I'm taking a bit of a risk with this model, as it hasn't gotten any proper reviews yet, but I guess I'm putting my faith on rather good L226WT models.
redlinez33
Senior member
ohh, cant wait to hear opinions on this one!
davebarboza
Junior Member
I've been waiting to get a new monitor for a long time, reading this thread & the older one and other reviews for months. I have a Hyundai L90D+ and a Dell 1905FP. I've had them for 4 or 5 years. The L90 is fine but I've never been able to get the Dell to match colors.
I do mostly web browsing & IT work from home with some amateur digital photography processing. I'd like to get better at processing. Its also my home theater for this room and I watch quite a few movies or have TV playing in the background. I'd like a larger monitor so I can zoom out on photos and still see detail. Or have enough working room for Lightroom's side toolbars. I'd like better color without losing black -- the L90 does black quite well IMO. My roommate's last LCD TV (mitsubishi) was terrible at rendering dark scenes. I don't need a ton of inputs, just VGA & DVI. A stand that adjusts vertically with tilt & swivel. I was hoping for a glossy screen but that doesn't seem to be common in 24".
Only concern is lag but I doubt that problem will come up often as I game very very infrequently. The L90 was considered a very fast monitor when it came out. I don't know what its actual specs are but Hyundai's website lists it at 8ms. How bad would gaming be on the HP?
In any case, what compelled me to post was the HP LP2465. Its $620 @ Newegg before a $75 rebate. Pay with Paypal and they'll credit you 20% back at the end of January. That makes the end price $417 + $22 shipping. I think that's a phenomenal deal if its a good monitor. I'll probably be purchasing it today but I look forward to any input you (xtknight) might have. Think its the monitor for me? It can't be any worse than what I currently have (no matter how well my eyes have become accustomed to them) so at the very least I'm getting a big upgrade in real estate.
I do mostly web browsing & IT work from home with some amateur digital photography processing. I'd like to get better at processing. Its also my home theater for this room and I watch quite a few movies or have TV playing in the background. I'd like a larger monitor so I can zoom out on photos and still see detail. Or have enough working room for Lightroom's side toolbars. I'd like better color without losing black -- the L90 does black quite well IMO. My roommate's last LCD TV (mitsubishi) was terrible at rendering dark scenes. I don't need a ton of inputs, just VGA & DVI. A stand that adjusts vertically with tilt & swivel. I was hoping for a glossy screen but that doesn't seem to be common in 24".
Only concern is lag but I doubt that problem will come up often as I game very very infrequently. The L90 was considered a very fast monitor when it came out. I don't know what its actual specs are but Hyundai's website lists it at 8ms. How bad would gaming be on the HP?
In any case, what compelled me to post was the HP LP2465. Its $620 @ Newegg before a $75 rebate. Pay with Paypal and they'll credit you 20% back at the end of January. That makes the end price $417 + $22 shipping. I think that's a phenomenal deal if its a good monitor. I'll probably be purchasing it today but I look forward to any input you (xtknight) might have. Think its the monitor for me? It can't be any worse than what I currently have (no matter how well my eyes have become accustomed to them) so at the very least I'm getting a big upgrade in real estate.
davebarboza
Junior Member
Yea just noticed that Newegg ended it on 11/26, but its still good on other retailers till 12/10, including HP. Its $650 @ HP. so that makes it $445 plus whatever shipping. HP's website crapped out before I could get a quote. Looks like I'm waiting some more.
RobberBaron
Member
I second that.
Denithor
Diamond Member
Seconded.
I clung to my Viewsonic P95Fb until late last year when I got a Samsung 204b free (safety program at work yielded $400 BB GC--woohoo!). Overall I've been pleased with this LCD, I don't notice any ghosting in games (most important factor to me) but the 16x12 does get on the eyes sometimes for general browsing (tiny text).
It sounds to me like you should be steering away from TN displays if you desire these qualities in a monitor (i.e. dark detail, distinguishable tones).
One glossy option is the Gateway FHD2400, but it has a TN panel. Its color performance can be seen here: http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2213492,00.asp
It certainly isn't exceptional in rendering dark tones; you get that normal color shift you get with many LCDs, and consequently a lack of "true" gray detail. Without good calibration, dark details will appear shiny, glossy, and inaccurate (if they appear at all), instead of gray. It really is an ugly phenomenon. The dithering/FRC of TNs exacerbate this problem since they have to combine several inaccurate tones to come up with another inaccurate one. With the 8-bit panels you have at least only one level of inaccuracy.
On the HP LP2465? It should be fine for most anyone. You say you don't game much, so unless input lag is a significant problem even in general use, I don't believe gaming will be an issue here. I doubt input lag will be an issue, either. All 24" VAs have a good amount of it but you really don't hear that much about it other than the normal complaints about LCD technology from hardcore gamers. Or, suddenly they are noticing slow movement after seeing readings of 48 ms input lag on the forums, DigitalVersus, etc.. 😛
I definitely think so. Good luck. And it is certainly not worse than what you have; as a matter of fact, it is a good amount better in every category (potentially excluding overall image lag).
The Keeper
Senior member
Since it is a possibility that the L207/L227 series won't be here on time for my new rig. I've been brainstorming to find a good alternative.
Is the L204WT still a good and reliable choice, even for gaming? I see it has been dropped from the first post in this thread due to higher latency. But in older posts it has been directly competing against W2007, 206BW and L206WTQ.
W2007/W2207 has only 12 month warranty and the stand may take too much space on my desk which is kinda lacking space in depth, 206BW/226BW is subjected to panel lottery and L206WTQ/L226WTQ may still have RTC problems.
What panel do L204WT's come with? No panel lottery I hope? My current LCD is old 17" Samsung 172X and it has 12ms latency (by official specs). So L204WT' probably will be better for gaming than my 172X is.
I guess I could also pull my desk away from wall a bit to make a W2007 or W2207 fit better, do you recommend them over L204WT?
Thanks for the LCD Thread. I just received my HP 2065 and hoped to find an indication of whether it has the S-IPS Panel or the AMVA on the box, as mentioned in your thread. I tried to decipher all the coding on the box, but nothing seemed indicative. Can you give me any advice on what to look for?
I was deciding between the Samsung 226BW and the LG L226WTY-BF. But this thread recommends the Viewsonic VX2255WMB. At the store that I'll be buying, http://infonec.com/site/main.p...ule=catalog&catID=1152 it has other models from Viewsonic that seem to have even better numbers than the VX2255WMB (like VX2240W or VA2226w). Are those other models also considered in this thread?
Oh and how about the KDS K-2237MDWB? The price is really tempting, but I guess you get what you pay for?
Also, I have a ATI AIW RADEON 32MB which supports (2048x1536 is max) so it should be okay? I don't game, just web design, light photo editing and mostly watching movies and HD clips. What's the difference between using a card such as mine to a high end one for 2D stuff? It's the same right?
Thanks.
Oh and how about the KDS K-2237MDWB? The price is really tempting, but I guess you get what you pay for?
Also, I have a ATI AIW RADEON 32MB which supports (2048x1536 is max) so it should be okay? I don't game, just web design, light photo editing and mostly watching movies and HD clips. What's the difference between using a card such as mine to a high end one for 2D stuff? It's the same right?
Thanks.
I am pretty sure that GSM* product codes are S-IPS, and AMM* are AMVA. See here for more details: http://www.hardforum.com/showt...62417&highlight=lp2065
Well yes, the L204WT is still a fine alternative. The 206BW and L206WTQ I'm unsure about: the 206BW has a panel lottery and there are no pro reviews of the L206WTQ. The w2007 I am most confident about, but it is glossy which many people dislike.
I don't believe the L204WTs have a panel lottery. Yes, the L204WT will probably be better than the 172X, which I have seen myself.
Honestly, I believe the HP w2007/w2207 are better choices when it comes to overall screen quality.
Interesting. My mother has a 2007FP at work although I'm not sure what rev it is. It is a LM201U05 (S-IPS) but you mean Dell Rev A05, right? I never noticed it in brief use myself.
Maybe this is the same as the gray flickering/shimmering on LP2065 models.
If you e-mail it to me I'll post it on lcdresource.com, if you want.
I also have a tool here (see how this works for you): http://lcdresource.com/tools/frctest.exe
I am not sure about the VX2240W as I have not seen reviews of it on the usual sites I trust (e.g. BeHardware, prad.de, X-Bit, THG, ExtremeTech, flatpanels.dk, ...). Same w/ VA2226W.
It uses a TN panel and it's a 21.6" monitor in reality, but I have no idea at all how it performs. Assume the worst.
I say, stick with the known 22" models. Even slight model # differences can result in glaring problems. (e.g. great Samsung 940BF vs. horrible 960BF wrt response time).
For 2D stuff, a generic 2D card and 2D accelerated driver will be as good as a 3D card+driver.
Check if your card has a DVI port on it, though. DVI performance can differ from VGA performance but chances are it's fine.
The Keeper
Senior member
Thanks for your input. What really puts me off from the W2x07 series, is their warranty. At least Samsung and LG have 3-year on-site warranty, but HP has only 1-year and no on-site. Otherwise the HP's would certainly be my 1st choice.
thecoffeeguy
Senior member
Hello! Read through a lot of this question, but was hoping to get some help for a monitor that will suit me.
I will just put down some info to help narrow down what I am looking for.
I am a gamer, but not hardcore.
Games currently played:
Team Fortress 2
Call of Duty 4
Company of Heroes
However, I do a lot of internet type work, a lot of reading, browsing, email, coding (.NET, powershell mostly). I do a lot of studying at home.
Now, I have a 19" Viewsonic at home and a Dell 20" at work (this one http://accessories.us.dell.com...en&cs=04&sku=320-4687)
The one thing I can tell, without a doubt is that when using Mozilla Firefox, there is a HUGE difference in quality. At home, I can't even use Firefox because the way it displays the pages is crappy. Fuzzy, fonts look screwy almost and a PITA to read. Thing is, both computers are very similar in setup (hardware, software)
At work though, with my Dell, the monitor is fantastic. I can use Firefox with the pages being displayed perfectly and easy on the eyes.
I guess my first question would be, whats the main difference that would cause that?
So for me, its striking a balance between the two, but if I had to choose, it would definitely be to get something that would display the internet over gaming, but I do like my games. Striking a balance is what im looking for.
Also, any opinions on that matter above? I like it a lot, but $460 (before Employee discount), is pretty hefty.
Any other alternatives to consider?
Thanks,
TCG
EDIT: What size monitor do you need to start considering a SLI setup with?
Also, I would like to go with a dual monitor setup. So something that will work well for what im looking for (Lots of online reading, some programming for .NET, powershell, vbs scripting) as well as the gaming factor as well. What type of things should i be looking for?
Also, what seperates the dell "UltraSharp" models from others? THanks.
I will just put down some info to help narrow down what I am looking for.
I am a gamer, but not hardcore.
Games currently played:
Team Fortress 2
Call of Duty 4
Company of Heroes
However, I do a lot of internet type work, a lot of reading, browsing, email, coding (.NET, powershell mostly). I do a lot of studying at home.
Now, I have a 19" Viewsonic at home and a Dell 20" at work (this one http://accessories.us.dell.com...en&cs=04&sku=320-4687)
The one thing I can tell, without a doubt is that when using Mozilla Firefox, there is a HUGE difference in quality. At home, I can't even use Firefox because the way it displays the pages is crappy. Fuzzy, fonts look screwy almost and a PITA to read. Thing is, both computers are very similar in setup (hardware, software)
At work though, with my Dell, the monitor is fantastic. I can use Firefox with the pages being displayed perfectly and easy on the eyes.
I guess my first question would be, whats the main difference that would cause that?
So for me, its striking a balance between the two, but if I had to choose, it would definitely be to get something that would display the internet over gaming, but I do like my games. Striking a balance is what im looking for.
Also, any opinions on that matter above? I like it a lot, but $460 (before Employee discount), is pretty hefty.
Any other alternatives to consider?
Thanks,
TCG
EDIT: What size monitor do you need to start considering a SLI setup with?
Also, I would like to go with a dual monitor setup. So something that will work well for what im looking for (Lots of online reading, some programming for .NET, powershell, vbs scripting) as well as the gaming factor as well. What type of things should i be looking for?
Also, what seperates the dell "UltraSharp" models from others? THanks.
I had posted a while back about having a hard time deciding on a monitor that didn't suffer from input lag and had the quality I was looking for in the 24" range. It seemed that most at 24" were close, but had a drawback that halted me.
After some consideration, I decided that if I was already ready to invest $700, that I was going to get exactly what I wanted...that being a high quality monitor with reponse times (input lag included) that would handle gaming well. I decided to spring for the 3007WFP-HC, and while even getting to the point of considering something that big and expensive was hard, I find myself becoming happier with the decision by the hour. This is what I'll be staring at when on my computer for years to come. I'll spend the money.
Beyond that, I thought I would just throw out some info to anyone in the market for this great monitor. Currently the Dell 3007WFP-HC has it at 15% off and free shipping (US). This marked about $250 in savings and made the purchase in the realm of reality for me.
After some consideration, I decided that if I was already ready to invest $700, that I was going to get exactly what I wanted...that being a high quality monitor with reponse times (input lag included) that would handle gaming well. I decided to spring for the 3007WFP-HC, and while even getting to the point of considering something that big and expensive was hard, I find myself becoming happier with the decision by the hour. This is what I'll be staring at when on my computer for years to come. I'll spend the money.
Beyond that, I thought I would just throw out some info to anyone in the market for this great monitor. Currently the Dell 3007WFP-HC has it at 15% off and free shipping (US). This marked about $250 in savings and made the purchase in the realm of reality for me.
Hey. Well, sounds like you're fairly highly demanding (but that's a good thing).
What 19" ViewSonic do you have?
I have a 19" ViewSonic VP930b (VA-based) and I dislike it because its default color settings are pretty bad. But, after calibration I have to say it looks very good. I recommend it because it now uses a different panel, to my knowledge, and in all honestly the default settings aren't *that* bad. 😱 😛
My ViewSonic tends to have very harsh white, making it uncomfortable on the eyes at least at brighter settings where it's any good for multimedia.
Do you have a S-IPS or VA in your Dell at Work? (Look at service menu, or if this is hidden, use one of the several utilities online to distinguish VA from IPS.)
IPS has a quite noticeable purple tint at really wide angles. And, VA will have some grayscale shift (dark tones will invert a little). IPS should have no visible shifting to your eyes and very little brightness drop at wide angles.
S-IPS monitors in my experience tend to have a very neutral, easy-on-the-eyes white.
What's making your Dell more comfortable is most likely what I mentioned above (more neutral/natural white), and the Dell's smaller dot pitch which enables fonts to be rendered at a higher resolution, so they look smoother and more contiguous, not blocky, choppy, or chunky.
You shouldn't have to sacrifice between Internet use and gaming too much.
In my experience, the LG L226WT works great for Internet use and is pretty good for gaming too. That's no longer being sold, but there is the L226WTQ which is basically equivalent, with response time compensation, making it better for games.
The problem with the Dell UltraSharp 2007FP and 2007WFP (widescreen) is that you have the panel lottery. That monitor that was so comfortable on your eyes may no longer be if you end up with a VA panel. So, make sure you know what panel you have at work before buying another Dell now. If it's a VA, then go right ahead; you know what to expect and apparently you like it a lot, which isn't that surprising.
Only resolution matters here. For most games, probably 23-24" (1920x1200) or 22" if you get that new 1920x1200 Lenovo.
For Crysis, 15" LCD? I don't know. 😉
In my opinion, dual monitor is silly compared to one big monitor. I say this having dual monitors myself. I hardly ever use my secondary 19". Even if it was 20.1" matching my primary monitor I don't think I would use it either.
Go for a single monitor Dell 2407WFP-HC setup instead of buying two $400+ LCDs. Unless you meant combining one ~$400 LCD with one you already had, in which case it's up to you.
I'm not sure what you mean by "what type of things should I be looking for" but I just assume you wanted some advice or direction. In my opinion, don't do dual monitors; they don't increase productivity unless you really do something like stock trading. I'm a huge multitasker myself (I always have tons of windows open/maxing my RAM) but I can not have myself focusing on two monitors; it is too stressful on my eyes and neck, and I can't concentrate that way. It's silly and excessive unless you know you have a need for it. If you really feel a need to check your e-mail while playing WoW, well, I guess..
The only real reason I still have my 19" here is because there's no where else it would look better, and I use it to evaluate LCD panel tech (IPS vs VA) more than anything else.
The UltraSharp models used to be Dell's only DVI monitors, if I remember properly. They seem to use better quality inverters than the value Dell E series too. And, they may have better default color tuning. Dell's E series are really bargain-basement but their UltraSharp series are a [good] attempt to match industry quality.
P.S. I love coffee too, sometimes too much. 😉
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