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Retina MBP or Samsung Series 7 Gamer ?

G

g1981c

Member
my pops works in Autodesk Autocad Architecture and his laptop went kaput. so without giving it a second thought i just went to best buy and after about half an hour walked out with Asus G75VW because it looked cool and the specs were right ...

big mistake !

the Asus is buggy as hell, it needs to go back ... and i need to get something else.

i narrowed it down to Retina Macbook Pro or Samsung Series 7 Gamer

Retina MBP Pros:

*Retina IPS display
*Symmetrically placed dual subwoofers
*Next generation design
*Apple support

Retina MBP Cons:

*1 out of 10 Repairability score by iFixit with battery glued over the Touchpad
*Ram not upgradeable at 8 gigs
*Storage not upgradeable ( at least for now ) at 256 gigs
*slightly more expensive

Samsung Gamer Pros:

*16 gigs ram out of the box
*dual HDD bays
*17" display
*200W power supply and two large coolers
*four USB ports
*slightly cheaper

Samsung Gamer Cons:

*twice as heavy and three times as thick
*finding parts for it out of warranty likely won't be anywhere close to as easy as for Macbook
*in overall design and build quality nothing can compare to apple

ALSO WOULD YOU STILL CONSIDER GETTING REGULAR 15" MBP NOW THAT RETINA VERSION IS AVAILABLE ??? IF SO WHY ???

i will also say that i have owned many products from both apple and samsung and while ALL of my apple products were great to ridiculously great my samsung products ranged from poor to very good. in a direct competition i think samsung has no chance - but this isn't direct competition - these are two very different products. my pops needs a desktop replacement notebook which the Samsung is, and Retina MBP is not. unfortunately apple isn't into desktop replacement notebooks.

the only reason i want him to have a notebook at all and not a desktop is because he doesn't know how to maintain his computer so every once in a while he needs to take it to somebody to install some programs or get rid of viruses etc - and that kind of thing is easier with a laptop, even a very big one, than a desktop. in other words the laptop will be leaving the desk only about half a dozen times a year.

please help me make a choice !

George.

ps: i can go over to B&H and check these laptops out - i believe they have both of them. only problem is i would have to take the train or pay about $20 for parking.

ps2: my pops likes big widescreen matte displays ( aside from working in CAD he also likes to watch videos )

ps3: needless to say pops doesn't game because he is almost retirement age, but he lives with some grandkids aged 6 and 15 or so who probably do. i don't know if he would let them use his laptop or not.
 
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The fact that you need it to run some specific software for your dad makes me wonder why Apple is even considered at all. It looks like Autodesk has Windows only software, at least for the one you mentioned. Also, if he's in the habit of needing PC support from the family or something... do these people know how to work with and fix anything in OSX as well? It sounds like you do, but you may not be the only one.
 
those MBP are junk for autodesk. Their video cards and specs are lacking for Autodesk, CAD, and 3D engineering/graphics modelling.

Of course, obviously, any standard laptop is pretty much garbage for such things. You'd have to look at higher-end mobile workstations like Dell's precision series or HP's XW-series, or desktop workstations, but they are pricey.
 
Beavermatic said:
those MBP are junk for autodesk. Their video cards and specs are lacking for Autodesk, CAD, and 3D engineering/graphics modelling.

Of course, obviously, any standard laptop is pretty much garbage for such things. You'd have to look at higher-end mobile workstations like Dell's precision series or HP's XW-series, or desktop workstations, but they are pricey.
Click to expand...

You generally get your money's worth though. They are fairly sturdy machines, tend to have better warranties and support, and can get nicer displays (particularly on the HPs).
 
Problem is, a MacBook Pro is about as "Pro" as a standard or mid-range PC media laptop.

that "Pro" misleads people into thinking its a highend mobile workstation like the Dell Precision M6600's and such. And it's not even close, not even same Ballpark. Macbook Pro's are just consumer mediocre machines at best.
 
in what sense is a Macbook Pro not "pro" enough ? are you referring to the fact that it doesn't have a Quadro graphics card ? that battery isn't removable without screwdriver ? something else ?

gorcorps said:
The fact that you need it to run some specific software for your dad makes me wonder why Apple is even considered at all.
Click to expand...

because i have used both my MacBook Pro and my iMac in windows mode and both were very solid there in terms of drivers. only problem i had is missing some keys like "print screen" key on a mac keyboard.

i like the quality of a Macbook Pro. i like the keyboard - its's not mushy or flexy. i like that the screen hinge feels solid like a tank. i do NOT like that the notebook's edge is sharp and trying to cut my hand when i type 🙂
 
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I'd worry about the thermals in the macbook for any extended work sessions. I would get a dell workstation with quadro card.
 
well i have returned the Asus to Best Buy and you guys have given me some food for thought. i haven't really looked at professional level notebooks ... although i once had a thinkpad, but it was given to me by my college - i never chose to get one. it was ridiculously expensive.
 
does he only use autoCAD or does he also use Revit?

the most important thing to keep in mind with autodesk products is the certified drivers and cards. For 2d work you wont have a problem with a consumer card, but there are severe performance penalties when you do 3d work without a quadro card, plus a myriad of other issues that you may or may not experience. It's not because the Quadros are any better than the consumer cards, they're just overpriced gerforce cards with better drivers (the high end quadros do have ECC enabled though, but their FP64 peformance is still crippled if I remember correctly), but it all comes down to driver support (and big fat margins for nvidia).

if he only runs autoCad then he doesn't need the biggest baddest mobile workstation around.
http://outlet.lenovo.com/SEUILibrar...workflow:item.detail?GroupID=445&Code=42824EU this one is pretty much perfect for his needs, there's no ODD in this model but since you'd like two drive bays that just means you don't have to remove the damn thing when you throw in a harddrive instead.

edit: I'm not sure if this model comes with raid enabled since there's no ODD in the ultrabay, but you might be lucky. there's also a slot for either a WWAN module or mSata SSD.
 
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i placed an order:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2260339

when i looked at the insides of 17" alienware i saw quite a bit of similarity to the 17" dell precision ... not surprisingly since alienware is owned by dell.

obviously alienware doesn't have the professional features of dell precision but it was significantly cheaper - at least by half a grand.

my father wants to learn Revit but he doesn't work in it. i previously had Revit running on geforce so i decided that quadro wasn't worth it for educational purposes.

i decided to go with alienware over retina macbook because it had:

* stronger graphics - 2GB 660M vs 1GB 650M
* expandable storage ( versus fixed 256 GB )
* expandable ram ( up to 32 GB versus fixed 8 or 16 on Retina MBP )
* better cooling ( enough to sink 240W versus 85W on MBP )
* larger screen ( 17" vs 15" )
* windows specific keyboard ( versus mac keyboard )
* genuine windows pre-installed

i wish there was a matte display option ... but there wasn't ...

alienware doesn't exactly have business styling LOL but actually i was pleasantly surprised at how much more restrained it is in styling than it could have been. for the most part its a matte grey box. if you don't look at the signature speakers, the alien logo and the rainbow keyboard you can almost see a dell precision workstation in its outline.

i have to say that i used to work in Autocad myself ... and it was on Dell Precision workstations ... albeit not mobile ones 🙂
 
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For programs like AutoCAD, your going to want:

Fast, large amount of RAM

Decent Harddrive size, though most of our engineers will store their data to a portable 500gb external harddrive. A machine with two internal harddrives configured to mirror for data backup is the best possible configuration for anyone running AutoCAD should their primary drive have issues and they dont loose their project work.

A higher-than-standard CPU, or workstation class CPU (the ultra-core Xeons or socket 2011's if possible for desktop, or the highest end CPU you can find on a laptop that meets the other criteria)

Workstation grade graphics card (such as Quadro), but a good Geforce chip will do as well.

Largest, best resolution, screen possible.

64-bit OS that lets AutoCAD peform RAM read/writes better, and allows you to use more than 4GB of RAM.




The mobile workstations, like the HP's and Dell's and such, were designed for engineers and design teams. You would not buy one, for say, everyday work or gaming, or just simple web browsing and regular media. Would defeat the purpose.

A gaming laptop like alienware, of course, would be sufficient, and would work, but its not exactly tailored for workstation applications, and some of its hardware/software included may be out of scope or not as optimized for those tasks, rather heavily optimized for consumer media (gaming. music, porn, etc)

A standard laptop PC just wont cut it though. We have people running just off the shelf PC's or standard Dell, HP, IBM laptops and desktops and it will hit RAM limits and max out and randomly crash, doesn't run as fluid as it should, etc.

A Macbook Pro falls more into the category of a standard laptop PC... just not going to hande it as well as the higher end options out there. CPU and Graphics are it's weakest area. I really hate to crap on one brand, but Mac has been consistently known to be just consumer-grade systems. They like to make their systems sound alot more powerful and useful than they really are. Take a peek at the latest, 12-core Xeon MacPro desktop for example... pretty nice CPU for number crunching in code and development, but garbage for graphics, drives, etc. It's also been driving MAc fans up the wall... the design is older than who know what, the mobo chipsets are budget foxconn rebrands, the PSU's are less that subpar, etc. Apple has already announced it may be pulling those models anyway due to abysmal sales.

The MacBook pro is just the mobile version of that same problem. Looks nice, seems nice, but compared to a great many other PC's for the same price, is junk. The company I work for tried sending out Mac's as to executives and certain people last year as replacements for their PC's. They were all excited about it at first... and a month or so later, we started randomly getting them back in. What they were able to do on their PC's was far more than what they found out what they could do on a Mac, especially for design, engineering, and buisness productivity... even simple office work. Once they came to realize that "uh, this is pretty useless for work", that fad ended, and everyone that received except for a few are back to a PC.
 
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g1981c said:
i placed an order:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2260339

when i looked at the insides of 17" alienware i saw quite a bit of similarity to the 17" dell precision ... not surprisingly since alienware is owned by dell.

obviously alienware doesn't have the professional features of dell precision but it was significantly cheaper - at least by half a grand.

my father wants to learn Revit but he doesn't work in it. i previously had Revit running on geforce so i decided that quadro wasn't worth it for educational purposes.

i decided to go with alienware over retina macbook because it had:

* stronger graphics - 2GB 660M vs 1GB 650M
* expandable storage ( versus fixed 256 GB )
* expandable ram ( up to 32 GB versus fixed 8 or 16 on Retina MBP )
* better cooling ( enough to sink 240W versus 85W on MBP )
* larger screen ( 17" vs 15" )
* windows specific keyboard ( versus mac keyboard )
* genuine windows pre-installed

i wish there was a matte display option ... but there wasn't ...

alienware doesn't exactly have business styling LOL but actually i was pleasantly surprised at how much more restrained it is in styling than it could have been. for the most part its a matte grey box. if you don't look at the signature speakers, the alien logo and the rainbow keyboard you can almost see a dell precision workstation in its outline.

i have to say that i used to work in Autocad myself ... and it was on Dell Precision workstations ... albeit not mobile ones 🙂
Click to expand...

alienware and precision workstations are nothing alike, huge difference in quality, with alienware you pay an absurd premium for the brand and purdy colours, with a precision or any workstation class laptop you pay a premium for quality.

does your dad do any sort of 3d modelling in acad?
 
I have no idea whether the Mac would work for your Dad at all from a software perspective...but I am absolutely in love with the retina display on my system. LOVE, LOVE.
 
Hmmmm, I personally think my 30" HP ZR30w S-IPS 2560x1600 monitor looks better than my Mac's retina display. They are both AMAZING. unfortunately for Apple, both are what you call "Retina" displays by their standards and specifications.

Retina is just a marketing term, dont forget that. I do agree with PricklyPete, the highend resolutions are nice, but it also heavily depends on ppi (which makes the bigger difference) and screen manufacture quality. And the higher you go doesn't neccesarily your going to notice any difference from your viewing angle or viewing distance. Screensize also plays a bigger issue here. Too high on a smaller screen, and you could make it look worse, icons and text are hard to read as their size is greatly reduced, web pages and applications screen space become messed up from everythin being condensed, and you may not even notice a visual difference in quality. Also remember your going to need a higher end GPU for those higher res's for games, video and graphics.

And on a laptop screen, anything above a 2400x1400 res just isnt noticeable... takes a far larger (27" screen) to make a visual difference. But, these are all what Apple would call "Retina" displays, even if Apple swears it's only their tech that could be retina.

Sadly, like a great many things, "Retina" is just a marketing gimmick.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5998/macbook-pro-retina-display-analysis/

and

http://gizmodo.com/5926295/your-tv-is-a-retina-display

make for some good reading material about this.
 
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so basically i was up the whole night and ordered Alienware in the morning, then collapsed and fell asleep. then around 3PM i woke up in panic because i realized that if alienware is put on the bed it will have its air intakes blocked while a retina macbook will not because it has an intake on the back ( between the exhausts ). i immediately came to the conclusion ( without even waking up ) that macbook was superior and called Dell and cancelled the order. and then i woke up.

apologies to everybody.

in any case i am looking at Dell Precision. i think they had new models come out since yesterday LOL because now i see what appears to be Kepler core Quadros in the lineup ! also it's more expensive than Alienware but cheaper than properly configured Retina MBP ( with 512 gig storage ).

PS: sgrinavi and beavermatic i am keeping in mind what you said regarding CAD.
 
Your defientely get the best AutoCAD machine on the market going with the Precision. Plus it does about everything else you'll ever need it to do, and more.
 
Lenovo still makes a decent Thinkpad as long as you go with X-series and higher. Just business & office and general purpose laptops, not really engineering or gaming. So I wouldn't really focus at them for AutoCAD.

Some argue that Lenovo makes the best all-around PC laptop. I personally think they were better when they were IBM, but lenovo still uses the same team that designed them for IBM, just to me, not much has changed with their overall design and aesthetics. I guess their persepective is "if it aint broke, dont fix it", though I wish they would ditch this traditional 'japanese lunchbox' inspired design and try something different for once in 20 years. But they are still very much highly rated, and very durable. I still LOL that the new thinkpad i am sitting here with right now doesn't look much at all different than my dads 486 50mhz thinkpad back in 1993 with windows 3.1 and dos 6.22, llolol. Ahhh, and to think, I use to play DOOM on that beast 😛

I'm typing this from a new Lenovo L-series laptop that my job has provided me. Not as "well-rounded" and feature-filled as the X-series, but still, not bad.
 
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ok then here is what i have configured:

https://www.box.com/s/31c8053e8d8cfee5790e

so basically:

Dell Precision M4700

$2,600 before taxes

* I7-3720QM
* 2GB Quadro K2000M
* 15.6" RGBLED IPS Matte 1080P screen
* 256GB min-card SSD

what do you think ?

the plan of course is to add ram and a storage drive later.
 
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