Retail sales surge

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
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Retail sales surge

Oil sinks back below $60

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. retail sales surged 2.3 percent in January, nearly triple the expected increase and the largest gain since May 2004, as post-holiday spending on cars, clothing, gasoline and furniture galloped ahead, a government report showed on Tuesday.

Excluding demand for cars and parts, retail sales were up 2.2 percent last month - the largest monthly gain in more than six years, the U.S. Commerce Department said.

Both overall sales and sales outside the auto sector were far stronger than Wall Street had expected. Economists had forecast a 0.8 percent overall increase and a 0.7 percent gain excluding cars.

The higher-than-expected sales growth in January was offset slightly by a downward revision to December's data. Sales were up just 0.4 percent in December, rather than the initially reported 0.7 percent gain. The rise in sales outside the auto sector was unrevised at 0.2 percent in December.

Sales of motor vehicles and parts surged 2.9 percent in January, building on December's 1.2 percent gain, while sales at gasoline stations rocketed 5.5 percent higher. When both cars and gasoline are excluded, retail sales were up 1.8 percent in January, the largest increase since March 2004.

Demand was firm across nearly all major retail categories in January. Furniture sales rose 3.7 percent, electronic and appliance sales climbed 2.0 percent and building material and garden equipment sales surged 3.4 percent.

Sales of clothing advanced 4.2 percent, the largest gain since October 2002.

Business was also brisk at restaurants and bars, where sales were up 3.2 percent, though grocery store sales grew just 0.2 percent, the report showed.

Non-store retailers - including electronic shopping and mail-order - were the only major category with declining sales, down 2.6 percent, the biggest drop since September 2001.

Nice to see the economy moving. Dow back up over 11k atm although Bernanke may burst the bubble with his comments forthcoming, with this news coupled with labor and inflation info I see little chance for just 1 more fed hike.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
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0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Credit cards.

Probably both . . . party is going to end pretty soon. I wonder who will clean up?

Liberals have been saying that for years, and we now have a nice economy with unemployment belew 5%.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Credit cards.

Probably both . . . party is going to end pretty soon. I wonder who will clean up?

Liberals have been saying that for years, and we now have a nice economy with unemployment belew 5%.

The only difference is the reasons why an economy can crash are all there this time..now we are just waiting for it.
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
2,201
0
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Perhaps, I know I spent all of my gift cards last month.

A gift card is a sale when it is purchased... not when it's used.

Actually, I was thinking the opposite that companies only count the sale when the gift card is used, maybe wrong about that. I know I was listening to some commentators a couple weeks back on CNBC discussing when companies would be reporting some of the gift card revenue, but not sure.
 

xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
76
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Credit cards.

Probably both . . . party is going to end pretty soon. I wonder who will clean up?

Liberals have been saying that for years, and we now have a nice economy with unemployment belew 5%.

The only difference is the reasons why an economy can crash are all there this time..now we are just waiting for it.

What reasons... give examples please.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Perhaps, I know I spent all of my gift cards last month.

A gift card is a sale when it is purchased... not when it's used.

Actually, I was thinking the opposite that companies only count the sale when the gift card is used, maybe wrong about that. I know I was listening to some commentators a couple weeks back on CNBC discussing when companies would be reporting some of the gift card revenue, but not sure.

You are correct. Gift cards, for whatever reason, are counted when used, not when sold. Makes no sense to me, but that's how it's done. :confused:
 

catnap1972

Platinum Member
Aug 10, 2000
2,607
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Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Perhaps, I know I spent all of my gift cards last month.

A gift card is a sale when it is purchased... not when it's used.

Actually, I was thinking the opposite that companies only count the sale when the gift card is used, maybe wrong about that. I know I was listening to some commentators a couple weeks back on CNBC discussing when companies would be reporting some of the gift card revenue, but not sure.

You are correct. Gift cards, for whatever reason, are counted when used, not when sold. Makes no sense to me, but that's how it's done. :confused:

My guess is that retailers get enough sales during the holidays that there's no need to add those in as well...they "save" them for an added "boost" to the numbers in the following months (when sales are usually flat).

The news about oil prices I'd call mixed at best. It sounds good on the surface, but this time around, most places aren't passing along the savings so consumers aren't going to see much benefit (we're still in the low-mid 2.30s while we should be near if not below 2.00 given the numbers)
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Perhaps, I know I spent all of my gift cards last month.

A gift card is a sale when it is purchased... not when it's used.

Actually, I was thinking the opposite that companies only count the sale when the gift card is used, maybe wrong about that. I know I was listening to some commentators a couple weeks back on CNBC discussing when companies would be reporting some of the gift card revenue, but not sure.

Nah... You're right. I misread the article I was looking at. It's not counted as a "sale" until the card is used.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Perhaps, I know I spent all of my gift cards last month.

A gift card is a sale when it is purchased... not when it's used.

Actually, I was thinking the opposite that companies only count the sale when the gift card is used, maybe wrong about that. I know I was listening to some commentators a couple weeks back on CNBC discussing when companies would be reporting some of the gift card revenue, but not sure.

You are correct. Gift cards, for whatever reason, are counted when used, not when sold. Makes no sense to me, but that's how it's done. :confused:

They do that because thats how accounting works. Selling the gift cards is like getting prepaid for a service by a business, and the generally accepted accounting principles say that you count the revenue when the service/good is completed/sold. You learn about all that stuff in basic Accounting :)
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: judasmachine
How come deficits matter when it comes to my credit card, and not the fed?

The Fed makes it's payments on time, just as you should...

And what does that have to do with the OP? More diversions from the good news?
 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
0
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Liberals have been saying that for years, and we now have a nice economy with unemployment belew 5%.

The link below references someone else's opinion on the state of our economy. I looked for the statistics he quoted (from the BLS), but was not able to find it. Here are few selected quotes. My comments are in italics. The date of the article is 2/11/06.

-------------------------
By Paul Craig Roberts

Last week the Bureau of Labor Statistics re-benchmarked the payroll jobs data back to 2000. Thanks to Charles McMillion of MBG Information Services, I have the adjusted data from January 2001 through January 2006. If you are worried about terrorists, you don?t know what worry is.

Job growth over the last five years is the weakest on record. The US economy came up more than 7 million jobs short of keeping up with population growth.

I've read that elsewhere too. This is one of the reasons I think that official unemployment statitics is bogus. It is virtually impossible to have slower increase in jobs than population growth and the unemployemt rate to decrease. So obviously a lot of the unemployed are not counted.

Over the past five years the US economy experienced a net job loss in goods producing activities. The entire job growth was in service-providing activities?primarily credit intermediation, health care and social assistance, waiters, waitresses and bartenders, and state and local government.

US manufacturing lost 2.9 million jobs, almost 17% of the manufacturing work force. The wipeout is across the board. Not a single manufacturing payroll classification created a single new job.

The declines in some manufacturing sectors have more in common with a country undergoing saturation bombing during war than with a super-economy that is "the envy of the world." Communications equipment lost 43% of its workforce. Semiconductors and electronic components lost 37% of its workforce. The workforce in computers and electronic products declined 30%. Electrical equipment and appliances lost 25% of its employees. The workforce in motor vehicles and parts declined 12%. Furniture and related products lost 17% of its jobs. Apparel manufacturers lost almost half of the work force. Employment in textile mills declined 43%. Paper and paper products lost one-fifth of its jobs. The work force in plastics and rubber products declined by 15%. Even manufacturers of beverages and tobacco products experienced a 7% shrinkage in jobs.

The knowledge jobs that were supposed to take the place of lost manufacturing jobs in the globalized "new economy" never appeared. The information sector lost 17% of its jobs, with the telecommunications work force declining by 25%. Even wholesale and retail trade lost jobs. Despite massive new accounting burdens imposed by Sarbanes-Oxley, accounting and bookkeeping employment shrank by 4%. Computer systems design and related lost 9% of its jobs. Today there are 209,000 fewer managerial and supervisory jobs than 5 years ago.

I think the author is being more pessimistic here than necessary. The period he describes includes the .com bust with the associated huge losses in information sector jobs. I need the year-by-year numbers to decide how important the 2000-2002 period was.

In five years the US economy only created 70,000 jobs in architecture and engineering, many of which are clerical. Little wonder engineering enrollments are shrinking. There are no jobs for graduates. The talk about engineering shortages is absolute ignorance. There are several hundred thousand American engineers who are unemployed and have been for years.

No sane economist can possibly maintain that a deplorable record of merely 1,054,000 net new private sector jobs over five years is an indication of a healthy economy. The total number of private sector jobs created over the five year period is 500,000 jobs less than one year?s legal and illegal immigration! (In a December 2005 Center for Immigration Studies report based on the Census Bureau?s March 2005 Current Population Survey, Steven Camelot writes that there were 7.9 million new immigrants between January 2000 and March 2005.)

-------------------------

If this is true (I could not confirm the statistics quoted above), our economy is FAR from being healthy, and true unemployment is certainly not below 5%. I personally have seen 25% increase in my salary over the last few years (I work in R&D) and I can't really complain.

Link to full article

If you click on the link to MBG Information Services, there are some more scary statistics for 2005 there:

Three-fourths of industries suffered worsening balances with deficits in advanced tech goods again larger than all intellectual property surpluses. The auto sector set a new record -$139 billion with auto parts' deficits worsening by -20%.

Q4 Productivity & salaries down: Non-farm productivity fell at an annual rate of -0.6% in Q4 and compensation fell -0.4%. Most imporant, the 4 yrs of this recovery saw the weakest gain in non-farm output and hours worked ever recorded during similar periods. Indeed, total hours worked in '05-Q4 is -1.9% LESS than in '00-Q3 and is, by far, the worst such decline on record.

Compensation fell in 2005: Price-adjusted wages and salaries per hour for all US workers fell another -0.8% in 2005 to levels of mid-2001. Even with soaring costs for health care and other employer-paid benefits, total real compensation per hour fell by -0.3% in 2005, the first decline for compensation in 9 years.

An end to the illusion? The BEA estimates GDP grew at only 1.1% rate in Q4. Even with consumer spending almost stagnant, households again outspent their current disposable incomes producing the first annual dis-savings rate since 1933. Weakening consumer, business and government spending, together with an inventory buildup, a worsening trade deficit and continuing household dis-savings, points to severe economic stresses ahead.

Wages buy less than 4 yrs ago: The purchasing power of weekly wages rebounded by 0.1% in Dec. due to a drop in prices. But weekly wages were down in 2005 for the 3rd straight year and are now below levels of Nov. '01 when the current recovery started. Wage data cover 82% of the private sector workforce, 92 million jobs.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
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Cashing in that home equity is all. Economy is still way messed up - fundementally broken with wholesale slaughter of decent paying middle class jobs and those jobs creation, unless you work for the government. I don't know why you choose to quote a market thats been stagnent for 7 years now even with record spending by the government and consumers HE allowances. It's set up for a fall even if the RE "bubble" never happens when govt is forced to cut it's spending.

 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Cashing in that home equity is all. Economy is still way messed up - fundementally broken with wholesale slaughter of decent paying middle class jobs and those jobs creation, unless you work for the government. I don't know why you choose to quote a market thats been stagnent for 7 years now even with record spending by the government and consumers HE allowances. It's set up for a fall even if the RE "bubble" never happens when govt is forced to cut it's spending.

Every other year a new spending record is set...it's the nature of inflation.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Zebo
Cashing in that home equity is all. Economy is still way messed up - fundementally broken with wholesale slaughter of decent paying middle class jobs and those jobs creation, unless you work for the government. I don't know why you choose to quote a market thats been stagnent for 7 years now even with record spending by the government and consumers HE allowances. It's set up for a fall even if the RE "bubble" never happens when govt is forced to cut it's spending.

Every other year a new spending record is set...it's the nature of inflation.

When cato and other economists talk about "record govt pending" or "Largest growth since LBJ" they factor in inflation in thier equations. To not do so..well I've never seen it done that way.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: rudder
gift cards perhaps?

Perhaps, I know I spent all of my gift cards last month.

A gift card is a sale when it is purchased... not when it's used.


That is incorrect. For what efver reason, they are not counted until they are redeemed.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Fluke. Warm winter in Jan led to continued home construction, likely.

The economy is still as artificial as it has been for a while.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Fluke. Warm winter in Jan led to continued home construction, likely.

The economy is still as artificial as it has been for a while.

Hell, I'll take an "artificial" economy, looks pretty good to me.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Cashing in that home equity is all. Economy is still way messed up - fundementally broken with wholesale slaughter of decent paying middle class jobs and those jobs creation, unless you work for the government. I don't know why you choose to quote a market thats been stagnent for 7 years now even with record spending by the government and consumers HE allowances. It's set up for a fall even if the RE "bubble" never happens when govt is forced to cut it's spending.

That graph, Zebo, says it all. Thanks for posting that.