- Apr 27, 2000
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I already posted about this in this thread, but I figured I'd make my own topic to avoid total thread-jacking (though this thread feels a bit redundant . . . oh well).
Anyway, I'm looking at a new car in about 1-2 years. I really want something that can get me combined MPG of 40+, or at least 50 highway, without having to drive like too much of a grandma to get there.
The obvious solution is to buy new, and the candidates that I am considering are:
Toyota Prius
Pros: Combined 45 mpg is easily obtainable, with better fuel economy coming in city driving for some motorists.
Cons: $22k for the base model (what I would get), and . . . it's a Prius. The chance that Prii will sell for well over list in the event of another gas price spike is also quite high, so price and availability may be quite bad once I get around to buying.
Chevy Cruze
Pros: The 1.4 litre turbo version, which is supposed to produce 40 mpg combined, may be cheaper than the Prius. It also only weighs something like 2400-2450 pounds or so, so all kinds of minor engine/transmission mods may be possible to improve fuel economy even further. I've really been looking forward to this one.
Cons: No clue what the 1.4L model will cost, but supply/demand metrics will probably push it over the comfortable econobox price level. Just look at what VW charges for the TDI. Will also require 93 octane fuel (most likely) unlike the Prius, though, with fuel as expensive as it is now, or as expensive as it could be, an extra $.20-$.25 per gallon on fuel wouldn't be a nightmare. And, as with the Prius, price/availability on the Cruze will probably be awful if fuel goes back up to $4/gallon or higher.
Ford Fiesta:
Pros: Everyone seems to love this car, and watching Jeremy Clarkson storm a beach in one was awesome. Seems well-balanced, fast, and reliable. Base model will supposedly only be $14k once the 2011 model is released in the states, though I don't know if that model will be the best for fuel economy of all those that will be made available (hopefully so).
Cons: The Fiesta is advertised as getting 28/38 (or rather, it is advertised as looking like it will generate those mpg numbers when it is finally released), which is pretty close to what my current vehicle can muster, so I'm not sold on the idea of getting the Fiesta. It may be one tune away from being an awesome fuel-sipper, but I don't know how much I really want to buy a new car and then tune/mod it. At least at the price of $14k, I wouldn't feel as squeemish about doing so.
Jetta TDI:
Pros: VW claims it can get 58 mpg on the highway. Okay, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, even if the EPA says 30/41. Also, unlike the Cruze and Fiesta, you can actually buy one of these things today.
Cons: $22k for an econobox. Bleah! Plus it's a VW. I don't hate them or anything, but the failure rate on past VWs has me nervous. For the money I think I'd be better off with a Prius. Modding/tuning a TDI could be very interesting, however . . .
The other options involve rebuilding/modding an existing car to make it a fuel-sipper competitive with those that will be available 1-2 years from now, hopefully at a lower price point.
'04 Saturn Ion 1 Automatic
Pros: I own it, so I wouldn't have to put up any cash for the base car (and its fully-paid too). It also weights 2650 pounds wet and has a coefficient of drag of .32, which isn't too bad in either department. Not incredible, but not bad. There mere fact that it gets so much better fuel economy on the highway at speeds up to 75 mph (faster than that and fuel economy starts to drop off) seems to be an indicator that drag isn't what's holding the car back from better fuel economy. And I really like the engine for a number of reasons. It's reliable and, according to all outward appearances anyway, seems to be in excellent condition, at least as far as the body; frame; and undercarriage are concerned.
Cons: It's an auto, and fuel economy really seems to suffer in start/stop scenarios. If I did mod the car for fuel economy, I'd almost have to go manual. Finding ways to reduce the car's weight could be difficult since it is already so spartan. And, since it's a Saturn, availability of parts is not fantastic (they're out there, but not in great numbers, and some are stupidly expensive). Getting an intake, exhaust, and some other parts might require custom jobs and that could get expensive. The stock ECU would have to be replaced since the ECU for the 2.2L '04 Ion is still not supported by anyone, yet the one obvious replacement ECU (MegaSquirt 2) apparently doesn't support the ignition properly (or so I've read), forcing kludgey work-arounds just to use the replacement. The engine could be entirely replaced but I'd hate to toss one of the parts of the car that I like the most. Also, one of the most potentially-bedeviling problems from modding this car is that, as it is currently set up, the engine seems to hit an efficiency sweet-sport between 2k and 3-3.5k rpm; going to taller gears on a new transmission might make it very difficult to stay in that RPM range without significantly reducing the amount of power the engine produces within that RPM range. It might be possible to shift the engine's maximum efficiency range downward (or widen the power band a bit) by messing with intake, exhaust, and other things, but that might not be simple (custom intake/exhaust/throttle body/intake manifold/heads/cams, $$$). And, to further complicate matters, I've considered going the forced induction route (small turbo) to improve volumetric efficiency on the 2.2L, but getting the turbo to spool up at low RPMs could be quite a challenge. A twin turbo arrangement might fix that but that would be weird and expensive. Overall, if I make poor choices when choosing how to mod the car and when choosing what shop(s) to patronize, I could be out a lot of money. Plus there's the matter of trying to get a local credit union to help me finance the whole thing, which might not be easy. Trade-in value on the Ion would vanish (not that it's worth all that much now). The Ion has a suspicious vibration/rattle problem at high speeds, and I don't know what's causing it, though that tells me that it may be nearing time to get rid of the car (hinting that a restoration/mod effort could involve some unwanted repairs to parts I am not currently considering modding/replacing anyway).
Honda Civic (any year)
Pros: Civics are commonplace vehicles that are often well-built, lightweight, and thrifty on the fuel budget. Plus I know a guy who loves Civics and is good with fiberglass who can allegedly get a Civic down to 2k pounds (how streetable it is in that state is anyone's guess) and knows a good bit about Honda engines and engine modding/tuning. Honda Civics from the right model year are notorious for being reliable and durable cars, and the fact that they tend to rev high would make their engines a fairly good candidate for efficiency-through-forced induction. Due to availability of parts and other factors, modding a Civic should be a lot less expensive than modding my Ion, and in the case of a Civic that already has a manual transmission in it, I might not even need to swap out the engine OR transmission to do what I'd like. In fact, I would think a Civic with a D-class engine would do nicely. As an added bonus, I could keep my Ion as a daily while having work done on the Honda.
Cons: I don't own one, and finding one that hasn't had the crap beat out of it and is still affordable is a tad difficult. I'm sure there's one out there that would be right for my intended application but it could take awhile to find it, and financing the purchase of a used vehicle from a private party could be difficult. A Civic with serious problems in the body, frame, or undercarriage could cost so much to restore that it would eliminate the savings to be had from not necessarily needing to swap in a new transmission (or go to coilovers as a suspension upgrade, or go to a buggy standalone ECU, or any of the other wacky stuff I'd have to do to the poor Saturn). In any case, a full rebuild of engine and transmission would probably still be necessary, not that I would anticipate anything less from the Saturn as well (and a rebuild would make modding things easier anyway). The Civic's reputation as having a high trade-in value would be shot all to hell.
Other options include a late-model Fiero (!!), a 4-cylinder Camry from the early 90s (92 or earlier), a Suzuki Cultus variant (Geo Metro, etc), a used Insight (good luck), a used Yaris, or something along those lines. Given the fact that I am considering engine/transmission rebuild I'm open to many options that don't involve buying a car with serious rust problems or undercarriage stress/damage issues (don't want an axle failing on me while I'm driving along). I also prefer vehicles with modern engines since efficiency has gone up considerably on gasoline engines in the last 10 years or so (hell, look at what GM is doing with EcoTecs now versus what my 2.2L from '04 can do), though nothing says that I can't just drop a 1.3L TDI engine into something and call it a day. Well, aside from the expense involved but I digress.
If anyone has any feedback that might help me get going in the right direction, please let me know. In particular, I'd like to hear from someone who has built a DIY fuel-sipper (hands-on or through a shop) or knows of someone that has. The Insight with the 1.3L TDI engine is an excellent example of what can be accomplished with the right plan and execution, not that I expect to do anything quite that awesome myself. I have no idea how much that cost them in the end to do that.
Anyway, I'm looking at a new car in about 1-2 years. I really want something that can get me combined MPG of 40+, or at least 50 highway, without having to drive like too much of a grandma to get there.
The obvious solution is to buy new, and the candidates that I am considering are:
Toyota Prius
Pros: Combined 45 mpg is easily obtainable, with better fuel economy coming in city driving for some motorists.
Cons: $22k for the base model (what I would get), and . . . it's a Prius. The chance that Prii will sell for well over list in the event of another gas price spike is also quite high, so price and availability may be quite bad once I get around to buying.
Chevy Cruze
Pros: The 1.4 litre turbo version, which is supposed to produce 40 mpg combined, may be cheaper than the Prius. It also only weighs something like 2400-2450 pounds or so, so all kinds of minor engine/transmission mods may be possible to improve fuel economy even further. I've really been looking forward to this one.
Cons: No clue what the 1.4L model will cost, but supply/demand metrics will probably push it over the comfortable econobox price level. Just look at what VW charges for the TDI. Will also require 93 octane fuel (most likely) unlike the Prius, though, with fuel as expensive as it is now, or as expensive as it could be, an extra $.20-$.25 per gallon on fuel wouldn't be a nightmare. And, as with the Prius, price/availability on the Cruze will probably be awful if fuel goes back up to $4/gallon or higher.
Ford Fiesta:
Pros: Everyone seems to love this car, and watching Jeremy Clarkson storm a beach in one was awesome. Seems well-balanced, fast, and reliable. Base model will supposedly only be $14k once the 2011 model is released in the states, though I don't know if that model will be the best for fuel economy of all those that will be made available (hopefully so).
Cons: The Fiesta is advertised as getting 28/38 (or rather, it is advertised as looking like it will generate those mpg numbers when it is finally released), which is pretty close to what my current vehicle can muster, so I'm not sold on the idea of getting the Fiesta. It may be one tune away from being an awesome fuel-sipper, but I don't know how much I really want to buy a new car and then tune/mod it. At least at the price of $14k, I wouldn't feel as squeemish about doing so.
Jetta TDI:
Pros: VW claims it can get 58 mpg on the highway. Okay, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, even if the EPA says 30/41. Also, unlike the Cruze and Fiesta, you can actually buy one of these things today.
Cons: $22k for an econobox. Bleah! Plus it's a VW. I don't hate them or anything, but the failure rate on past VWs has me nervous. For the money I think I'd be better off with a Prius. Modding/tuning a TDI could be very interesting, however . . .
The other options involve rebuilding/modding an existing car to make it a fuel-sipper competitive with those that will be available 1-2 years from now, hopefully at a lower price point.
'04 Saturn Ion 1 Automatic
Pros: I own it, so I wouldn't have to put up any cash for the base car (and its fully-paid too). It also weights 2650 pounds wet and has a coefficient of drag of .32, which isn't too bad in either department. Not incredible, but not bad. There mere fact that it gets so much better fuel economy on the highway at speeds up to 75 mph (faster than that and fuel economy starts to drop off) seems to be an indicator that drag isn't what's holding the car back from better fuel economy. And I really like the engine for a number of reasons. It's reliable and, according to all outward appearances anyway, seems to be in excellent condition, at least as far as the body; frame; and undercarriage are concerned.
Cons: It's an auto, and fuel economy really seems to suffer in start/stop scenarios. If I did mod the car for fuel economy, I'd almost have to go manual. Finding ways to reduce the car's weight could be difficult since it is already so spartan. And, since it's a Saturn, availability of parts is not fantastic (they're out there, but not in great numbers, and some are stupidly expensive). Getting an intake, exhaust, and some other parts might require custom jobs and that could get expensive. The stock ECU would have to be replaced since the ECU for the 2.2L '04 Ion is still not supported by anyone, yet the one obvious replacement ECU (MegaSquirt 2) apparently doesn't support the ignition properly (or so I've read), forcing kludgey work-arounds just to use the replacement. The engine could be entirely replaced but I'd hate to toss one of the parts of the car that I like the most. Also, one of the most potentially-bedeviling problems from modding this car is that, as it is currently set up, the engine seems to hit an efficiency sweet-sport between 2k and 3-3.5k rpm; going to taller gears on a new transmission might make it very difficult to stay in that RPM range without significantly reducing the amount of power the engine produces within that RPM range. It might be possible to shift the engine's maximum efficiency range downward (or widen the power band a bit) by messing with intake, exhaust, and other things, but that might not be simple (custom intake/exhaust/throttle body/intake manifold/heads/cams, $$$). And, to further complicate matters, I've considered going the forced induction route (small turbo) to improve volumetric efficiency on the 2.2L, but getting the turbo to spool up at low RPMs could be quite a challenge. A twin turbo arrangement might fix that but that would be weird and expensive. Overall, if I make poor choices when choosing how to mod the car and when choosing what shop(s) to patronize, I could be out a lot of money. Plus there's the matter of trying to get a local credit union to help me finance the whole thing, which might not be easy. Trade-in value on the Ion would vanish (not that it's worth all that much now). The Ion has a suspicious vibration/rattle problem at high speeds, and I don't know what's causing it, though that tells me that it may be nearing time to get rid of the car (hinting that a restoration/mod effort could involve some unwanted repairs to parts I am not currently considering modding/replacing anyway).
Honda Civic (any year)
Pros: Civics are commonplace vehicles that are often well-built, lightweight, and thrifty on the fuel budget. Plus I know a guy who loves Civics and is good with fiberglass who can allegedly get a Civic down to 2k pounds (how streetable it is in that state is anyone's guess) and knows a good bit about Honda engines and engine modding/tuning. Honda Civics from the right model year are notorious for being reliable and durable cars, and the fact that they tend to rev high would make their engines a fairly good candidate for efficiency-through-forced induction. Due to availability of parts and other factors, modding a Civic should be a lot less expensive than modding my Ion, and in the case of a Civic that already has a manual transmission in it, I might not even need to swap out the engine OR transmission to do what I'd like. In fact, I would think a Civic with a D-class engine would do nicely. As an added bonus, I could keep my Ion as a daily while having work done on the Honda.
Cons: I don't own one, and finding one that hasn't had the crap beat out of it and is still affordable is a tad difficult. I'm sure there's one out there that would be right for my intended application but it could take awhile to find it, and financing the purchase of a used vehicle from a private party could be difficult. A Civic with serious problems in the body, frame, or undercarriage could cost so much to restore that it would eliminate the savings to be had from not necessarily needing to swap in a new transmission (or go to coilovers as a suspension upgrade, or go to a buggy standalone ECU, or any of the other wacky stuff I'd have to do to the poor Saturn). In any case, a full rebuild of engine and transmission would probably still be necessary, not that I would anticipate anything less from the Saturn as well (and a rebuild would make modding things easier anyway). The Civic's reputation as having a high trade-in value would be shot all to hell.
Other options include a late-model Fiero (!!), a 4-cylinder Camry from the early 90s (92 or earlier), a Suzuki Cultus variant (Geo Metro, etc), a used Insight (good luck), a used Yaris, or something along those lines. Given the fact that I am considering engine/transmission rebuild I'm open to many options that don't involve buying a car with serious rust problems or undercarriage stress/damage issues (don't want an axle failing on me while I'm driving along). I also prefer vehicles with modern engines since efficiency has gone up considerably on gasoline engines in the last 10 years or so (hell, look at what GM is doing with EcoTecs now versus what my 2.2L from '04 can do), though nothing says that I can't just drop a 1.3L TDI engine into something and call it a day. Well, aside from the expense involved but I digress.
If anyone has any feedback that might help me get going in the right direction, please let me know. In particular, I'd like to hear from someone who has built a DIY fuel-sipper (hands-on or through a shop) or knows of someone that has. The Insight with the 1.3L TDI engine is an excellent example of what can be accomplished with the right plan and execution, not that I expect to do anything quite that awesome myself. I have no idea how much that cost them in the end to do that.
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