[Resolved]:About the forum climate in the Distributed Computing Forum

[petrusbroder]

I am quite upset about the three threads locked in the Distributed Computing forum. Link
I am also upset about the way TAndy was given such a long vacation - especially now that we are starting a a race in our forums.

We have a long standing tradition (i.e. at least the four years I have been around) of having now and then (usually once a week) one or two OT-threads and/or NEF-threads. These threads promote the DC-team's coherence, make the computing much more fun and promote the good social atmosphere in the DC-forum.

We have not hade three threads locked for any time since I joined and I am in the forums at least 340 days a year.
The thread by TAndy was not - AFAIK - offensive, it linked to a movie which is by most regarded as humorous.
I am not aware of anybody given a vacation for posting OT-threads in the DC-forum during the past 4 years.
I have posted such threads myself, and some of them have had hundreds of posts.

In the DC-forum we also have a long standing tradition of policing ourselves. I would say that we have greater freedom than in most other forums because we take more responsibility for what we post. There have not been any personal attacs, any offensive threads or posts or any offences against the rules of the AnandTech forums (OK, except the occasional OT- or NEF-thread) in four years.

In contrast to many other forums our forum has also a social function because we represent AnandTech in distributed computing where our team is one of the best regarded and one of the more successful teams in the world ( we are among the top-20 in most projects ...)

I have a some questions:

Does the locking of the threads in the DC-forum represent a change in the long standing practice (for at least 4 years) of allowing some OT- or NEF-threads in the DC-forum?

Does the vacation of TAndy represent a change in the long standing practice of policing ourselves?
Please do not respond to this with the idea that "you did not police the thread properly" because the Moderator locked the thread so fast that we did not have a chance to react, especially considering the tradions in DC-forum.

Does this matter indicate a harsher climate in the DC-forum?

Does this matter mean that one Moderator will make some profound changes in how the DC-forum is?

If yes, I will reconsider my participation because one of the most important reasons for posting and taking part in the DC-forum is the friendly, open, responsible and humorous social climate in the DC-forum.

This post is a part of a PM sent to the AnandTech Moderators.

I am posting this because I want an open discussion about how the DC-forum is moderated and if this moderating is going to change.

Edit: spelling - at least some of the errors ...
Edit: Changed headline.

 

[Freewolf]

I don't know who this bsobel is and don't remember ever seeing a post by him in the dc forum but if he is a sign of things to come in the dc forum then it's time for me,myself, and I to find an new place to call home. I know friendlier places i can call home.

 

[Markfw]

edited...

See below.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Freewolf
I don't know who this bsobel is and don't remember ever seeing a post by him in the dc forum but if he is a sign of things to come in the dc forum then it's time for me,myself, and I to find an new place to call home. I know friendlier places i can call home.

bsobel is an elite senior moderator. I will see what I can do, but his(or her) word is WAY over my authority.

 

[petrusbroder]

I have had a PM-conversation with bsobel.
That conversation I will not post here since it is PM.

The gist is that bsobel will check with the other senior moderators to see if we have more latitude at DC.
I hope bsobel will return with some answer sooner or later.

I also hope that we will have the same freedom we have had for the past 4 years I have been a member of this community.
I also propose that bsobel checks in now and then and sees how things are over at DC ...

 

[Markfw]

I have also raised the issue with senior mods to discuss. Thats all I can say,

 

[petrusbroder]

Thanks Markfw900!
I'll PM to FMC and Smoke.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: petrusbroder
Thanks Markfw900!
I'll PM to FMC and Smoke.

I already did. But that OK.

 

[GLeeM]

I have to agree about the TeAm comraderie created by the threads that might seem to some to be off topic. They have been a weekly thing for a long time!

I don't know if TAndy posts much in other forums, he might be like me and stick mostly to the DC forum where I know I will be treated nicely, even when I make a mistake.

Where's Greg and/or Ray?

 

[winr]

I have been busy and havent posted much or crunched gor that matter.....but I cant even stand to read "Off Topic" or "Politics"

The hate and venom if thick over there.

DC is the nicest place as far as I am concerned....:sun:


.......but..I may Join Freewolf..............


Hey TAandy. :beer:

 

[Markfw]

Here is the part that really angered the mod:

whatever your problem is, keep it to yourself!

Thats a mod call out, and not allowed. The rest is under discussion.

 

[petrusbroder]

Please note, that I am not questioning TAndy's vacation. He really has provoced the Moderator.

OTOH: if the Mode had known how we look at OT, then he/she may not have locked that topic ... and then nothing would have happended.

Please: the vacation is not the topic of this discussion. The social climate over at DC is.

 

[Zim Hosein]

As a member of the TeAm, I just want to chime in and say that we are actively discussing the issue.

 

[Markfw]

And we have more action...I can;t say yet, but Anandtech is taking this very seriously. Please give us time to resolve correctly.

REMEMBER THOUGH, MOD CALL OUTS ARE NEVER ALLOWED !

But that was after the start of the "snowball".

 

[PCTC2]

It seems lately that the OT-DC threads have been lacking, but in the past few months, I recall many OT threads by TAndy and Rudy, and also many NEF threads that we all participated in. Even an attempt at another "Please Delete". I, myself, posted about the closeness with the TeAm in the OT threads. None of these prior threads were locked. They're fun and I am one to agree that OT and Nef threads are an inherent part of the DC Community here with the TeAm. I am one to vote to keep the climate of the DC Forum filled with the ocassional OT and Nef threads.

Thanks Petrus and everyone else.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: PCTC2
It seems lately that the OT-DC threads have been lacking, but in the past few months, I recall many OT threads by TAndy and Rudy, and also many NEF threads that we all participated in. Even an attempt at another "Please Delete". I, myself, posted about the closeness with the TeAm in the OT threads. None of these prior threads were locked. They're fun and I am one to agree that OT and Nef threads are an inherent part of the DC Community here with the TeAm. I am one to vote to keep the climate of the DC Forum filled with the ocassional OT and Nef threads.

Thanks Petrus and everyone else.

We hear you, and are actively taking steps to resolve this situation. Anyone, even with the very best of intentions, can make a mistake. Mods are human, too. It is unfortunate that TAandy repeatedly responded as he did, but the entire sequence of events is under review, and we hope to come quickly to a positive and productive solution.

Please bear with us.

 

[Markfw]

Thanks Perknose !

 

[PCTC2]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Thanks Perknose !

:thumbsup:

 

[Rudy Toody]

I have gotten here a little late, but I will say that I am one of the OT abusers with Believe It, Or Don't! which I posted every Thursday. Some were meant to evoke discussion and some were meant only to amuse. I have found in my 3 years here that an occassional OT/NEF thread gets everybody invoved in things other than DC. The only thread that I ever started that was locked, was one in OT because someone flamed me about my sig. And I flamed back.

I transferred to the TeAm from KWSN bringing 35K credits with me. Now I am closing in on 3 million credits and have enjoyed every minute of it! When I wanted to leave KWSN, I searched around to find a team that would put up with my humor and stupid noob questions. And a team who occassionally would let me discuss my hobby of counseling nymphomaniacs. This is the TeAm! It would be a shame to destroy this zeitgeist.

--Fred Kline

 

[RaySun2Be]

Originally posted by: GLeeM
I have to agree about the TeAm comraderie created by the threads that might seem to some to be off topic. They have been a weekly thing for a long time!

I don't know if TAndy posts much in other forums, he might be like me and stick mostly to the DC forum where I know I will be treated nicely, even when I make a mistake.

Where's Greg and/or Ray?

I'm late to the party, been busy with the RL holiday stuff.

As others have stated, it is being discussed among the mods (I put my 2 cents in), so let's all take a deep breath, please be patient, don't do anything rash, and have a calm discussion about this.

I personally agree that the original thread should not have been locked and that Bsobel probably didn't know the OT history in DC.

I also agree that TAndy did call out the mod, and that is a vacationable offense. As a Mod, I would agree with that action.

Let's all take this lesson to heart, if a thread of yours gets locked or edited by a Mod, either PM the mod, or post a question here. There are acceptable methods of getting questions asked, problems vented. Calling out mods in multiple threads will just lead to a vacation, and not resolve anything.

Thanks.

 

[petrusbroder]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: PCTC2
It seems lately that the OT-DC threads have been lacking, but in the past few months, I recall many OT threads by TAndy and Rudy, and also many NEF threads that we all participated in. Even an attempt at another "Please Delete". I, myself, posted about the closeness with the TeAm in the OT threads. None of these prior threads were locked. They're fun and I am one to agree that OT and Nef threads are an inherent part of the DC Community here with the TeAm. I am one to vote to keep the climate of the DC Forum filled with the ocassional OT and Nef threads.

Thanks Petrus and everyone else.

We hear you, and are actively taking steps to resolve this situation. Anyone, even with the very best of intentions, can make a mistake. Mods are human, too. It is unfortunate that TAandy repeatedly responded as he did, but the entire sequence of events is under review, and we hope to come quickly to a positive and productive solution.

Please bear with us.

No problem, we have the time. I am not disputing the right of the Moderator(s) to respond to "Moderator call out" according to the existing rules.
We are however sensitive to the "feel" of the DC-forum, which is important to us. That feel is very much different from the one in e.g. OT. We do not want to break any rules, but to discuss their application in our DC-forum.

What has been acceptable for many weeks, months or even years becomes with time an "unofficial" rule. That unofficial rule becomes with time a right. When that right is discussed or removed (even when in accordance with the letter of the existing rules) then there is a reaction.

As long as I feel that we are seen (or listened to) the dialogue will go on. Out of this dialogue a new code of behaviour will grow. We want this to be as close to our old one, because it seems to us that it has worked very well.

If one of us makes a mistake, not all of us should pay for it.
If several of us consistently break the rules, then a general solution is needed.
I do not think that a general solution is needed in this case.

The freedom, friendliness, politeness and humour shown in the DC-forum should also be the mark of this discussion. The moderators are human (Thank God [which ever you believe in...] for that!!!) and we are a tolerant bunch of people. The moderator acted according to the rules as he/she saw it. As I understand it, the only problem is that the accepted code of behaviour (in contrast to the written code of behaviour) was not known to the moderator.

If the latitude in the DC-forum becomes a magnet for people who abuse it then we may indeed have a problem. We have a bunch of elected moderators (Smoke, RaySun2Be, FullMetal Chocobo) who can help us to keep discipline and order. I would not mind if the group of elected moderators in the DC-forum would increase, as long as the elected moderators are very familiar with the DC-forum, are mature, have patience and are generous in a correct way. That way some moderator can keep an eye on the DC-forum and we can go on policing our selves.

And that is what we want - good behaviour through self control. If someone does not have the discipline within him/herself (because of e.g. too many :beer:, anger, feeling hurt or what not), then we can help him/her. If we can not, the elected moderators should act. If that is not efficient, then the senior moderators should be called in.

RaySun2Be has a very famous cane. He waves it some times. Some other has a big smelly fish. Between the cane and the fish we can keep order among our selves.

Please forgive me this long post. Human behaviour, freedom of expressing ourselves and policing ourselves are complex ideas and sometimes space is needed for explanation.

 

[Rudy Toody]

Thanks, Peter. Well reasoned and eloquently stated.

 

[bsobel]

What has been acceptable for many weeks, months or even years becomes with time an "unofficial" rule. That unofficial rule becomes with time a right. When that right is discussed or removed (even when in accordance with the letter of the existing rules) then there is a reaction.

Gang, there is/was no concerted effort to modify the feel of the DC forums. I ran across the original post looking at new posts and moving a few items to the correct category. I screwed up locking that post and a quick PM from the OP or another DC member would have fixed the issue.

The issue spiraled after the OP continued to post in DC after being told not to, and then started sending me a series of bizarre PM's. I've posted the PM's for the other moderators to review. I wound up having to block PM's from the OP, so I haven't received anything since.

I'll unlock the original post and unblock the OP, given its been almost a day his frame of mind might be different that it was last night and hopefully we can come to a better resolution regarding his vacation.

Fair enough?
Bill

 

[GLeeM]

Originally posted by: bsobel

What has been acceptable for many weeks, months or even years becomes with time an "unofficial" rule. That unofficial rule becomes with time a right. When that right is discussed or removed (even when in accordance with the letter of the existing rules) then there is a reaction.

Gang, there is/was no concerted effort to modify the feel of the DC forums. I ran across the original post looking at new posts and moving a few items to the correct category. I screwed up locking that post and a quick PM from the OP or another DC member would have fixed the issue.

The issue spiraled after the OP continued to post in DC after being told not to, and then started sending me a series of bizarre PM's. I've posted the PM's for the other moderators to review. I wound up having to block PM's from the OP, so I haven't received anything since.

I'll unlock the original post and unblock the OP, given its been almost a day his frame of mind might be different that it was last night and hopefully we can come to a better resolution regarding his vacation.

Fair enough?
Bill

Thanks Bill!

And thanks to ALL moderators for the time you put in and for the service you perform for this community. I would guess it is mostly a thankless job.

 

[petrusbroder]

Thank you, Bill, for your answer.

AFAIK there was no request of unlocking the original post. However, I at least appreciate the gesture. I will not post in that thread. I think - due to the spiralling of this issue - it may be best to let the thread and this issue just cool down.

The OP behaved inappropriately when he sent you "bizarre" PMs. For that he was given a vacation. AFAIK no one questioned that either (except me before I knew more ...).

If we may have our occasional OT-thread, with some fun, humour or jokes, then we are happy. Rudy Toody, our in-house stand up comedian, once a week starts a "Believe it or Not" - thread with some kind of more or less bizarre joke and others follow up. TAndy often posts a Friday evening post when he is relaxing (in several ways ... ).

I think we know where the limits are. If not, our elected moderators will tell us. If they don't then a senior mod will - sooner or later.

Feel free to visit us. You?ll get a friendly welcome.

Oh, BTW, if you feel like contributing to science, you'll be welcome as a cruncher in the TeAm.
Google for BOINC, install it, choose a project, join the TeAm AnandTech, the stats, the dependence ...
Distributed Computing is as addictive as any kind of drug or booze, but much more fun!