Requirements for IT positions or jobs similar.

[Tristicus]

Okay, so the situation is that I'm soon to finish high school and do not want to attend college. I don't want to pay for it, and I don't really want to go. I'm lazy when it comes to schoolwork and my GPA suffers because of it, so I'd only be going to community college anyways.

However...

I can't get away from all the naysayers that preach that college is the only way to go to get a job. My father didn't go to college, and he had a great job for years that transferred into another great one which transferred into another good one. He worked with computers, what he loved, and I'd like to do the same in some way, shape, or form. A friend who worked with my father at MT never finished high school. He did do courses afterwards and such I'm sure, but again..didn't do much and constantly tells me school is a waste of time for lots of people like I feel it is me. I would love to go into game design or work at a company and work my way up in rank (something like that), but that will take time and isn't a reasonable approach coming straight out of high school. I realize full time IT positions and such are probably out of my league for the moment as well. However I'd like to get on track for a job somewhere in the computer field.

What are usually the prerequisites for these types of jobs? I know computers, and have worked with them all my life, and can figure out things pertaining to them pretty quickly if I need to. I do know that that kind of experience really means nothing in the job world. Basically..what is a good way to go into this field or work my way up? Do I need school? And if so, would a two year business degree at a CC be fine? Even online?

And I know it is hard to get a job right now and will be harder, blah. I'm not looking for those types of answers at the moment however. I'm having a hard enough time finding a job ATM as is, so I know.



Locked at OP's request


esquared
Anandtech Administrator

 

[Matthiasa]

Even a 2 year thing would help... For most people a degree is just something showing that they can be trained and can potentially learn. Most companies do however have limits as to what people can have based on their degrees no matter how good they are at what they.

 

[nick1985]

Considering even help-desk monkey jobs want 4 year degrees these days, I wish you the best of luck

 

[SandEagle]

OP, you sound like a straight shooter. You got management written all over you.

Kidding aside, technical certs can get you far: CCNA, MCSE, OCP, VMWare certs

 

[nick1985]

OP, you sound like a straight shooter. You got management written all over you.

Kidding aside, technical certs can get you far: CCNA, MCSE, OCP, VMWare certs

VMWare is all the rage these days

 

[Vette73]

Yep get at least a 2 year degree and a good amount of CERTS

 

[wheresmybacon]

Every kid these days "knows computers". Unless you fall into something via blind luck and know somebody somewhere, it's very unlikely you can even get a phone support job with zero school, zero certs, and zero formal experience.

I know college isn't for everyone, but the reality is most places require at least a 2 year degree to even be considered.

If you don't want to go to college, show some initiative and get some certs. Certs alone aren't a ticket to employment, but they can get your foot in the door.

 

[Tristicus]

Every kid these days "knows computers".

You'd be suprised. And I'm not talking about how to make a Myspace or install a game.

 

[StageLeft]

You are lazy. That much is obvious. You also appear oblivious to the fact that you are not your dad; back in "his day" a high school education at least got you something. Today it only proves you can (barely) wipe your own ass. That's why you need a degree, and community college is better than just a high school diploma.

All I'm doing, though, is echoing what EVERYONE in your life has told you.

I am positive you'll ignore all the good advise you get because really you didn't make this thread looking for advise, you made it looking for a way to feel better about a bad decision that you are too stubborn to admit is bad. Hopefully somebody will shake you out of this silly notion of yours.

I work in IT, btw, we have lowly paid interns who are working toward degrees. We wouldn't even think of taking in somebody who couldn't be bothered to get anything past highschool. Further, this is the first company I've ever actually worked in that bothered with interns. Nobody would ever have looked at my resume without my degree. And nobody will look at yours, either.

I know school sucks. I hated it. I hated it as much as you hate it, I bet, but I knew it had to be done.

 

[Pantlegz]

You'd be suprised. And I'm not talking about how to make a Myspace or install a game.

No he's serious, without formal education AND certs you're shit out of luck getting you foot in the door unless someone knows you. I recently got my A.A.S and getting certs at the moment and I'm lucky I got a job paying less than I wanted, especially with the economy still in the shitter. Really experience is all anyone cares about but to get that you have to get the basic's down at least, if you want to make good money you'll need an education, certs and a good 5 years of experience. just look at monster.com, look at the salaries and requirements it's not that difficult, decide how much you want to make and you'll get a good idea of what you need to do to get there.

The good thing about IT imo is that you can build up a little at a time, or if you're happy making 60k just don't renew your certs and you can float there unless you're worthless and the company kicks you to the curb then you're fucked.

 

[seepy83]

Tristicus,
My folks didn't go to college either, and they have great jobs. But I knew I had to go to college. Why? Because today isn't 30 years ago. It's a different job market out there than it was when your dad was your age. I don't intend to convince you that you're wrong or change your mind, but I would encourage you to get your bachelors degree. You can't get a job at a video game design company just because you like video games. People get good jobs by proving that they are talented. When you don't have real-world experience, you start proving your talents by going to college. If you "know computers" as well as you think, then an undergraduate program in CS/CIS/MIS should be no problem for you. Yes, you will need to take a bunch of general requirements that probably won't help you at all in the future. As an IT manager, I can tell you that a bachelors degree proves to me that someone is willing to overcome obstacles and achieve a goal. The degree might not prove that you were the best in your class, can write excellent code, understand the in's and out's of the OSI model, etc. but at least it proves that you took the time to invest in your future.

If you choose to not go to college, I wish you the best of luck...your career path will probably be much longer, more tedious, and full of missed opportunities because you don't have a degree.

 

[nick1985]

Tristicus,
My folks didn't go to college either, and they have great jobs. But I knew I had to go to college. Why? Because today isn't 30 years ago. It's a different job market out there than it was when your dad was your age. I don't intend to convince you that you're wrong or change your mind, but I would encourage you to get your bachelors degree. You can't get a job at a video game design company just because you like video games. People get good jobs by proving that they are talented. When you don't have real-world experience, you start proving your talents by going to college. If you "know computers" as well as you think, then an undergraduate program in CS/CIS/MIS should be no problem for you. Yes, you will need to take a bunch of general requirements that probably won't help you at all in the future. As an IT manager, I can tell you that a bachelors degree proves to me that someone is willing to overcome obstacles and achieve a goal. The degree might not prove that you were the best in your class, can write excellent code, understand the in's and out's of the OSI model, etc. but at least it proves that you took the time to invest in your future.

If you choose to not go to college, I wish you the best of luck...your career path will probably be much longer, more tedious, and full of missed opportunities because you don't have a degree.

Scathing, yet accurate. Would read again.

 

[timosyy]

"Knows computers" is pretty vague. Do you have demonstrable skillsets? Have you worked an internship before? Group experience?

I'm finishing up my Bachelors in Business IT (with a very good job offer coming out), and while I like to say I didn't learn all that much, it did give me a surprising amount of buzzwords and experience to throw around in interviews. Through my major I have gained working knowledge of the .NET framework (VB, ASP), PHP, Java, and SQL; set up and administered Linux servers using CLI; and probably more importantly, understand the Software Development Life Cycle, have enough coursework to get certified in Project Management, and took lead on/managed numerous team software development projects.

When I came out of high school, I was "good with computers", but I certainly didn't know the difference between say, the Waterfall method vs. Agile software development.

 

[eldorado99]

I work in IT, I have a 2 year CIS diploma at the moment and am working towards the degree. My employer hired me on as an intern while I was in 1st year of college and that is the lowest tier they have employed in IT. Good luck kid. You really ought to think about at least doing a 2 year diploma. For me, the 2 years of terrible school resulted in a 60K per year job with full benefits (gov't).

 

[Tristicus]

Goddamn FireFox randomly crashing when I've typed long responses. I'm typing shit in Word from now on.

In short: I don't want to build up copious amounts of debt that I won't pay off, I'm not looking to be a millionaire or make three figures or close to that a year. I realize these things take hard work and dedication, and I'm not lazy at things that I want to learn that will help me in life. What I DON'T want to do is go to a school where I learn what Lincoln did the night of his assassination or how to construct the perfect sentence.

 

[FoBoT]

i see a cube farm in your future

 

[LittleNemoNES]

You REALLY should go to at least community college. There will ALWAYS be a stigma attached to us non-college goers once you reach higher levels.
No matter how good you are, a diploma will make you look better.

Conversely, I've seen some really inept people get great paying jobs just cos they did their sleeping in class instead of their living room.

Think about...

 

[eldorado99]

Goddamn FireFox randomly crashing when I've typed long responses. I'm typing shit in Word from now on.

In short: I don't want to build up copious amounts of debt that I won't pay off

I don't know what you consider "copious" and I realize it is probably different where you live and so forth, but when I was issued my diploma I only had 4 grand in student loan debt, which took about 3 months to pay off.

 

[Tristicus]

I don't know what you consider "copious" and I realize it is probably different where you live and so forth, but when I was issued my diploma I only had 4 grand in student loan debt, which took about 3 months to pay off.

And where did you go to school? I'm talking about a 4 year college/university like people say I should attend. This is with no job at the moment, so barely any time to save, no scholarships (no hope in hell of getting one), no mommy and daddy to pay my way, etc. I could obviously work through that if a job was possible, but you can understand what I mean?

 

[LittleNemoNES]

And where did you go to school? I'm talking about a 4 year college/university like people say I should attend. This is with no job at the moment, so barely any time to save, no scholarships (no hope in hell of getting one), no mommy and daddy to pay my way, etc. I could obviously work through that if a job was possible, but you can understand what I mean?

Work at a help desk and tell them you are a student (of course, attend a community college).

There are some nice people out there looking for relatively cheap IT solutions. I basically get free reign where I work as long as my ideas make sense.

You sound like you're in the same place in life as me except I have mommy and daddy around...but they are unemployed!
I really regret not going to school back when I had the energy.

 

[StageLeft]

Goddamn FireFox randomly crashing when I've typed long responses. I'm typing shit in Word from now on.

In short: I don't want to build up copious amounts of debt that I won't pay off, I'm not looking to be a millionaire or make three figures or close to that a year. I realize these things take hard work and dedication, and I'm not lazy at things that I want to learn that will help me in life. What I DON'T want to do is go to a school where I learn what Lincoln did the night of his assassination or how to construct the perfect sentence.

Of course you are. That's why you made this thread; that's why you called people giving you good advice "naysayers".

I was right in my first post. You never came here looking for advice, you came here looking for people who would agree with you and make you feel better about a decision you've already made. And you will be hard pressed to find it because it's an idiotic decision.

However, it's not too late and you can back track on it and get an education.

And that debt you're talking about is a stupid reason. You would know, if you had more education, that debt used to get meaningful degrees is one of the best investments you can make. Who do you want to be, the guy with no debt making $22k/year telemarketing and getting told by people to never call him again or the guy $50k in debt out of school and making $60k soon and retiring later at $100k?

Currently you have the needs of a teenager so you may think $22k is ok. When you had real responsibilities it won't be.

And where did you go to school? I'm talking about a 4 year college/university like people say I should attend. This is with no job at the moment, so barely any time to save, no scholarships (no hope in hell of getting one), no mommy and daddy to pay my way, etc. I could obviously work through that if a job was possible, but you can understand what I mean?

Don't get to your eyeballs in debt getting a piece of crap degree. If you don't have the grades to get a "real" degree such as engineering, then go to a community college and learn directly some vocation. Why, btw, are you stuck on IT? There are plenty of others with arguably better job stability and great pay, it's just that they may have stigmas attached to them, e.g. electrician or plumber. I am in IT and one day my job may go to somebody in India, but you can't plumb a house over the internet.

 

[eldorado99]

And where did you go to school? I'm talking about a 4 year college/university like people say I should attend. This is with no job at the moment, so barely any time to save, no scholarships (no hope in hell of getting one), no mommy and daddy to pay my way, etc. I could obviously work through that if a job was possible, but you can understand what I mean?

Yeah and like I said it's probably different where you live. I did nothing but get a couple grand in scholarships, work my way through, and get student loans. No mommy and daddy paying my way here. Do what you want, life is your bitch, but I bet if you don't go to school next year you'll end up there sometime in the next 10 years.

 

[bobdole369]

What are usually the prerequisites for these types of jobs? I know computers, and have worked with them all my life, and can figure out things pertaining to them pretty quickly if I need to. I do know that that kind of experience really means nothing in the job world. Basically..what is a good way to go into this field or work my way up? Do I need school? And if so, would a two year business degree at a CC be fine? Even online?

I'm an actual hiring manager (admittedly a junior one, but I do hire folks for IT for our company) When looking at a candidate I do not care where they went to school.

In fact the ATI's, ITT techs, FastTrain, "The Academy" or any non-traditional school (such as the Art Institute for Art (they have a surprisingly good culinary academy), or a for-profit or correspondence school such as Univ of Phoenix all get lumped into the "lazy school" category and I consider them the same as if they did not go to school. It is worse than not going to school.

Community college degrees are held in high regard, and traditional 4 year degrees perhaps passed over as overqualified.

We hire on skill set. What software can you successfully:

1. Program (languages)
2. Install, Troubleshoot, Maintain (commercial software)
3. Utilize to improve productivity.

With which operating systems have you had actual experience?

1. In what capacity?
2. Your involvement (did you step outside your comfort area)?
3. Your ability to leverage tools.

I could care less that you "know computers". What I want to know is "can you understand this app that you've never seen as SQL based, get down to the query level, take apart the query and understand that the data are corrupt for that row? That is versus that perhaps the query is misconstructed.

I suggest you find a call center, or a helpdesk, or similar job. You need a few years in the trenches, whilst doing college a couple classes at a time. By the time you are 23 you'll be about halfway through an associates and will be in a really good position to write your own check out there.

 

[FleshLight]

Two words:

Ar my

 

[Bateluer]

you are lazy. That much is obvious. You also appear oblivious to the fact that you are not your dad; back in "his day" a high school education at least got you something. Today it only proves you can (barely) wipe your own ass. That's why you need a degree, and community college is better than just a high school diploma.

All i'm doing, though, is echoing what everyone in your life has told you.

I am positive you'll ignore all the good advise you get because really you didn't make this thread looking for advise, you made it looking for a way to feel better about a bad decision that you are too stubborn to admit is bad. Hopefully somebody will shake you out of this silly notion of yours.

I work in it, btw, we have lowly paid interns who are working toward degrees. We wouldn't even think of taking in somebody who couldn't be bothered to get anything past highschool. Further, this is the first company i've ever actually worked in that bothered with interns. Nobody would ever have looked at my resume without my degree. And nobody will look at yours, either.

I know school sucks. I hated it. I hated it as much as you hate it, i bet, but i knew it had to be done.

qft