Request for feedback on new rig

[coremortality]

I'm building a new rig and wanted to request some feedback from everyone.

Just a bit about how, why, what, etc.:

Unlimited budget. I'm looking to achieve some specific goals.

Uses:
- Gaming
- Game Level Design (Hobby)
- Family Use (photography, photo editing, home videos editing, etc.)

Goals:
- Quiet
- Reliable/Stable
- Semi-Future Proof (Silly but I just don't want to upgrade again for another 4 years at least)

The machine is going to be located in a living room of a 900 sqft house so I'm trying to reduce the noise level as much as possible. House is in SoCal, is old and has no AC and the room is facing west with a giant window so cooling is a big concern because if it's 100 outside then it's probably only 90 inside. Water cooling isn't an option because of two small and very curious children in the house. The only parts that I'm going to be reusing are my current monitory, keyboard, mouse and four Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB.

I've read the reviews of the Corsair 550D vs the Antec P280 and find the acoustic differences to be so minimal that I'd rather have the extra space of the P280.

I don't see a point in getting a BluRay player/burner for this machine since it wont be used as an HTPC and wont be used to play movies.

I do not plan on overclocking, however I do want the best performance I can get.

So this is what I've spec'ed out so far:
CPU Cooling - Noctua NH-U12P (Looked at the U14 but I'm concerned about it's size and ram clearance.)
CPU - ??? (I'm guessing I'll end up going with an i7 IB processor but I don't know what models will be available or their differences)
GPU - ??? (Debating between buying a GTX 580 now or waiting a few more weeks for a GTX 680)
DVD - Lite-On iHAS424-98
Case - Antec P280
PSU - Corsair 750W CMPSU-750AX
Mobo - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H
RAM - Corsair 32GB 4x8GB CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10
HDD - Samsung 830 Series 256GB MZ-7PC256B/WW

Thanks for any feedback,

-CM

edits:

I'm in the USA
Resolution is a 1080P monitor.
I have no brand preference
There is no date for build, at the moment I'm just looking for parts to meet my goals. If I come up with everything tomorrow, I could build tomorrow. If it takes 6 months, then it takes six months.

 

[lehtv]

Please answer all the questions in the sticky: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=80121

 

[mfenn]

I agree with lehtv. In the meantime my main comment is that "quiet," "90 ambient," and "GTX 580" don't really go together.

Also, you are going to be spending a lot more money up front trying to make a gaming machine last for 4 years. IMHO it's better to get a more moderate system now and upgrade the GPU (and maybe the RAM) 2 years down the line.

 

[coremortality]

I agree with lehtv. In the meantime my main comment is that "quiet," "90 ambient," and "GTX 580" don't really go together.

Also, you are going to be spending a lot more money up front trying to make a gaming machine last for 4 years. IMHO it's better to get a more moderate system now and upgrade the GPU (and maybe the RAM) 2 years down the line.

Edited my first post.

Thank you for the heads up about the GTX 580. I wasn't aware that it is know for having heat issues.

 

[mfenn]

Unlimited budget. I'm looking to achieve some specific goals.

Uses:
- Gaming
- Game Level Design (Hobby)
- Family Use (photography, photo editing, home videos editing, etc.)

Goals:
- Quiet
- Reliable/Stable
- Semi-Future Proof (Silly but I just don't want to upgrade again for another 4 years at least)

Sounds good. I recommend a Dell Precision T7500 with dual X5675s, 48GB of RAM, two 256GB SAS SSDs in RAID 0 behind a PERC hardware raid controller, Quadro 5000's in SLI, and 4 years NBD onsite service.

The Precision line are very well-engineered machines that meet your quietness and stability goals. The machine is about as "future-proof" as you can make it and the 4 year NBD onsite warranty ensures that you will never be down for more than a day or so within the next 4 years. It will also handle your given tasks with aplomb. Total should run about $15,000 list, but in my experience you can get Dell to knock 30% off the top very easily.

Now, this doesn't take into account backup and mass storage, for that I recommend the Drobo FS NAS. The 10TB version is only about another $1750.

 

[coremortality]

Sounds good. I recommend a Dell Precision T7500 with dual X5675s, 48GB of RAM, two 256GB SAS SSDs in RAID 0 behind a PERC hardware raid controller, Quadro 5000's in SLI, and 4 years NBD onsite service.

The Precision line are very well-engineered machines that meet your quietness and stability goals. The machine is about as "future-proof" as you can make it and the 4 year NBD onsite warranty ensures that you will never be down for more than a day or so within the next 4 years. It will also handle your given tasks with aplomb. Total should run about $15,000 list, but in my experience you can get Dell to knock 30% off the top very easily.

Now, this doesn't take into account backup and mass storage, for that I recommend the Drobo FS NAS. The 10TB version is only about another $1750.

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

So this is what I've spec'ed out so far:
CPU Cooling - Noctua NH-U12P (Looked at the U14 but I'm concerned about it's size and ram clearance.)
You can also consider Corsair H100, a bit better with fans on full.

CPU - ??? (I'm guessing I'll end up going with an i7 IB processor but I don't know what models will be available or their differences)
Depending on your budget, go with either I7 3770k )socket 1155 or I7 3930k 6 core socket 2011, if money is enough then the 6 core will really help with 3D work.

GPU - ??? (Debating between buying a GTX 580 now or waiting a few more weeks for a GTX 680)
GTX 680. Period.

DVD - Lite-On iHAS424-98
No idea, try to get a blu ray if you need one

Case - Antec P280
I like Coolermaster cases, but each his own.

PSU - Corsair 750W CMPSU-750AX
Get a Get a Corsair H series or Seasonic silver or above. 750 is good enough for 1.5-2.5+ years with overclocking, for a single gpu at least.


Mobo - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H
For better overclocking you might want to look at Asus V Pro or even Asus V Dlx but that is a personal choice. Gigabyte is very very good as well.


RAM - Corsair 32GB 4x8GB CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10
Unless you immediately need 32 GB RAM I would say buy 16 GB and upgrade after 6-18 month once 32gb ram becomes cheaper. 32gb isn't worth it for most people atm, so you need to take the call here.


HDD - Samsung 830 Series 256GB MZ-7PC256B/WW

Pretty good choice.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

I just read that your budget is unlimited, in that case

i7 3960X
680 OC
32gb DDR3 1866-2400+ CAS 9 or less
Asus Rampage board Extreme
Seasonic X1250 (you have no budget man )
Lian Li case
2 x 480 GB SSDs along with lots of HDDs

 

[DSF]

I just read that your budget is unlimited, in that case

Just because a person has "unlimited" money doesn't mean they want to waste it on parts with relatively little justification for the expense.

480GB SSDs are $500+ (some as high as $1500 on Newegg). That's really poor advice to be giving someone for a gaming machine. The motherboard is way more expensive than he needs. $300+ for a motherboard is almost never justified, especially when there are good options in the $100-175 range, even for an enthusiast system.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

There are virtually no options below $200 for 2011 socket. With this budget there is no harm in stick to Asus ATX Pro and above, and the cheapest is like $250-300 or so.

 

[coremortality]

Thank's for the feedback.

So this is what I've spec'ed out so far:
CPU Cooling - Noctua NH-U12P (Looked at the U14 but I'm concerned about it's size and ram clearance.)
You can also consider Corsair H100, a bit better with fans on full.

CPU - ??? (I'm guessing I'll end up going with an i7 IB processor but I don't know what models will be available or their differences)
Depending on your budget, go with either I7 3770k )socket 1155 or I7 3930k 6 core socket 2011, if money is enough then the 6 core will really help with 3D work.

GPU - ??? (Debating between buying a GTX 580 now or waiting a few more weeks for a GTX 680)
GTX 680. Period.

DVD - Lite-On iHAS424-98
No idea, try to get a blu ray if you need one

Case - Antec P280
I like Coolermaster cases, but each his own.

PSU - Corsair 750W CMPSU-750AX
Get a Get a Corsair H series or Seasonic silver or above. 750 is good enough for 1.5-2.5+ years with overclocking, for a single gpu at least.


Mobo - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H
For better overclocking you might want to look at Asus V Pro or even Asus V Dlx but that is a personal choice. Gigabyte is very very good as well.


RAM - Corsair 32GB 4x8GB CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10
Unless you immediately need 32 GB RAM I would say buy 16 GB and upgrade after 6-18 month once 32gb ram becomes cheaper. 32gb isn't worth it for most people atm, so you need to take the call here.


HDD - Samsung 830 Series 256GB MZ-7PC256B/WW

Pretty good choice.

I did look at the H100 but watercooling, and 2 and 4 year old kids don't exactly mix. It's amazing what they manage to get into.

The 3930K is the Sandy Bridge processor correct? I have no plans to OC so if the performance between the 3770 and the 3930 is negligible then I'm fine waiting for the 3770. While I understand that IB isn't as nice as SB from an overclocking standpoint, it is adding nice features (USB 3, PCI Ex 3, cooler chip, etc.)

How are coolermaster cases for noise suppression/acoustics? My primary reason for going with the P280 is its acoustic properties and space but if there are comparable cases from other manufacturers I'm definitely interested. I did toy with the Corsair 550D. I currently have a P180 and while it's a great case, it's already a little too tight space wise.

Isn't the AX a better PSU than the HX? Gold vs Silver and all? PSUs is the area I know the least about so I can't really say but from looking at the specs there doesn't appear to be much difference between the two.

No plans to OC so I'll stick with the Gigabyte then.

I don't 'need' 32 GB of ram but I see no reason to not max out my ram at the moment. It mostly means less work in the future.

I just read that your budget is unlimited, in that case

i7 3960X
680 OC
32gb DDR3 1866-2400+ CAS 9 or less
Asus Rampage board Extreme
Seasonic X1250 (you have no budget man )
Lian Li case
2 x 480 GB SSDs along with lots of HDDs

Just because a person has "unlimited" money doesn't mean they want to waste it on parts with relatively little justification for the expense.

480GB SSDs are $500+ (some as high as $1500 on Newegg). That's really poor advice to be giving someone for a gaming machine. The motherboard is way more expensive than he needs. $300+ for a motherboard is almost never justified, especially when there are good options in the $100-175 range, even for an enthusiast system.

What DSF said. I may have an unlimited budget but that doesn't mean I'm going to waste money on parts geared towards something I have no interest and/or plans to fully utilize (OCing)

The SSD is going to be used as the boot/application drive so there is no reason for a drive greater than 240GB. I have four 640GB HDDs for data storage and if extra performance is needed with those there is always the option of Intel SRT

I can't see any reason to get a PSU with a greater wattage than 750 when I'm not going to be overclocking.

 

[coremortality]

Thank's for the feedback.

I did look at the H100 but watercooling, and 2 and 4 year old kids don't exactly mix. It's amazing what they manage to get into.

I guess I've got a lot to catch up on. Five years ago when I built my last system there were no out of the box water cooling systems that were self contained and all internally mounted to the case. You almost had to have external components such as a reservoir. A colleague at work just spent an hour raving about how nice the H100 is and another mentioned that his current setup is the H70 with different fans.

Additional things to consider I guess.

 

[mfenn]

What DSF said. I may have an unlimited budget but that doesn't mean I'm going to waste money on parts geared towards something I have no interest and/or plans to fully utilize (OCing)

The thing is, all price/performance ratios are relative. When you say "unlimited budget" that gives us no frame of reference for what you consider reasonable. Your stated goals can accomplished in a $1000 machine, $2000 machine, or $3000 machine. Obviously, the $3000 machine would be better, but it wouldn't be 3 times better. Whether or not that is "worth it" to you depends on your overall budget tolerance. My first post was an attempt to illustrate my point via an extreme case.

 

[coremortality]

The thing is, all price/performance ratios are relative. When you say "unlimited budget" that gives us no frame of reference for what you consider reasonable. Your stated goals can accomplished in a $1000 machine, $2000 machine, or $3000 machine. Obviously, the $3000 machine would be better, but it wouldn't be 3 times better. Whether or not that is "worth it" to you depends on your overall budget tolerance. My first post was an attempt to illustrate my point via an extreme case.

I would understand what you are trying to convey if my original post hadn’t included a good amount of detail regarding the hardware I am looking at and considering. What was in my original post should be more than sufficient information to make a judgment call on what I might consider reasonable. Instead you felt the need to illustrate a point and ignore the valid information provided. Frankly, my opinion is that your post was an effort to troll.

I did find the information regarding the GTX 580 useful though, thank you. The heat issues were not something that was coming up in the quick cursory searches that I was looking at regarding currently available graphics cards.

 

[mfenn]

I would understand what you are trying to convey if my original post hadn’t included a good amount of detail regarding the hardware I am looking at and considering. What was in my original post should be more than sufficient information to make a judgment call on what I might consider reasonable. Instead you felt the need to illustrate a point and ignore the valid information provided. Frankly, my opinion is that your post was an effort to troll.

I did find the information regarding the GTX 580 useful though, thank you. The heat issues were not something that was coming up in the quick cursory searches that I was looking at regarding currently available graphics cards.

LOL, if I was trolling, you'd know. Was I being deliberately obtuse? Yeah probably, but that's a far cry from "trolling".

I most certainly did not ignore the information you provided. I specifically mentioned quite a few items in your post. Your requirements are vague enough such that it is hard to determine whether or not the high-end machine that you have specified is really warranted. Some questions that come to mind:

- What games do you play?
- What detail levels and framerates are you comfortable with?
- What tools do you use for game level design?
- What is the proportion of the three main uses given above?
- How much do you pay for electricity (this will determine whether or not it is worth it to just run the AC instead of buying super high-end cooling)?
- What do you consider to be reliable (i.e. how many nines of uptime)?
- Can you quantify "quiet" (target noise level in decibels would be great)?
- What is the motivating factor behind not wanting to upgrade for 4 years? Platform stability concerns? Labor time? Cost?

 

[coremortality]

LOL, if I was trolling, you'd know.

I most certainly did not ignore the information you provided. I specifically mentioned quite a few items in your post. Your requirements are vague enough such that it is hard to determine whether or not the high-end machine that you have specified is really warranted. Some questions that come to mind:

- What games do you play?
- What detail levels and framerates are you comfortable with?
- What tools do you use for game level design?
- What is the proportion of the three main uses given above?
- How much do you pay for electricity (this will determine whether or not it is worth it to just run the AC instead of buying super high-end cooling)?
- What do you consider to be reliable (i.e. how many nines of uptime)?
- Can you quantify "quiet" (target noise level in decibels would be great)?
- What is the motivating factor behind not wanting to upgrade for 4 years? Platform stability concerns? Labor time? Cost?

- What games do you play?
Crysis 2, Batman: AC, SC 2, TF2, plan on D3, ME3, Tribes Ascend, Rage

- What detail levels and framerates are you comfortable with?
I used to try to play at the maximum detail levels without causing the frame rate to dip below around 40. Having it look good is more important to me than having insane FPS. That isn't really possible currently due to the age of my system however that's my goal.

- What tools do you use for game level design?
Hammer and Source SDK, UnrealEd

- What is the proportion of the three main uses given above?
Gaming is probably 40%, Family use another 40% and the level design stuff is 20%

- How much do you pay for electricity (this will determine whether or not it is worth it to just run the AC instead of buying super high-end cooling)?
Price of electricty isn't an issue as I work for a local utility so I receive a significant discount on the bill. The wall/windows cooling units only keep the temperature marginally cooler than outside.

- What do you consider to be reliable (i.e. how many nines of uptime)?
95% uptime is fine which would be about a day and a half per month or 18 days out of the year. I'm looking to avoid severe failure due to shoddy parts. For example, as I've started researching SSDs I'm learning that the Sandforce controllers can't be classified as being terribly reliable when compared to traditional HDDs.

- Can you quantify "quiet" (target noise level in decibels would be great)?
My current system is in a Antec P180 and I replaced all fans with Scythe 1200rpm Slip Stream fans. They're rated at around 25 dB though I've never actually measured them. The current system is quiet enough that unless you're sitting within 3 ft you can't tell if it's on.

- What is the motivating factor behind not wanting to upgrade for 4 years? Platform stability concerns? Labor time? Cost?
Motivating factor is probably lack of will. I work in IT so while I'm just picky enough not trust Dell or HP and want to build my own machine, I don't want to build a new system every year. I have no desire to chase the latest and greatest technology products every year or even every other year any more. My last system was built 5 years ago with a ram and storage upgrade two years ago.

 

[Net]

i bought the antec 300 case first then i bought the antec P182 with plans to return the antec 300.

it was considerably hotter so i returned the antec p182 and kept the antec 300. i've come to love the antec 300. my system runs very cool.

if i was going to do it again and I was concerned about noise then I would:

1. buy a fanless psu
2. buy self enclosed water cooling system for the cpu. i'd have to read reviews to see which is quieter, i.e. cosair h70 or noctua d14
3. one exhaust fan, quietest one out there. low rpm and big 120mm or even better 140mm
4. solid state drive
5. no chipset fan, no other fans at all other than the one exhaust and the cpu.
6. quiet graphics card(s). i've had good performance while still quiet using an sli gtx 460 brand: gigabyte.

then for the case i would get the one that is the most open. i've been thinking about this lately and thought it would be nice to have an all mesh case.

 

[mfenn]

- What games do you play?
Crysis 2, Batman: AC, SC 2, TF2, plan on D3, ME3, Tribes Ascend, Rage

- What detail levels and framerates are you comfortable with?
I used to try to play at the maximum detail levels without causing the frame rate to dip below around 40. Having it look good is more important to me than having insane FPS. That isn't really possible currently due to the age of my system however that's my goal.

- What tools do you use for game level design?
Hammer and Source SDK, UnrealEd

- What is the proportion of the three main uses given above?
Gaming is probably 40%, Family use another 40% and the level design stuff is 20%

- How much do you pay for electricity (this will determine whether or not it is worth it to just run the AC instead of buying super high-end cooling)?
Price of electricty isn't an issue as I work for a local utility so I receive a significant discount on the bill. The wall/windows cooling units only keep the temperature marginally cooler than outside.

- What do you consider to be reliable (i.e. how many nines of uptime)?
95% uptime is fine which would be about a day and a half per month or 18 days out of the year. I'm looking to avoid severe failure due to shoddy parts. For example, as I've started researching SSDs I'm learning that the Sandforce controllers can't be classified as being terribly reliable when compared to traditional HDDs.

- Can you quantify "quiet" (target noise level in decibels would be great)?
My current system is in a Antec P180 and I replaced all fans with Scythe 1200rpm Slip Stream fans. They're rated at around 25 dB though I've never actually measured them. The current system is quiet enough that unless you're sitting within 3 ft you can't tell if it's on.

- What is the motivating factor behind not wanting to upgrade for 4 years? Platform stability concerns? Labor time? Cost?
Motivating factor is probably lack of will. I work in IT so while I'm just picky enough not trust Dell or HP and want to build my own machine, I don't want to build a new system every year. I have no desire to chase the latest and greatest technology products every year or even every other year any more. My last system was built 5 years ago with a ram and storage upgrade two years ago.

Thank you for your detailed answers, they are very helpful. Based on those, I'd say that what you have spec'ed out is significantly overkill except in the graphics department.

The only currently available graphics system that has a hope of meeting your performance requirements over 4 years would be a high-end SLI/Crossfire setup. Unfortunately, those will severely exceed your noise requirements unless you go custom water, which you've said is not an option. With that in mind, how would you like to proceed?

 

[coremortality]

Thank you for your detailed answers, they are very helpful. Based on those, I'd say that what you have spec'ed out is significantly overkill except in the graphics department.

The only currently available graphics system that has a hope of meeting your performance requirements over 4 years would be a high-end SLI/Crossfire setup. Unfortunately, those will severely exceed your noise requirements unless you go custom water, which you've said is not an option. With that in mind, how would you like to proceed?

Thanks for the feedback! The noise requirement trumps the performance for me so I'll stick with a single card for the time being and when I run into an issue with game performance in the future I'll address it at that point.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for the feedback! The noise requirement trumps the performance for me so I'll stick with a single card for the time being and when I run into an issue with game performance in the future I'll address it at that point.

With that in mind, I'd say that a dual fan 7870 like this Sapphire would be a good balance of power/longevity and noise.

The a lot of the rest can be significantly cut down without impacting your performance. For example:
- CPU: An i5 is fine unless you plan to do lots of transcoding
- Mobo: Given that you're not going to be going dual-GPU, you can easily go with a less expensive board like the GA-Z77-D3H
- PSU: An S12II at 1/2 the price will get you 90% of the performance and efficiency of the AX and still have more than enough power.
- RAM: Unless you know absolutely for a fact that your models require 32GB of RAM, go with 8GB or 16GB and save a bunch of money
- SSD : If you plan to keep all the games you listed installed simultaneously, I can see going for 256GB. Otherwise, the 128GB version is likely to be enough.

 

[Topweasel]

The 3930K is the Sandy Bridge processor correct? I have no plans to OC so if the performance between the 3770 and the 3930 is negligible then I'm fine waiting for the 3770. While I understand that IB isn't as nice as SB from an overclocking standpoint, it is adding nice features (USB 3, PCI Ex 3, cooler chip, etc.)

IB actually runs pretty hot, coolers are having a hard time due to even though drawing less power dissipating that heat through a smaller contact area.

3930k Isn't an upgrade to the 3770 in most circumstances. But any application or enviroment that would utilize the 5th and 6th core, you will see a bigger difference between that then you would the slight per core upgrade and slightly increased clocks of the IB chip. Also outside RST (which they feel isn't needed for a pure performance workstation environment)m SB-E and X79 support all of those features, while allowing for more memory.

As for Coolermaster. The HAF X is pretty quiet, but its because it uses incredibly large fans for intake and exhaust that obviously don't need to spin as fast. It won't do anything to dampen any other fans or hardware like P280 would. It just doesn't add much more noise to whatever solution is inside it. I think that would apply to most of their cases outside the original Cosmos line. The Cosmos 2 might have more sound dampening characteristics, but also more cooling options and fans, which probably increase sound.

 

[coremortality]

- RAM: Unless you know absolutely for a fact that your models require 32GB of RAM, go with 8GB or 16GB and save a bunch of money

How's the quality of the G.SKILL Ares? More specifically this.

 

[lehtv]

G.Skill quality is always good. You can also get the Ripjaws X kit which is identical in price and specs, but Ares is lower profile and newer, if that matters.

But I'd doubt the need for 16GB RAM, so I'd buy 2x4GB first and expand on that if needed. 2x4GB kits are better $/GB.

 

[mfenn]

How's the quality of the G.SKILL Ares? More specifically this.

It's good, but really any RAM from a reputable vendor (non-exhaustive list: G.Skill, Mushkin, Corsair, Crucial) with a given set of timings is going to be good quality and perform the same. I agree with lehtv that 4GB DIMMs are much better cost per gig and will still allow you to go to 16GB in the future.