Repubs to filibuster continuing resolution and debt limit increase bill but they say they want a debt limit increase too

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
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Ignorance is putting it mildly. Many serious economists think it would be catastrophic for the U.S. to intentionally damage its own creditworthiness. The moron isn't even worth engaging with seriously; it's fairly obvious he's one of those fiscal conservatards who considers any social spending on the poor as bad gubment spending. Corporate welfare OTOH is "good" deficit spending of course.

I wouldn't put it past the GQP to push us to the brink of default, and even pass the line. If it happens next month, they'll blame it on Joe Biden since he's putatively in charge. Whether congressional Republicans hate America is debatable, but there's little doubt they hate a lot of Americans.
Someone criticizing US deficits by saying we have to ‘live within our means’ is someone who is either woefully ignorant or intentionally misleading. There is no other answer.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,849
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Someone criticizing US deficits by saying we have to ‘live within our means’ is someone who is either woefully ignorant or intentionally misleading. There is no other answer.
Woefully ignorant fits the bill, but it's well beyond "not knowing what you don't know" (which would describe most Americans on many subjects). In this case, he believes utter bullshit such as defaulting on federal debt is a nothingburger. Along similar lines, he said in another thread that U.S. corporate tax receipts are too high. Like I said, standard fiscal conservatard talking points that only apply to social spending on the lower class, but not to corporate welfare.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
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That’s just pure ignorance on your part. Raising the debt ceiling has zero to do with our future spending. It has to do with the bills that are already due. Not paying those will put us in an even weaker global position.


I mean, I guess if you hate America, defaulting makes sense
That poster had no problem killing his fellow citizens so I guess the question of his love of country is already answered.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,040
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This is weird - I genuinely don't understand the play here. If Republicans filibuster the debt limit increase there are 3 possible outcomes I see, all of which seem bad for them.

All they care about is the President. They want to make Biden look bad by having turmoil and collapse under Biden's watch.

Frankly, it worked for Clinton because Clinton was a skilled orator. He had charisma. Biden is a wet noodle. The Republican's causing this should still pay a price, but don't count on it having quite the same impact without youthful and energetic leaders to hammer them with it. Perhaps social media can help replace our fossilized leadership.
 

Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,411
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Sept. 30 is the deadline to continue funding federal agencies.
In late October or early November, the U.S. Treasury will run out of money to pay its obligations and will default.

Dems proposed a bill to continue the Govt and increase the debt limit.
Repubs says they will fillibuster.


1) What Dems should do is also play hardball by putting the bill on the Senate floor on Sept 30.
Let the Repubs filibuster and let all Americans see they are the ones that caused all non-essential govt employees go on furlough.

It worked for Bill Clinton in the 1990s.
Americans blamed the Repubs for the govt shutdown.
and im shocked the Dems arent even considering this.

2) Repubs: Lets see how STUPID the avg American is.
Repubs say they want a debt limit increase but they're going to filibuster the Dem bill.

Can the American people see through the Repub double speak and blame the Repubs?

That was the 1990's. America was in a different time, state of economy, and was facing different issues at hand. Right now we are getting out of a COVID economic downturn, while in the 90's we were in a dot com rise and economic rise. The US dollar was very strong back then, in fact when the Euro was undergoing beta testing back then, many economists were hypothesizing the Euro might be less valuable than even the US Dollar. Green energy and environment was not as big as a deal as it was back then. Many of the funding programs being implemented back in the 1990's were mostly for technological advancements and replacing the old technology that the US government was still using, the later which is important the US could still work without for some amount of time.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
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Can you explain why? Do you realize how many financial instruments are tied to treasuries?



This shows you do not understand how government debt works. You do realize household debt and US government debt have essentially nothing to do with one another, right?

We been spending above our means for long time. Only during 1 year during Bill Clinton did we have balance budget and actually had a profit. In fact there was i believe 10 years plan to pay off the debt, obviously it wasn't followed. We spending money on foreign aid, on social welfare etc. It's time to cut that all off, we spend only that money that we receive in current taxes.

That’s just pure ignorance on your part. Raising the debt ceiling has zero to do with our future spending. It has to do with the bills that are already due. Not paying those will put us in an even weaker global position.


I mean, I guess if you hate America, defaulting makes sense
Yes and we can pay our past bills if we cut our spending. Which means no more social security, no more medicare, no more medicaid, cut federal government by 50-60% if not more. No more foreign financial aid to other countries. We need to learn to live without our means and not keep taking out loans which is what basically we are doing now.
 
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gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
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All they care about is the President. They want to make Biden look bad by having turmoil and collapse under Biden's watch.

Frankly, it worked for Clinton because Clinton was a skilled orator. He had charisma. Biden is a wet noodle. The Republican's causing this should still pay a price, but don't count on it having quite the same impact without youthful and energetic leaders to hammer them with it. Perhaps social media can help replace our fossilized leadership.

I think it's much more insidious than just trying to smear Biden (already working if you look at polls), I wonder if they are trying to bring about some sort of major societal collapse so that "only I can fix it" can be ushered in in true strongman fashion.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
We been spending above our means for long time. Only during 1 year during Bill Clinton did we have balance budget and actually had a profit. In fact there was i believe 10 years plan to pay off the debt, obviously it wasn't followed. We spending money on foreign aid, on social welfare etc. It's time to cut that all off, we spend only that money that we receive in current taxes.


Yes and we can pay our past bills if we cut our spending. Which means no more social security, no more medicare, no more medicaid, cut federal government by 50-60% if not more. No more foreign financial aid to other countries. We need to learn to live without our means and not keep taking out loans which is what basically we are doing now.

What is it about stupid people and their desire to double down on stupid?

Show us how smart you are on and provide us with not only the savings we’d gain from cutting the programs you’ve mentioned but also what the consequences of ending those programs would be. Hell, just to make it easier for you, just take two, any two of the ones you’ve listed and provide us with that information.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
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We been spending above our means for long time. Only during 1 year during Bill Clinton did we have balance budget and actually had a profit. In fact there was i believe 10 years plan to pay off the debt, obviously it wasn't followed. We spending money on foreign aid, on social welfare etc. It's time to cut that all off, we spend only that money that we receive in current taxes.
Why? Why would that make the country better off? Be specific.

Yes and we can pay our past bills if we cut our spending. Which means no more social security, no more medicare, no more medicaid, cut federal government by 50-60% if not more. No more foreign financial aid to other countries. We need to learn to live without our means and not keep taking out loans which is what basically we are doing now.
So your suggestion is to eliminate the deficit and pay off the national debt? What would be gained by this. Again, please be as specific as possible.

These are genuine questions - I really want to know what you think doing what you want will lead to.
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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This Biden agenda along with the debit thing will define how 2022 goes. And as they say, the squeaky wheel gets all the oil. Looking at the divisions, lets take masks for example. When I see people protesting schools and protesting mask mandates I see a very small minority of protestors. I believe that we have a lot more Americans in favor of safe schools and mask mandates than the media would have you believe. In the Nixon era they were called THE SILENT MAJORITY.

Yes, I believe we have a great silent majority who support masks mandates, who support vaccines mandates, who still have the ability to think it thru logically, and who live in the real world rather than a world of conspiracy. Despite everything and that includes Afghanistan, I think 2022 will be a very good year for democrats in the house and in the senate. And wouldn't it be wonderful to no longer have to focus on Joe Manchin or that other traitorous democrat female. Democrats gain in the 2022 election, Joe Manchin is pushed aside because who cares what the hell Manchin thinks, and the Biden agenda becomes reality for the middle class. I see the rewards for fighting covid and for promoting the middle class agenda as a huge win for democrats come 2022. That silent majority will get us through.
When republicans are through with their re-districting/ gerrymandering, they can win back the House easily. Senate I have no idea, but the House will be a huge challenge for the Dems to hang on to.
 
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weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
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Why? Why would that make the country better off? Be specific.


So your suggestion is to eliminate the deficit and pay off the national debt? What would be gained by this. Again, please be as specific as possible.

These are genuine questions - I really want to know what you think doing what you want will lead to.
Gain would be ability to lower taxes, put more money in to workers paycheck. Ultimately it's tax payers money, they should be able to do with it as they want to.
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
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Gain would be ability to lower taxes, put more money in to workers paycheck. Ultimately it's tax payers money, they should be able to do with it as they want to.

it would devalue the dollar, kick the shit out of the markets and many Americans retirement plans, destroy millions of jobs, and mortgage rates would spike for starters. last i checked, taxpayers will be paying that price.

also, it isn't tax payers money, it's debt.
 
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weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
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it would devalue the dollar, kick the shit out of the markets and many Americans retirement plans, destroy millions of jobs, and mortgage rates would spike for starters. last i checked, taxpayers will be paying that price.

also, it isn't tax payers money, it's debt.
Nothing will happen to the market. Lots of talk which will not happen. I am looking forward to US defaulting so you are able to see with your own eyes that world will not end next day.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,722
3,130
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Nothing will happen to the market. Lots of talk which will not happen. I am looking forward to US defaulting so you are able to see with your own eyes that world will not end next day.

who said the world would end? that's just ridiculous.

btw, the answer to that question is YOU. you are the only person in this thread that said the world will end.

what you are asking for and suggesting would be a good thing, would be the exact opposite. the vast majority of Americans will be seriously harmed if we default on our debt.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
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who said the world would end? that's just ridiculous.

btw, the answer to that question is YOU. you are the only person in this thread that said the world will end.

what you are asking for and suggesting would be a good thing, would be the exact opposite. the vast majority of Americans will be seriously harmed if we default on our debt.

The guy is dumber than a bag of rocks. I'll give him this though, he's filled in nicely for some0nemind1.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Gain would be ability to lower taxes, put more money in to workers paycheck. Ultimately it's tax payers money, they should be able to do with it as they want to.
No, if anything there would be less money in a worker’s paycheck as the government would no longer be taking out new debt and would in fact be paying it off under your plan.

Try again?
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
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Nothing will happen to the market. Lots of talk which will not happen. I am looking forward to US defaulting so you are able to see with your own eyes that world will not end next day.
Nothing would happen to the market? First, there is about $20 trillion in outstanding US debt that would be dramatically less valuable overnight. The idea that this would not affect the market is…obviously wrong.

Second, after a U.S. default treasury yields would certainly significantly rise as their safety is no longer assured. Things such as mortgage rates which are strongly influenced by treasury yields would skyrocket. Other types of debt like student loans and credit card rates would also increase.

Can you explain why this would have no effect on the market? You can say it’s because you’re making things up again like when you made up new legal definitions of words to suit your opinion before.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
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Nothing will happen to the market. Lots of talk which will not happen. I am looking forward to US defaulting so you are able to see with your own eyes that world will not end next day.

Do you even realize how much international business uses the US dollar as the default world currency?


Would you rather all international businesses switch to using the Euro or if the Chinese were to get their way the Chinese Yuan as default currency?


How much value do you think the US dollar would lose if we default on our debt?
 
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HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
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My dream scenario that will never, ever happen, but would satisfy a lot of people across the spectrum, and would eventually lead to balanced budgets without inflicting whiplash on government programs:

Set the new debt ceiling at $100T, but do it with a constitutional amendment so another amendment would be necessary to raise the debt ceiling past that point.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,596
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Nothing will happen to the market. Lots of talk which will not happen. I am looking forward to US defaulting so you are able to see with your own eyes that world will not end next day.

If someone seeks to borrow money from you, logically you would consider their ability to repay you. A stable government seeking to borrow money from you is about the best guarantee of repayment you can get, and you make money from the interest to fund whatever projects you have planned.

Now imagine what happens to creditors with billions of dollars' worth of projects around the world if a stable government that owes them tonnes of money decides one day to say "nah".

Then imagine what happens to that government when it can't borrow money any more because its reputation for repayment is shot.

Your idea for a government to 'live within its means' isn't an inherently bad one, but it's far too simplistic and doesn't fit the needs of a 'developed' country that ought to be in a perpetual state of renewal (and growth in some respects).

The US defaulting would have a revolutionary effect on the US and likely the entire world. Revolutions are extremely ugly but sometimes necessary, and "going debt-free" is neither a sufficient reason nor is it a guaranteed outcome as a developed nation going debt-free would require a top-to-bottom change of plan that is so drastic that it can neither predict the outcome based on known models, nor can the variables it would rely on could be predicted to survive or come about. The idea of the US undergoing such a revolution after the US presenting itself with so many examples of how badly "nation-building" has worked out for it is completely absurd.

Also, revolutions require lots of money. Oh wait, defaulting just shot that plan in the foot.