Don't worry about it bud, all this crap about fiscal problems are just utter bullshit. The checkbook still has plenty of checks left in it so we can't possibly be out of money.
Don't worry about it bud, all this crap about fiscal problems are just utter bullshit. The checkbook still has plenty of checks left in it so we can't possibly be out of money.
According to Spidey, it's not deficit spending if you reduce your revenue.
But hey, he's the guy who brags about his leech wife and her bloated government salary and pension.
Republicans no longer do anything to hide how much they hate the country and it's working that dumb Americans love them more than ever as they are poised to elect someone like Palin to the Oval Office.
Londo_Jowo
Lifer
And in one fell swoop Obama gets the stimulus he wanted AND takes over the tax debate.
I love how Democrats and Republicans underestimate how smart and steady this President is.
I love how Democrats and Republicans underestimate how smart and steady this President is.
Attic
Diamond Member
- Jan 9, 2010
- 4,282
- 2
- 76
A lot of poeple argue a different angle. The question should be asked a few times, "whose money is it? and why?" I know where you stand.
If you had planned for 100k income from your job for 2011 to break even with planned expenses but found out you were going to be making 80k that year (pick a reason), you would either cut your spending or pick up some debt while continuing with planned expenses.
The government had based a budget planned on tax rates going up, and some folks are going with the story that this is going to add to debt as opposed to arguing the necesity of balancing spending based on revenue levels.
The tax cuts will have the effect of adding to deficit (because spending cuts aren't taking place), but calling it spending, or saying it will cost the country XXX amount is innacurate and a half truth at best. To argue that point you have to believe the money was the governements in the first place and that they are giving money back by extending the tax cuts. Frankly that's a bit hard to swallow for anyone who has legitamely worked for a living (Read: not looking at government employees). I believe you have to hold the government more responsible with spending than to let them get away with calling tax cuts a "cost" to the government coffers.
If it wasn't your money how would you treat it? Likely a bit different than your own. If you look at how many Americans have debt issues it shouldn't be too suprising to see how the government has made the same missteps with how they budget themselves. They can charge anything they want almost at anytime. I don't think many individuals or groups would do a good job in that situation.
As a nation we don't need to get rid of our entire debt, we need to be responsible with our debt. There is a big difference. Debt can be devastating, but it can also be good if it is managed in a way to show responsiblity.
I can see how what Obama did with this bill was responsible with our debt, i'm not saying I know whether it was or not. We don't need to pay off the entire balance this year, we just need to manage debt better in the future.
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Takes over the tax debate? Seriously? He'll be arguing for higher taxes in an election year. HIS re-election year!
Nope, here's what's going to happen. 1) If the economy recovers, the Repubs will take credit for "forcing the President to change course" and the tax cuts will need to be continued further to "ensure the recovery has finally taken hold"; or 2) If the economy tanks further, the Repubs will blame the Dems for the massive deficits the country incurred during the first 2 years of his Presidency + the continued malaise over the remainder of his term. He's still the President, so he will be the face that gets blamed. Pelosi and Reid will also still be around to blame as well.
So no Moose, actually he's tactically stupid or naive politically if you ask me. And it scares me that this ass clown actually has to play strategic poker over national security issues with someone as cunning as Putin of Russia. Scary as all hell.
He's a one termer -- stick a fork in him. Unless the Repubs do something stupid like nominate Palin. Then perhaps he's got a chance.
manimal
Lifer
- Mar 30, 2007
- 13,560
- 8
- 0
Like the guy that looked into his heart and said he was a good man? If you choose to believe Barry is dumb or naive so you can sleep at night thats fine. You can disagree with him and dislike his positions but stupid is something he is not.
Its not surprising though since simple folk prefer simple leaders and simple half truths to keep them warm at night......
Abso-freakin-lutely and I would strongly encourage everyone against it to do the same.
Who knows - maybe this is finally something to get people to come together. One side hates tax cuts the other can't stand another unemployment benefits extension. Fractured elements of P&N unite against this monstrosity!
No - he just knows he doesn't need to know math. Math is for the guy who has the job down the road who has to actually deal with this mess
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
- 16,830
- 3
- 0
Are you being serious? I assume you mean because the tax deal increases the deficit, Obama sucks at math?
Did you know that we are in a recession?
Did you know that during a recession, the government has to increase deficit spending or else the recession gets worse?
Did you know that that is exactly what this deal does?
Your stupid little flip post is like going up to someone who just took out a mortgage and telling them they suck at math because they didn't pay zero dollars for the house and are in debt. No, that person does not suck at math. You're the one who sucks at common fucking sense.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 35,332
- 28,607
- 136
Finally; the Dems grew at least a little backbone.
AGAIN people, write your congressman and your 2 senators. Quick and easy.
Trying to figure out who would hurt more if the extension doesn't get passed. Funny thing is, because the rich have had their way for the past 10 yrs. and got a whole lot richer since, they can take the jerk on the expiration of the cuts with a smile while the middle class/poor get it right in the neck and suffer worse than they do now. On top of that, the rich can decide whether the jobless get a break or not and whether or not the middle class/poor get to keep their cut intact.
So it seems to me no matter what happens, the rich win out.
So it seems to me no matter what happens, the rich win out.
The Dems are playing a dangerous game of chicken here. If nothing gets passed before year end, the withholding amounts go way up on all paychecks. And even if they pass something retroactively, you still won't be getting that extra withholding money back until early in 2012 when you file your 2011 tax return. Nope, the Dems have more to lose here. All the Repubs have to do is continue to say take it or leave it, because the 'deal' likely gets worse when the Congress becomes way more conservative on Jan 1
Ha yea that worked real well the last time Repubs did that with Clinton. At least Clinton had a back bone and people blamed the R's.
In this case the Dems already put up a bill to save the tax breaks on all income up to 250k/200k. It was the republicans that voted it down.
IMO wait till the last day and let the Republicnas vote it down again if they think they will win that publicity contest.
Dems vote in favor of not raising taxs Republicans vote to have taxs go up, on record. I bet at least 10 R's switch real fast, esp the ones that will be up for election in 2 years or thinking about running for Prez.
That kind of logic will always screw the average person.
If the issue were child labor, or working 13 hours days in unsafe conditions, who could 'more afford the standoff' - the poor worker needing to eat or the owner?
It's a power conflict pure and simple - the rich demanding $70 billion more a year added right on the debt with the only reason 'just because they have the power to'.
The people need to show them 'who's boss' IMO as the majority.
Now, there is some question who IS boss, but it should be the large majority of American people.
Under Clinton the Republicans chose a showdown with Clinton where the government shut down. He didn't let them get their way, which was good.
They're already doing it again.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
You need to get you mind off $250,000. First of all it's a small increase even if it went up, trivial. Second vast majority of rich people dont have earned income they have dividends and capital gains. Reason the rich moved heaven and earth to keep breaks was dividends currently taxes @15% flat, was slated to go back to regular marginal rates.
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
- 16,830
- 3
- 0
This Economist article is right.
Fighting the tax cuts for the rich because they aren't very stimulative
wouldn't make sense, because it's not like Republicans (with their 41
vote majority) would allow that money to be used for extra middle class tax cuts, or spending.
They would block everything, the economy would get worse, and then Obama would take the blame
http://www5.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/12/fiscal_policy_1
Fighting the tax cuts for the rich because they aren't very stimulative
wouldn't make sense, because it's not like Republicans (with their 41
vote majority) would allow that money to be used for extra middle class tax cuts, or spending.
They would block everything, the economy would get worse, and then Obama would take the blame
http://www5.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/12/fiscal_policy_1
Oh really? Lets see, all of our debt on the short end of the curve (4 year average roll on ALL OF IT, existing AND new) during record low "interest rates" and we are increasing that debt at unprecedented levels while lowering revenue. When those rates return to historical norms, unless you want to argue that they won't, very soon our interest payments shoot the moon.
This year, not at some point in the future but right now, our revenue equals roughly our mandatory spending. What is our "mandatory" spending you ask? Well its just a few items in our budget. Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and interest on the debt and that is pretty much it. No DOD spending, no Dept. of Ed, Agriculture, Transportation, Corp of Engineers, and basically everything else the Fed spends money on. All of that stuff had to be funded with borrowed money and we haven't even gotten to stimulus spending yet AND our interest payments are at record lows (actually lower than the Bush years even though we added a fuckton of debt).
Then we have the little issue of the recession. You see, we didn't actually "fix" anything we papered over it and pretended it went away. The bad loans are still out there, blatantly illegal activity is still being committed by the banks, the government is trying in vain to prop up housing prices at an artificially high rate, employment isn't coming back in any meaningful way anytime soon, people are making less and what they are making is worth less and the one tool the Fed has to combat the devaluing they can't use because it would cause the Feds budget to shoot the moon (see above, they are locked in to low interest rates or government costs to service debt goes way the fuck up real quick).
Yup, I think I am going to stick with my original "He (and "they") suck at math" statement.
It is amusing you used a mortgage for your analogy but you are just a little off. Allow me to fix it for you:
Its like saying they suck at math because they purchased a home with zero down and an interest only loan during a time of record increase in housing costs assuming that the house will continually rise in 10%+ in value every year.
They do suck at math, exponents are a bitch. You are familiar with exponents, right? What eventually happens when one side of an equation rises X% faster than the other side for a long period of time?
Isn't Obama like the quasi leader of the Dems or something of that nature? Regardless of this issue though, they still both suck.
Point well taken.
That makes me wonder if the many middle class/poor independents who voted repub this past election cycle actually understood that voting the repubs back in brings back and extends the Bush era ideology that was in many ways responsible for wrecking the economy that they're mad and frustrated about now.
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