Republicans pushing through Medicare Bill (of goods) without review.

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Apparently they want to suspend House Rules to push this bill through before anyone has had a chance to review it.
So like with one of the biggest expansions of government powers (patriot act), one of the biggest expansions of government spending will be voted on without a chance for those voting to read it. They introduced it today, and they want a vote on it today, not even giving the congress 3 days to review it. I was watching C-Span, and apparently the republicans are really looking out for taxpayers with this one. There is a provision that bars medicare from trying to negotiate lower prices from drug companies. So basically whatever those companies want, the taxpayer will have to pay.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Oh, I am sorry that there are too many threads on a $400B/year bill. That's only what, 20% of government spending.

 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
It's 400 billion over 10 years. Which, on a yearly basis if the numbers are true, is about 1.7%.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, I am sorry that there are too many threads on a $400B/year bill. That's only what, 20% of government spending.
even if it was $400 BILLION, GAZILLION DOLLARS A DAY, have a million threads is stupid.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, I am sorry that there are too many threads on a $400B/year bill. That's only what, 20% of government spending.
even if it was $400 BILLION, GAZILLION DOLLARS A DAY, have a million threads is stupid.
So don't read it. The other thread has to do with AARP, this thread has to do with how it's being through without being read.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Oh, I am sorry that there are too many threads on a $400B/year bill. That's only what, 20% of government spending.
even if it was $400 BILLION, GAZILLION DOLLARS A DAY, have a million threads is stupid.
So don't read it. The other thread has to do with AARP, this thread has to do with how it's being through without being read.
You are right. My post was uncalled for. Sorry.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,423
4,810
126
How can this be legal? How can a governing body properly function if it is not allowed to review what it is called to vote on?
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
How can this be legal? How can a governing body properly function if it is not allowed to review what it is called to vote on?
The American people didn't want checks and balances, which is why the elected (or whatever you call it) a GOP president and a GOP congress, at the time of a GOP supreme court.
So they aren't getting any checks an balances. Democracy in action.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Hopefully, the Senate will be more deliberate. McCain held a hearing today to talk about prescription drug costs. One of the provisions (allegedly) in the bill calls for a PROHIBITION against Medicare negotiating for lower drug costs. The VA and DOD currently negotiate but I imagine Big Pharma knows Medicare discounts would really hurt.

It is truly baffling how Republicans can talk about being fiscally responsible and market power while refusing to practice it with their legislation. There's little doubt that Medicare negotiating with drug companies would become a de facto price control regime but that's how markets work. When WalMart comes a knocking, suppliers know what time it is. If it's good enough for WalMart's billions why is not good enough for the federal government's MANY billions more?
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Hopefully, the Senate will be more deliberate. McCain held a hearing today to talk about prescription drug costs. One of the provisions (allegedly) in the bill calls for a PROHIBITION against Medicare negotiating for lower drug costs. The VA and DOD currently negotiate but I imagine Big Pharma knows Medicare discounts would really hurt.

It is truly baffling how Republicans can talk about being fiscally responsible and market power while refusing to practice it with their legislation. There's little doubt that Medicare negotiating with drug companies would become a de facto price control regime but that's how markets work. When WalMart comes a knocking, suppliers know what time it is. If it's good enough for WalMart's billions why is not good enough for the federal government's MANY billions more?
In Republican's mind, if I go to the store thinking "I am not going to spend more than $200 on a television" that is a pricecap.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: sandorski
How can this be legal? How can a governing body properly function if it is not allowed to review what it is called to vote on?
The American people didn't want checks and balances, which is why the elected (or whatever you call it) a GOP president and a GOP congress, at the time of a GOP supreme court.
So they aren't getting any checks an balances. Democracy in action.
Are you then suggesting that for the upcoming election, a GOP president should not be allowed?
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: sandorski
How can this be legal? How can a governing body properly function if it is not allowed to review what it is called to vote on?
The American people didn't want checks and balances, which is why the elected (or whatever you call it) a GOP president and a GOP congress, at the time of a GOP supreme court.
So they aren't getting any checks an balances. Democracy in action.
Are you then suggesting that for the upcoming election, a GOP president should not be allowed?
No, I am not. If the American people want to continue with no effective checks an balances, they should have an opportunity to do so.
Are you suggesting that we have an effective system of checks and balances when the opposition party does not even have an opportunity to read the bills they are asked to vote on?
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
No, Supertool, I am not. I did not suggest anything, I asked for clarification on your statement.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
It's funny, I've been seeing all these AARP ads lately supporting the GOP medicare bill. It strikes me as funny that they describe the bill as "...a good first step..." Haven't these oldsters ever heard of "get it right the first time?" Pffffft, greatest generation my ass. ;)
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
It's funny, I've been seeing all these AARP ads lately supporting the GOP medicare bill. It strikes me as funny that they describe the bill as "...a good first step..." Haven't these oldsters ever heard of "get it right the first time?" Pffffft, greatest generation my ass. ;)
What does AARP have to do with greatest generation? AARP looks out for AARP, not seniors.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
My Congressman, Richard Burr (Republican), has an ad extolling his two virtuous votes to add a drug benefit to Medicare. Of course, the add wasn't financed by his re-election campaign. A wonderful organization titled, United Seniors Association (USA).

Of course a google search reveals . . .
Description: A nonpartisan, nonprofit, public interest organization of conservative seniors dedicated to educating...
Nonpartisan organization of conservative seniors?


oops from Summer 2002
Drug Companies Appear to Have Given Seniors Group Nearly $10 Million
to Push Medicare Drug Bill Favored by Industry
United Seniors homepage

Democracy is clearly for sale in America . . . or more accurately . . . America is for sale. There's no point in talking about democracy anymore.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
FWIW - I don't support this bill. I think it is a HUGE mistake - just like I've held the belief that ANY prescription drug bill would be for the last 8+ years. The Democrats have been pushing for this for quite a while and now they are just pissed because they won't get credit for it so they whine and cry foul. 2 weeks ago the AARP was the held as the gold standard for old people by the Democrats...now all of a sudden it's the worst lobby group that exists(besides Oil;)). So maybe something good will come out of this - maybe the AARP will lose alot of it "power" in Washington :D

The politics of this is hilarious, but the bill no doubt sucks just as ANY drug bill would.

CkG
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
The drug bill is indeed a mistake but something must be done about inflationary pressure on drug costs. DOD and the VA were using collective bargaining b/c costs were increasing by double digits for several years. IMO, the first legislation should have been authorizing (hell demanding) that Medicare or CMS . . . whatever it's been renamed . . . to negotiate for lower prices for Medicare recipients. Naturally, most private insurance companies already negotiate rates to providers so I imagine it's only a matter of time before they insist that drug companies/pharmacies charge the same rate as Medicare.

Big Pharma calls that price controls. Republicans used to call it a free market where payers negotiate with providers . . . or in this case collective bargaining.

It is a shame that a wealthy country like the US favors corporate interests over the best interests of the people. GOP cheerleaders talk about seniors choosing between food and drugs but that's not a new development. Of course now there's a political dimension they can exploit it becomes a priority. Of course the AARP thing rocks considering they make more income from selling insurance and drug ads than they do from dues. AARP not only endorse the legislation but had advertisements on the air before non-conference member legislators had seen the legislation. When lobbyists see legislation before legislators there's something seriously wrong with our democracy.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Just discovered that the bill failed 216-218 . . . so the GOP kept voting until the talley swung in their favor . . .

GOP House railroads American public
"In the end, democracy works," said Rep. David Hobson, R-Ohio, as weary Republicans marked their overtime victory.
"We won it fair and square and they stole it by hook and crook," countered House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California.
The vote was stuck at 216 to 218 for over an hour, and the bill appeared on the verge of defeat, before a flurry of last-minute switches.
Hmm, 434 votes . . . it's been awhile since Social Studies but isn't that pretty close to being everyone?

"I did not want to vote for this bill," said Rep. C.L. (Butch) Otter, R-Idaho. He did, one of a handful of late GOP converts. He said afterward he became convinced that if the measure were defeated, another one would come back to the House floor even less to his liking.
Hmm, wouldn't he just vote against that one, too? Best may be the enemy of good but this Congressman appears to have chosen between bad and maybe more bad.

Rep. Tom Feeney, R-Fla., fielded an afternoon phone call from Bush, who was flying home from England aboard Air Force One. "I basically said it was a matter of principle, that I came to Washington not to ratify and to expand Great Society programs," said the first-term lawmaker. "He wasn't happy to hear that."



 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
FWIW - I don't support this bill. I think it is a HUGE mistake - just like I've held the belief that ANY prescription drug bill would be for the last 8+ years. The Democrats have been pushing for this for quite a while and now they are just pissed because they won't get credit for it so they whine and cry foul. 2 weeks ago the AARP was the held as the gold standard for old people by the Democrats...now all of a sudden it's the worst lobby group that exists(besides Oil;)). So maybe something good will come out of this - maybe the AARP will lose alot of it "power" in Washington :D

The politics of this is hilarious, but the bill no doubt sucks just as ANY drug bill would.

CkG
Maybe you should blast the repubs then instead of the dems? Just a thought.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
FWIW - I don't support this bill. I think it is a HUGE mistake - just like I've held the belief that ANY prescription drug bill would be for the last 8+ years. The Democrats have been pushing for this for quite a while and now they are just pissed because they won't get credit for it so they whine and cry foul. 2 weeks ago the AARP was the held as the gold standard for old people by the Democrats...now all of a sudden it's the worst lobby group that exists(besides Oil;)). So maybe something good will come out of this - maybe the AARP will lose alot of it "power" in Washington :D

The politics of this is hilarious, but the bill no doubt sucks just as ANY drug bill would.

CkG
Maybe you should blast the repubs then instead of the dems? Just a thought.
What part of "HUGE mistake" didn't you read? Also did you miss the part about separating the issue from the politics? I can laugh about the politics and fallout even though I don't support the legislation - because I find it amusing that the Democrats have been yapping about a Drup coverage bill for years and now that it's ACTUALLY being done by someone - they cry foul and turn on the AARP. The politics of it is hilarious - IMO;)

CkG
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,511
46
91
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
FWIW - I don't support this bill. I think it is a HUGE mistake - just like I've held the belief that ANY prescription drug bill would be for the last 8+ years. The Democrats have been pushing for this for quite a while and now they are just pissed because they won't get credit for it so they whine and cry foul. 2 weeks ago the AARP was the held as the gold standard for old people by the Democrats...now all of a sudden it's the worst lobby group that exists(besides Oil;)). So maybe something good will come out of this - maybe the AARP will lose alot of it "power" in Washington :D

The politics of this is hilarious, but the bill no doubt sucks just as ANY drug bill would.

CkG
Maybe you should blast the repubs then instead of the dems? Just a thought.
What part of "HUGE mistake" didn't you read? Also did you miss the part about separating the issue from the politics? I can laugh about the politics and fallout even though I don't support the legislation - because I find it amusing that the Democrats have been yapping about a Drup coverage bill for years and now that it's ACTUALLY being done by someone - they cry foul and turn on the AARP. The politics of it is hilarious - IMO;)

CkG
Word on all you've said, CAD. A prescription drug bill suddenly became a huge, pressing need during the 2000 campaign, the Republicans come up with one (that's an albatross) and now the Democrats hate it. I love politics. LOL.
 

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