Republicans Ponder Not Adopting a Budget This Year

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/03/politics/03budget.html

WASHINGTON, June 2 - They have tried sweet-talk and dire warnings, insults and bluffing tactics. None of it has worked, which is why a growing number of Republicans are beginning to despair about agreeing on a budget plan for next year.

Embarrassing as that would be for the party that controls both houses of Congress, many Republicans are concluding they would be better off with no budget plan than with one that would require them to pay the cost of permanently extending last year's tax cuts.

Senate Republican leaders, back from their Memorial Day recess, showed little sign on Wednesday of persuading a small band of rebels within their own party to drop their insistence on "pay as you go" rules.

The four Republican dissenters, joined by most Democrats, are demanding rules that would force Congress to pay the cost of any new tax cuts either with spending cuts or tax increases in other areas.


The impasse has already undermined President Bush's top domestic goal, which is to make the tax cuts permanent, and it will apparently postpone major budget decisions until after the elections.

It has also exposed a rift over Republican priorities: Is it more important to cut taxes or to prevent the budget deficit from expanding beyond its current level of about $400 billion?

The White House and House Republicans have staunchly opposed any such restrictions, because permanently extending Mr. Bush's tax cuts would cost about $1.7 trillion over the next 10 years.

On Tuesday, Senate Republican staff members floated a possible compromise: If the Republican hold-outs would accept a budget framework negotiated with the House, the Republican leaders would support a separate pay-as-you-go rule that would only apply to the Senate.

But that idea vanished before Republican leaders had even proposed it, apparently because some Senate Republicans viewed it as a capitulation to opponents of the tax cuts.

"I'm still working on a couple of ideas," said Senator Don Nickles, the Oklahoma Republican who is the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. "I'm going to invest some more time in this - but not a lot."

And while some of the Republican holdouts said they were open to compromise, they were far from certain that one would be possible.

"It's closing the barn door after the cows are gone," said Senator John McCain of Arizona, one of the most vocal holdouts, dismissing the proposed budget resolution with a thumbs-down sign.

In addition to Mr. McCain, the major Republican Senate holdouts are Senators Olympia J. Snowe and Susan Collins, both of Maine, and Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island.

"I hope we can come up with a compromise," Ms. Collins said. "But I feel very strongly that there needs to be real budget enforcement."

On Wednesday, two liberal policy research groups released a study estimating that the ultimate cost of the tax cuts would fall overwhelmingly on middle- and lower-income families.

According to the study, by the Tax Policy Center and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, more than three-quarters of all households would end up net losers if the government actually paid for the tax cuts by either spending cuts or other tax increases.

But the wealthiest one-fifth of families, who are by far the biggest beneficiaries of the tax cuts, would end up big winners.

"We should think of tax cuts as loans, not as grants, and in particular as loans that are not paid back by the same people who get them," said William G. Gale, a senior economist at the Tax Policy Center.

One Republican official said Congress could muddle through without a budget agreement. Democrats have already made it clear they will vote to extend at least temporarily three major tax cuts - an expansion of the child tax credit, a reduction in the so-called "marriage penalty" for two-income families and an expansion of the 10-percent tax bracket to cover more middle-income taxpayers.

Failing to adopt a budget resolution would make it harder to prevent lawmakers from adding pet spending projects. It would also mean that any tax-cut extensions would fall under the Senate's normal debating rules, which require at least 60 votes before debate can be ended.

But the biggest issue for Republicans may simply be the embarrassment of not being able to pass a basic budget plan even though they control both chambers of Congress and the White House.

"It's optics," said one Republican aide. "The issue is, can the Republicans do the most basic of things, which is to pass a budget?"

With elections just five months away, neither Democrats nor Republicans want to vote in favor of either tax increases or big budget cuts. But Democrats want to put obstacles in the way of future tax cuts while most Republicans simply want to leave the issue open until next year.

"It's true it would defer the decisions for a year, but at least it would get us through the year that we're in," said Senator Arlen Specter, a moderate Republican from Pennsylvania.

Wonder how much more eager they'd be to work on a fiscally responsible budget if it wasn't an election year.
 
May 10, 2001
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A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.
-Alexander Tytler
 

Bowmaster

Senior member
Mar 11, 2002
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The four Republican dissenters, joined by most Democrats, are demanding rules that would force Congress to pay the cost of any new tax cuts either with spending cuts or tax increases in other areas.

Wow - you mean you aren't going to make your children pay for your policies? You can do that?


"It's closing the barn door after the cows are gone," said Senator John McCain of Arizona, one of the most vocal holdouts, dismissing the proposed budget resolution with a thumbs-down sign.

This man really is my hero. If he were to run for President, I would vote for him over any Democratic candidate.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Bowmaster
The four Republican dissenters, joined by most Democrats, are demanding rules that would force Congress to pay the cost of any new tax cuts either with spending cuts or tax increases in other areas.

Wow - you mean you aren't going to make your children pay for your policies? You can do that?


"It's closing the barn door after the cows are gone," said Senator John McCain of Arizona, one of the most vocal holdouts, dismissing the proposed budget resolution with a thumbs-down sign.

This man really is my hero. If he were to run for President, I would vote for him over any Democratic candidate.
I'd love to see McCain on a fusion ticket. It would be unbeatable. After the way those cowardly, lying Bush boys smeared McCain in 2002, it would be redemption and payback for a TRULY honorable man.

Lastly, I'd love to see McCain on a winning national ticket just to see Ted Sampley's head explode.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
funny thing is, even if they don't adopt a budget this year, they'll still deride democrats as tax and spend liberals. But damn, what a show these guy offer. Last time I laughed so hard was when I saw Shrek 2.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
funny thing is, even if they don't adopt a budget this year, they'll still deride democrats as tax and spend liberals. But damn, what a show these guy offer. Last time I laughed so hard was when I saw Shrek 2.

If they cut spend the republicans will be derided by the democrats, if they keep the current level of spending they will be derided by democrates, if they raise spending they will be derided....

funny how that works.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
funny thing is, even if they don't adopt a budget this year, they'll still deride democrats as tax and spend liberals. But damn, what a show these guy offer. Last time I laughed so hard was when I saw Shrek 2.

If they cut spend the republicans will be derided by the democrats, if they keep the current level of spending they will be derided by democrates, if they raise spending they will be derided....

funny how that works.
BushCo will not present a budget, in fact will be paralyzed into historic inaction, because they're afraid of what the minority Democrats might think?

I call [cough] bullsh!t [/cough].
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
funny thing is, even if they don't adopt a budget this year, they'll still deride democrats as tax and spend liberals. But damn, what a show these guy offer. Last time I laughed so hard was when I saw Shrek 2.

If they cut spend the republicans will be derided by the democrats, if they keep the current level of spending they will be derided by democrates, if they raise spending they will be derided....

funny how that works.
BushCo will not present a budget, in fact will be paralyzed into historic inaction, because they're afraid of what the minority Democrats might think?

I call [cough] bullsh!t [/cough].

There will be some budget presented and passed. If there is not, maybe a goverment shutdown will be needed.
 

Perknose

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
funny thing is, even if they don't adopt a budget this year, they'll still deride democrats as tax and spend liberals. But damn, what a show these guy offer. Last time I laughed so hard was when I saw Shrek 2.

If they cut spend the republicans will be derided by the democrats, if they keep the current level of spending they will be derided by democrates, if they raise spending they will be derided....

funny how that works.
BushCo will not present a budget, in fact will be paralyzed into historic inaction, because they're afraid of what the minority Democrats might think?

I call [cough] bullsh!t [/cough].

There will be some budget presented and passed. If there is not, maybe a goverment shutdown will be needed.
The Bush Administration: Making A Government Shutdown Look Amazingly Appealing Since 2000!
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
funny thing is, even if they don't adopt a budget this year, they'll still deride democrats as tax and spend liberals. But damn, what a show these guy offer. Last time I laughed so hard was when I saw Shrek 2.

If they cut spend the republicans will be derided by the democrats, if they keep the current level of spending they will be derided by democrates, if they raise spending they will be derided....

funny how that works.
BushCo will not present a budget, in fact will be paralyzed into historic inaction, because they're afraid of what the minority Democrats might think?

I call [cough] bullsh!t [/cough].

There will be some budget presented and passed. If there is not, maybe a goverment shutdown will be needed.
The Bush Administration: Making A Government Shutdown Look Amazingly Appealing Since 2000!


It was appealing the last time the republicans did it....and still is.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
funny thing is, even if they don't adopt a budget this year, they'll still deride democrats as tax and spend liberals. But damn, what a show these guy offer. Last time I laughed so hard was when I saw Shrek 2.

If they cut spend the republicans will be derided by the democrats, if they keep the current level of spending they will be derided by democrates, if they raise spending they will be derided....

funny how that works.
BushCo will not present a budget, in fact will be paralyzed into historic inaction, because they're afraid of what the minority Democrats might think?

I call [cough] bullsh!t [/cough].

There will be some budget presented and passed. If there is not, maybe a goverment shutdown will be needed.
The Bush Administration: Making A Government Shutdown Look Amazingly Appealing Since 2000!


It was appealing the last time the republicans did it....and still is.
Charrison, I believe you misspelled "appalling". ;)
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
funny thing is, even if they don't adopt a budget this year, they'll still deride democrats as tax and spend liberals. But damn, what a show these guy offer. Last time I laughed so hard was when I saw Shrek 2.

If they cut spend the republicans will be derided by the democrats, if they keep the current level of spending they will be derided by democrates, if they raise spending they will be derided....

funny how that works.
BushCo will not present a budget, in fact will be paralyzed into historic inaction, because they're afraid of what the minority Democrats might think?

I call [cough] bullsh!t [/cough].

There will be some budget presented and passed. If there is not, maybe a goverment shutdown will be needed.
The Bush Administration: Making A Government Shutdown Look Amazingly Appealing Since 2000!


It was appealing the last time the republicans did it....and still is.
Charrison, I believe you misspelled "appalling". ;)


So it was bad idea when the republican congress in the late 90s forced some financial sanity in DC. Or is it only OK when Clinton gets the credit for that?
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: Perknose




Lastly, I'd love to see McCain on a winning national ticket just to see Ted Sampley's head explode.

I would like to see Jeb Bush and Mccain on a 08 ticket just to see your head explode.

:)
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: charrison
So it was bad idea when the republican congress in the late 90s forced some financial sanity in DC. Or is it only OK when Clinton gets the credit for that?
Neither side deserves any "credit" for that peacock posturing phony food fight, only blame.

And WHAT financial sanity was directly forced by it? Be specific. Provide links.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
So it was bad idea when the republican congress in the late 90s forced some financial sanity in DC. Or is it only OK when Clinton gets the credit for that?
Neither side deserves any "credit" for that peacock posturing phony food fight, only blame.

And WHAT financial sanity was directly forced by it? Be specific. Provide links.

A more fiscally responsable budget....


Google is your friend, dont be afraid to use it.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
So it was bad idea when the republican congress in the late 90s forced some financial sanity in DC. Or is it only OK when Clinton gets the credit for that?
Neither side deserves any "credit" for that peacock posturing phony food fight, only blame.

And WHAT financial sanity was directly forced by it? Be specific. Provide links.

A more fiscally responsable budget....


Google is your friend, dont be afraid to use it.
A cliched and evasive bullsh!t generality is how you back up your argument?

Back up your point with proof, or crawl away, it's your choice.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
So it was bad idea when the republican congress in the late 90s forced some financial sanity in DC. Or is it only OK when Clinton gets the credit for that?
Neither side deserves any "credit" for that peacock posturing phony food fight, only blame.

And WHAT financial sanity was directly forced by it? Be specific. Provide links.

A more fiscally responsable budget....


Google is your friend, dont be afraid to use it.
A cliched and evasive bullsh!t generality is how you back up your argument?

Back up your point with proof, or crawl away, it's your choice.

What's with your "prove it" BS tonight? Bad day? Sheesh.

Look at what happened last time, it's pretty obvious the budget was somewhat fiscally better after the shut-down.

CkG
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Quite a predicament for the GOP. Their whole policy depends on the ability to finance increased spending by borrowing money. The bottom line is that Americans like big govenrment spending, no matter what they say, which is why Republicans can't offer small government with small taxes and be electable. All they can offer is high spending and small taxes financed by borrowing, which is just passing the buck.
And if you doubt that Americans like big government, why do you figure American politics are dominated by two big government parties?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
So it was bad idea when the republican congress in the late 90s forced some financial sanity in DC. Or is it only OK when Clinton gets the credit for that?
Neither side deserves any "credit" for that peacock posturing phony food fight, only blame.

And WHAT financial sanity was directly forced by it? Be specific. Provide links.

A more fiscally responsable budget....


Google is your friend, dont be afraid to use it.
A cliched and evasive bullsh!t generality is how you back up your argument?

Back up your point with proof, or crawl away, it's your choice.

What's with your "prove it" BS tonight? Bad day? Sheesh.

Look at what happened last time, it's pretty obvious the budget was somewhat fiscally better after the shut-down.

CkG
Oh, so asking someone to prove their BS is BS, huh, CAD. That's pretty damn Orweillian to me, not to mention lame and evasive.

It's NOT obvious to me that the budget was fiscally better after the laughably short shutdown, but if it is to you, please link to proof of that for the rest of us. :roll:
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,626
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Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Perknose




Lastly, I'd love to see McCain on a winning national ticket just to see Ted Sampley's head explode.

I would like to see Jeb Bush and Mccain on a 08 ticket just to see your head explode.

:)

lol That was amusing.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Perknose




Lastly, I'd love to see McCain on a winning national ticket just to see Ted Sampley's head explode.

I would like to see Jeb Bush and Mccain on a 08 ticket just to see your head explode.

:)

lol That was amusing.
I'm getting a headache just thinking about it. :D:beer:
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Perknose


Back up your point with proof, or crawl away, it's your choice.
asking [/quote]



BS?????[/quote]Gee, I'm obviously neither bright enough, or physic enough to divine your point here. Or was it a question? Anyway, care to expand on that . . . thought?
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
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Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Perknose


Back up your point with proof, or crawl away, it's your choice.
asking [/quote]



BS?????[/quote]



Too cryptic for me. You're a riddle wrapped in a mystery, Ozoned. ;)
 

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