Republicans not offering much outside of criticism?

[Matt1970]

Oh, so you mean a bill that would cover a small fraction of the uninsured in America and disproportionately benefit wealthy people while charging people with pre existing conditions double what is already likely to be an unaffordable amount.

I guess you can call that an alternative, so long as providing health care to the uninsured isn't your priority. Then again what do I know? I don't spend all day on freep.

I thought that was what Obamacare was already doing. Instead of just charging people with pre existing conditions an unaffordable amount it is charging everyone an unaffordable amount.

 

[ivwshane]

Your nothing but a talking point. Or insult generator. Its like your trying to get Obama's spokesmen job.

Hello pot, meet kettle

I just try to get down to your level.

 

[Fern]

Yes but the problem with the Heritage foundation is that they are the Heritage foundation. They bring with them all their conservative social baggage which almost made them obsolete until a black man became president.

According to Libs Obamacare was invented by the Heritage Foundation. So maybe they know something about the solution?

Fern

 

[Fern]

Oh, so you mean a bill that would cover a small fraction of the uninsured in America and disproportionately benefit wealthy people while charging people with pre existing conditions double what is already likely to be an unaffordable amount.

I guess you can call that an alternative, so long as providing health care to the uninsured isn't your priority. Then again what do I know? I don't spend all day on freep.

So, now you're moving from the position that Repubs haven't offered anything to the position that they haven't offered anything you like.

Never been to "freep".

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

According to Libs Obamacare was invented by the Heritage Foundation. So maybe they know something about the solution?

Fern

Comparing the Heritage Foundation of today with what they were 20 years ago is a joke. They have fallen apart along with much of the intellectual foundations of conservatism. Look at what they produced 20 years ago and compare it to what they do today and tell me you don't see a near total collapse in intellectual rigor.

 

[boomerang]

If you actually read the OP, you would see I admitted where I believed Obama was at fault. If you would take your head out of your own ass for one second you could actually see that.

My, my. Maybe if you understood I was talking in generalities and not specifically at you...

 

[fskimospy]

So, now you're moving from the position that Repubs haven't offered anything to the position that they haven't offered anything you like.

Never been to "freep".

Fern

No, I'm saying that merely proposing a bill related to health care is not offering an alternative to the ACA. The fact that you're trying to set the bar so low shows just how little they have proposed.

I'm sorry to hear that someone attempted to dismiss your position by saying you were getting your ideas from a website you never visit. How unfair.

 

[boomerang]

Yes but the problem with the Heritage foundation is that they are the Heritage foundation. They bring with them all their conservative social baggage which almost made them obsolete until a black man became president.

I submit exhibit 'A'...

I don't agree with "X" organization because of [insert reason here] and therefore I discount anything they might say. I will not entertain anything that comes out of them. YOU must come up with someone else.

 

[ivwshane]

I thought that was what Obamacare was already doing. Instead of just charging people with pre existing conditions an unaffordable amount it is charging everyone an unaffordable amount.

Really? It's charging everyone an unaffordable amount? And this is based on what?

 

[michal1980]

Really? It's charging everyone an unaffordable amount? And this is based on what?

Its your bill.

Do you have proof the rates they are charging are affordable?




didn't think so.

 

[Fern]

No, I'm saying that merely proposing a bill related to health care is not offering an alternative to the ACA. The fact that you're trying to set the bar so low shows just how little they have proposed.

The first link I posted WAS an alternative to Obamacare.

I'm sorry to hear that someone attempted to dismiss your position by saying you were getting your ideas from a website you never visit. How unfair.

"Someone"? That was you.

"Ideas"? I posted links showing examples of Repub HC proposals, not ideas (or talking points).

Fern

 

[ivwshane]

So, now you're moving from the position that Repubs haven't offered anything to the position that they haven't offered anything you like.

Never been to "freep".

Fern

Wait, so have republicans offered anything better than the ACA? It's kind of pointless to offer something if it isn't better than what it's replacing.

And just a reminder the ACA was intended to:

1) slow health care costs.
2) establish a minimum level of insurance coverage (like how we have construction standards, work place safety standards, food and drug standards, car safety standards, etc).
3) to get those previously without coverage covered.

Show me a republican plan that does all of that and does it better. Otherwise it's kind of a pointless talking point don't you think?

 

[2timer]

My, my. Maybe if you understood I was talking in generalities and not specifically at you...

 

[ivwshane]

Its your bill.

Do you have proof the rates they are charging are affordable?




didn't think so.

Why yes I do:
Personal rates
http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/25/news/economy/obamacare-premium-rates/

Hospital rates
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20131005/MAGAZINE/310059974?template=smartphone

Here is a fact that I doubt you knew; the ACA is a free market idea where insures compete in a single easy to understand marketplace, that lets the consumer make informed choices with the comfort of knowing that their insurance provider can't screw them over. Sounds like a win to me, but I'm a pro consumer kind of guy

 

[Fern]

Wait, so have republicans offered anything better than the ACA? It's kind of pointless to offer something if it isn't better than what it's replacing.

And just a reminder the ACA was intended to:

1) slow health care costs.
2) establish a minimum level of insurance coverage (like how we have construction standards, work place safety standards, food and drug standards, car safety standards, etc).
3) to get those previously without coverage covered.

Show me a republican plan that does all of that and does it better. Otherwise it's kind of a pointless talking point don't you think?

Whether their proposals are better is subjective. Seems many feel anything else would be better.

What Obamacare was intended to do is rather irrelevant. It's what it is doing that is important. Most will disagree that it ever had a chance to accomplish #1. They botched #2. So far #3 isn't working, more are now without HI than before.

It's not a "talking point" to demonstrate that those saying the Repubs have offered nothing are incorrect (in fact, that erroneous assertion is itself nothing but a "talking point").

Fern

 

[Matt1970]

Really? It's charging everyone an unaffordable amount? And this is based on what?

The quotes I have seen. Just the ones posted here are bad enough.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Here is a fact that I doubt you knew; the ACA is a free market idea where insures compete in a single easy to understand marketplace, that lets the consumer make informed choices with the comfort of knowing that their insurance provider can't screw them over. Sounds like a win to me, but I'm a pro consumer kind of guy

You cannot be serious?

It's not a "free market" when the govt forces customers to purchase. It is not a "free market" when the govt tell consumers what the product will look like. The latter is called central planning. For examples of the benefits and success of central planning please look up that wonderful auto named the "trabant".

Also, there's a definite lack of competition. I've got exactly provider one provider on the exchange. It's the antithesis of competition.

Informed choices? Most seem hopelessly confused.

We've yet to see how Obamacare will prevent disputes with HI companies (or screwing over customers as you put it).

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

The first link I posted WAS an alternative to Obamacare.

I encourage you to actually read analysis of that proposal and tell me with a straight face that is an alternative.

"Someone"? That was you.

"Ideas"? I posted links showing examples of Repub HC proposals, not ideas (or talking points).

Fern

Of course it was me. Now think how that relates to what you wrote before.

 

[Matt1970]

Why yes I do:
Personal rates
http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/25/news/economy/obamacare-premium-rates/

Hospital rates
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20131005/MAGAZINE/310059974?template=smartphone

Here is a fact that I doubt you knew; the ACA is a free market idea where insures compete in a single easy to understand marketplace, that lets the consumer make informed choices with the comfort of knowing that their insurance provider can't screw them over. Sounds like a win to me, but I'm a pro consumer kind of guy

Look at the differences between Tennessee $161/$584 and Wyoming $342/$1237. The "pro consumer kind of guy" doesn't see a problem with that? One of the problems brought up about our Healthcare system was the drastic differences in prices between states. This is still the same bullshit we had before. A win for the guy in Tennessee, bent over and fucked up the ass for the guy in Wyoming.

Besides, we need to see actual numbers not data released by the Obama administration mid-September. Obama's credibility is in the toilet right now.

 

[senseamp]

Look at the differences between Tennessee $161/$584 and Wyoming $342/$1237. The "pro consumer kind of guy" doesn't see a problem with that? One of the problems brought up about our Healthcare system was the drastic differences in prices between states. This is still the same bullshit we had before. A win for the guy in Tennessee, bent over and fucked up the ass for the guy in Wyoming.

Besides, we need to see actual numbers not data released by the Obama administration mid-September. Obama's credibility is in the toilet right now.

$342 per month is reasonable for individual market.

 

[Matt1970]

$342 per month is reasonable for individual market.

Why twice the price because of what state you live in?

 

[ivwshane]

Besides, we need to see actual numbers not data released by the Obama administration mid-September. Obama's credibility is in the toilet right now.

Then don't make claims you can't back up

 

[xj0hnx]

what are the Republicans doing to improve healthcare for Americans? Do they even want for more Americans to have affordable health insurance?

Fuck insurance,something needs to be done to reign in actual medical cost.My biggest problem is that this whole ACA debacle start to finish does NOTHING to address health care cost. No one should have to pay $600-$1,200 a month for $100 office visits, check ups, and simple medical procedures a couple times a year, that's insane, insurance should be carried for catastrophic events that there's no way one could afford.

 

[ivwshane]

Whether their proposals are better is subjective. Seems many feel anything else would be better.

What Obamacare was intended to do is rather irrelevant. It's what it is doing that is important. Most will disagree that it ever had a chance to accomplish #1. They botched #2. So far #3 isn't working, more are now without HI than before.

It's not a "talking point" to demonstrate that those saying the Repubs have offered nothing are incorrect (in fact, that erroneous assertion is itself nothing but a "talking point").

Fern

No they are not subjective. You either have something that can do the following and do it better, ie cheaper, more efficiently or any number of things that would be better, or you don't.

1) slow health care costs.
2) establish a minimum level of insurance coverage (like how we have construction standards, work place safety standards, food and drug standards, car safety standards, etc).
3) to get those previously without coverage covered.

Those are pretty straight forward goals.

 

[ivwshane]

Fuck insurance,something needs to be done to reign in actual medical cost.My biggest problem is that this whole ACA debacle start to finish does NOTHING to address health care cost. No one should have to pay $600-$1,200 a month for $100 office visits, check ups, and simple medical procedures a couple times a year, that's insane, insurance should be carried for catastrophic events that there's no way one could afford.

You ever take your car in for a tune up? How much does that cost? You ever have your heating/cooling system checked out/serviced? How much does that typically cost? A $100 for a doctors visit seems like a reasonable price.

If you want cheaper prices then you have to support a system other than what we have which is a for profit health care system. Do you support implementing an alternative system?