Republicans: No Big Government - Unless It's About Rape.

[Blackjack200]

Forest for the trees. I already support abortion because I think it's the least shitty among shitty options, but if you're enabling rapists just to help women get them you're morally obtuse and stupid. If you get raped and don't do anything to help catch the perp (even such a minimally demanding thing as file a police report) then I not only lose most of my sympathy for you but think you're acting as an accessory after the fact should he rape again.

Holy... You're a shitty human being. I really have nothing further.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah, that abortion is so worth the extra rapes allowed by not filing a police report and helping catch the assailant. We should repeal the laws requiring people to report child abuse for the same reasons, causing people "hassle" is so unfair.

Heck, maybe there's a business opportunity here of "rape for hire" so women can get abortions without worry about filing a false police report for a rape that never happened just to get an abortion.

So true. I had some asshole leave the door to his truck open in a wind and it blew into the side of my car leaving a mark, but I didn't report the incident to the police because I support assholes that don't care what they do to the people they park next to.

 

[glenn1]

Why only require it of women seeking an abortion? Why not require for any woman who is raped?

Hey, if a serial rapist is caught, and we discover that some of his previous victims never reported the attack, lets charge them with accessory or obstruction of justice. You make some really compelling arguments, you sad sack of shit.

Yeah, it's probably better just to compel them to testify in court and have to look the victims after them in the eyes and explain why they did nothing to help them. "My rape was so terrible that I did nothing to help prevent yours" would be some compelling testimony.

 

[Moonbeam]

Holy... You're a shitty human being. I really have nothing further.

I favor reporting the crime in all cases where the victim has the strength to do so and not in those cases where the victim is emotionally too damaged and will feel victimized all over again. In the latter case all effort should be made to get the victim to a place where they have that strength.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah, it's probably better just to compel them to testify in court and have to look the victims after them in the eyes and explain why they did nothing to help them. "My rape was so terrible that I did nothing to help prevent yours" would be some compelling testimony.

You carry the absolute good of reporting crime to an extreme that violates the absolute sovereignty of the victim to run from pain. It's the mark of a fanatic.

 

[glenn1]

Holy... You're a shitty human being. I really have nothing further.

Yep, the clearest evidence that we live in a rape culture is that people argue with a straight face that victims should be allowed to decide whether to do nothing to help prevent it from happening again.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So if a woman decides she doesn't want or care for a baby she should make a false rape claim to get an abortion? How does a bunch of nameless, faceless imaginary rapists help the Police investigate real crimes?
To me the abortion issue was resolved decades ago and continually revisiting it is a waste of time. Time spent helping mothers who are on the edge of the decision is where the effort should be spent.

 

[realibrad]

Yep, the clearest evidence that we live in a rape culture is that people argue with a straight face that victims should be allowed to decide whether to do nothing to help prevent it from happening again.

At least let me know if you are not going to answer.

 

[Blackjack200]

I favor reporting the crime in all cases where the victim has the strength to do so and not in those cases where the victim is emotionally too damaged and will feel victimized all over again. In the latter case all effort should be made to get the victim to a place where they have that strength.

I have no problem with encouraging women to report the crime.

I have also reported more minor crimes to the police (burglaries), and after dealing with their shitty attitudes I decided I'll never call the police or report a crime again unless I have no choice. I certainly understand a rape vicitim decideing she'd rather not subject herself to the morass that is our criminal justice system.

We're sort of off on a tangent though, I doubt you or any other sane person would seriously entertain forcing a woman to report the crime to police before receiving treatment.

 

[Jaskalas]

The issue with abortion and individual rights is that there are two individuals involved and we're deciding the right of one to kill another. The allowance of murder should not be taken lightly.

Thus the whole issue exists at all, and why folks who believe in individual rights, in maximum extent of liberty as possible, take pause with sanctioning this one.

Given the heated nature of this subject, I settle on a compromise. Any abortion, for any reason, until 4 months. Exceptions made by a doctor's note given a medical reason. If you want it done, get it done early. For the rest, I'll leave it up to society to settle the moral argument.

 

[glenn1]

At least let me know if you are not going to answer.

Yes.

Perhaps it's pointless trying to expect consistency out of them, but it would be nice if they could square "tell rapists not to rape" and "you shouldn't be required to report rape" since they're basically exact opposites of each other. It's taken "rape isn't your fault" past the looking glass into "it's so not your fault you shouldn't even try to prevent it from reoccurring."

 

[realibrad]

Yes.

Perhaps it's pointless trying to expect consistency out of them, but it would be nice if they could square "tell rapists not to rape" and "you shouldn't be required to report rape" since they're basically exact opposites of each other. It's taken "rape isn't your fault" past the looking glass into "it's so not your fault you shouldn't even try to prevent it from reoccurring."

You are deflecting.
I have seen other posts by you. You are fully able to defend your position, so I don't understand why you are not now.

 

[glenn1]

I have no problem with encouraging women to report the crime.

I have also reported more minor crimes to the police (burglaries), and after dealing with their shitty attitudes I decided I'll never call the police or report a crime again unless I have no choice. I certainly understand a rape vicitim decideing she'd rather not subject herself to the morass that is our criminal justice system.

We're sort of off on a tangent though, I doubt you or any other sane person would seriously entertain forcing a woman to report the crime to police before receiving treatment.

You would support the "treatment" regardless though. I obviously strenuously disagree with your opinion about reporting rapes and completely independently of whether this bill lives or dies.

Getting back off the tangent now. Again, leave aside your feelings on this particular bill (I think it's stupid) to see the other side's POV. Reframe it as another law if that helps - lets' say it's Obamacare (which you support). Imagine that to placate opposition to the mandatory insurance requirement you've allowed a "religious belief" exception. Would you then be cool if everyone who opposed Obamacare could claim that belief exemption with no proof at all and thus leading to the failure of a primary purpose of your law? Well, this abortion law is sorta the same thing, just change the no-doc belief exception for "rape" and it's the same basic thing. I would not vote for this bill, but likewise think that Congress should be allowed to write one without an exception so big you can drive a truck though it and makes it completely unworkable.

 

[mikeymikec]

Yeah, that abortion is so worth the extra rapes allowed by not filing a police report and helping catch the assailant. We should repeal the laws requiring people to report child abuse for the same reasons, causing people "hassle" is so unfair.

Spoken like someone with first-hand experience of the topic. Not.

 

[Blackjack200]

You would support the "treatment" regardless though. I obviously strenuously disagree with your opinion about reporting rapes and completely independently of whether this bill lives or dies.

Getting back off the tangent now. Again, leave aside your feelings on this particular bill (I think it's stupid) to see the other side's POV. Reframe it as another law if that helps - lets' say it's Obamacare (which you support). Imagine that to placate opposition to the mandatory insurance requirement you've allowed a "religious belief" exception. Would you then be cool if everyone who opposed Obamacare could claim that belief exemption with no proof at all and thus leading to the failure of a primary purpose of your law? Well, this abortion law is sorta the same thing, just change the no-doc belief exception for "rape" and it's the same basic thing. I would not vote for this bill, but likewise think that Congress should be allowed to write one without an exception so big you can drive a truck though it and makes it completely unworkable.

I don't support people being able to deny health care based on their religious beliefs, so your whole hypothetical falls flat.

 

[realibrad]

You would support the "treatment" regardless though. I obviously strenuously disagree with your opinion about reporting rapes and completely independently of whether this bill lives or dies.

Getting back off the tangent now. Again, leave aside your feelings on this particular bill (I think it's stupid) to see the other side's POV. Reframe it as another law if that helps - lets' say it's Obamacare (which you support). Imagine that to placate opposition to the mandatory insurance requirement you've allowed a "religious belief" exception. Would you then be cool if everyone who opposed Obamacare could claim that belief exemption with no proof at all and thus leading to the failure of a primary purpose of your law? Well, this abortion law is sorta the same thing, just change the no-doc belief exception for "rape" and it's the same basic thing. I would not vote for this bill, but likewise think that Congress should be allowed to write one without an exception so big you can drive a truck though it and makes it completely unworkable.

You have made a logic mistake. The reason for not being for the right to opt out, is the same reason to not be for Obamacare.

My position, even though this question was not for me, is that Obamacare should not be compulsory thus wrong. The question you just asked was, put aside you believe, and then tell me what you believe. Unless the person has cognitive dissonance, it cant be done.

 

[realibrad]

Spoken like someone with first-hand experience of the topic. Not.

This post by far is the most dumb thing I have seen in this thread so far. Congrats on that.

You do not need to have been raped to have an opinion on this issue.

 

[Blackjack200]

This post by far is the most dumb thing I have seen in this thread so far. Congrats on that.

You do not need to have been raped to have an opinion on this issue.

No, but it is deeply offensive for someone who has not been raped to place more responsibility and blame on rape victims.

Did you read the part where he thought that rape vicitims shoud get up on the stand and tell other rape victims why they didn't report it? That's some pretty evil shit right there.

 

[glenn1]

Spoken like someone with first-hand experience of the topic. Not.

I wasn't the victim of child molestation either but can understand the rationale behind and support mandatory reporting for that also.

 

[realibrad]

No, but it is deeply offensive for someone who has not been raped to place more responsibility and blame on rape victims.

Did you read the part where he thought that rape vicitims shoud get up on the stand and tell other rape victims why they didn't report it? That's some pretty evil shit right there.

I don't agree that its offensive. Its wrong, but I am not offended.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Ignore

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I wasn't the victim of child molestation either but can understand the rationale behind and support mandatory reporting for that also.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Strohmeyer


.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Stupid mobile site

 

[glenn1]

No, but it is deeply offensive for someone who has not been raped to place more responsibility and blame on rape victims.

Did you read the part where he thought that rape vicitims shoud get up on the stand and tell other rape victims why they didn't report it? That's some pretty evil shit right there.

I'm not sure how to even explain thinking like that. If a calamity happens to me, it's not "placing more blame" on me to help it from happening to someone else also. If you honestly believe as feminists do it's impossible for reporting to police to create blame on the victim since no one but the rapist is at fault.

 

[realibrad]

I'm not sure how to even explain thinking like that. If a calamity happens to me, it's not "placing more blame" on me to help it from happening to someone else also. If you honestly believe as feminists do it's impossible for reporting to police to create blame on the victim since no one but the rapist is at fault.

Over investment in defenses is a waste of resources. A society where everyone is completely responsible for their own protection, means they are only able to defend based on their resources. A woman inherent will not likely be as strong as a man. Should you hold all women accountable for doing anything that puts them in any danger of rape? No, that would be absurd. Does it mean that any woman raped is 100% not responsible for her rape? No, that would be absurd.

We understand that reckless behavior means the person holds some responsibility. In the case of rape, the punishment for that is being the victim. The rapist should be held to a different standard, because the actions were far worse.