Republicans are digging their own grave.

[tec699]

Bush's spending plan

The moderate Republicans have to be worried because come election time they are going to take the full brunt of Bush's choice to cut education, meidcare/medicade and health agencies.

All of these choices and many more are going to start to affect the majority of people who vote: THE MIDDLE CLASS! The middle class is going to start to ask why is their lifestyle declinging while we are spending billions of dollars in other countries? This is the exact same thing that happened to Bush's father. Ignore the domestic issues that face this country and it will come back to bite you.


:|

 

[Acanthus]

I am very very disappointed in the budget as it stands.

 

[tec699]

The house is up for reelection later this year. How are the Republicans going to sell a budget that has $35 billion in medicare cuts during the next 5 years. A budget that is cutting 28% for education.

I'm sure that the American people are going to like those nice cuts.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: tec699
The house is up for reelection later this year. How are the Republicans going to sell a budget that has $35 billion in medicare cuts during the next 5 years. A budget that is cutting 28% for education.

I'm sure that the American people are going to like those nice cuts.

The cuts to medicare slow its growth from 7.8% to 7.6% annually. This is only a reduction in growth, not a cut. I am sure the same is true for education. But it does seem that people are complaining that budget is too large, but they are also complaining about any planned cuts, no matter how small they are.

 

[CaptnKirk]

This 'Guns or Butter' game is playing a bit thin - Massive deficits, tax breaks for the well-to-do
and the balance of the budget on the backs of the lower income class.

The rich get richer, and the poor get children . . .

 

[dullard]

For more of my thoughts, see my P&N 2007 budget thread.

Originally posted by: charrison
This is only a reduction in growth, not a cut. I am sure the same is true for education.

141 programs are proposed to get significant cuts and/or being eliminated. Eliminating a program is not "only a reduction in growth". Forty two of those terminated programs are in education. I'll present some examples.

Program: 2006 budget, 2007 budget
Total outlays for all programs: $83.9B, $64.5B
[*]Safe and Drug Free Schools Programs: $569M, $216M
[*]TRIO Upward Bound: $311M, $0
[*]TRIO Talent Search: $145M, $0
[*]GEAR UP: $303M, $0
[*]Perkins Loans Cancellations (for teachers in areas of greatest need, 20% can be cancelled each year): $65M, $0
[*]Federal Direct Student Loans: $4,791M, $63M
[*]Federal Family Education Loans: $18,245M, $5,340M

Cutting things may be good. I cannot comment on all the programs since I don't know their details. But I do know that up until now, ANYONE who wanted to go to college could afford to go to school with the student loans. Say goodbye to that era. That will have a drastic impact on many poor/lower middle class children. They may no longer have any ability to go to college and get out of their welfare status.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: dullard
But I do know that up until now, ANYONE who wanted to go to college could afford to go to school with the student loans. Say goodbye to that era. That will have a drastic impact on many poor/lower middle class children. They may no longer have any ability to go to college and get out of their welfare status.

Blah--they can go to work for Wal-Mart (and LIKE IT) like the good citizens they should aspire to be. Who the hell are they to think they're more important the the poor CEO who can't buy a replacement ocean liner for the one he sank (while sailing drunk)? :roll:

 

[Genx87]

Who in the middle class recieves govt funded healthcare? Educational issues should be state issues, not federal govt issues.

These are your A-Typical headline grabbing issue that affects the poor but is pawned off as screwing the middle class.

And what do Americans want? A smalled deficit or more raping of the taxpayer?
We need to make up our minds. One day we complain the deficit is out of control, the next we complain the budget got cut.

Edit: btw cut is govt speak for not raising it at its previously ridiculous rate, not actually reducing spending.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
This 'Guns or Butter' game is playing a bit thin - Massive deficits, tax breaks for the well-to-do
and the balance of the budget on the backs of the lower income class.

The rich get richer, and the poor get children . . .

Tax cuts for people who pay taxes. I agree nearly 50% of America will see almost no benefit from a tax cut because they represents 6% of the federal tax stream.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dullard
For more of my thoughts, see my P&N 2007 budget thread.

Originally posted by: charrison
This is only a reduction in growth, not a cut. I am sure the same is true for education.

141 programs are proposed to get significant cuts and/or being eliminated. Eliminating a program is not "only a reduction in growth". Forty two of those terminated programs are in education. I'll present some examples.

Program: 2006 budget, 2007 budget
Total outlays for all programs: $83.9B, $64.5B
[*]Safe and Drug Free Schools Programs: $569M, $216M
[*]TRIO Upward Bound: $311M, $0
[*]TRIO Talent Search: $145M, $0
[*]GEAR UP: $303M, $0
[*]Perkins Loans Cancellations (for teachers in areas of greatest need, 20% can be cancelled each year): $65M, $0
[*]Federal Direct Student Loans: $4,791M, $63M
[*]Federal Family Education Loans: $18,245M, $5,340M

Cutting things may be good. I cannot comment on all the programs since I don't know their details. But I do know that up until now, ANYONE who wanted to go to college could afford to go to school with the student loans. Say goodbye to that era. That will have a drastic impact on many poor/lower middle class children. They may no longer have any ability to go to college and get out of their welfare status.

At the same time it is very possible the huge inflation in tuition rates will slow due to a smaller amount of people with cashin hand to pay for an education. The end result being tuition rates stay within the grasp of middle America.

 

[tec699]

The good thing about the reducation in student aid is that it will put pressure on universities and colleges to curb their increase in tuition. College tuition in NJ has increased by over 40% in the last 4 years.

I want a balanced budget. I actually want a reduction in welfare. For too many generation, people have been living solely on welfare and food stamps. Get a job people!! Take control of your lives.

Also, I know that most people are going to be against this but I feel that old people are putting an unwanted burden on our society. It's getting expensive to house and feed old people. So I'd like to see the government end pensions after you reach a certain age. I believe that when an individual reaches 72 years of age they should have to rely on themselves and NOT ON SOCIETY!!! I'd rather have the money go back into our economy so the younger generations can put it to better use.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Genx87
At the same time it is very possible the huge inflation in tuition rates will slow due to a smaller amount of people with cashin hand to pay for an education. The end result being tuition rates stay within the grasp of middle America.

And we breed more poverty, ignorance and crime. Education has so many long term benefits that the costs of any of the spending are worth more than any other spending on crime and poverty.

Bush's budget proposal is a disaster. Huge cuts to infrastructure spending (which provides wheels to our economy), huge reductions in education. Although I might agree with the medicare and medicade cuts, they will likely raise healthcare costs for everyone by making medicare and medicaide even less attractive to doctors. Not to mention that the cuts will be the branding iron of death to any congress critter that tries to approve them. I predict a quick death to Bush's budget proposal, I just hope NONE of his stupid ass cuts make it into the budget.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dullard
For more of my thoughts, see my P&N 2007 budget thread.

Originally posted by: charrison
This is only a reduction in growth, not a cut. I am sure the same is true for education.

141 programs are proposed to get significant cuts and/or being eliminated. Eliminating a program is not "only a reduction in growth". Forty two of those terminated programs are in education. I'll present some examples.

Program: 2006 budget, 2007 budget
Total outlays for all programs: $83.9B, $64.5B
[*]Safe and Drug Free Schools Programs: $569M, $216M
[*]TRIO Upward Bound: $311M, $0
[*]TRIO Talent Search: $145M, $0
[*]GEAR UP: $303M, $0
[*]Perkins Loans Cancellations (for teachers in areas of greatest need, 20% can be cancelled each year): $65M, $0
[*]Federal Direct Student Loans: $4,791M, $63M
[*]Federal Family Education Loans: $18,245M, $5,340M

Cutting things may be good. I cannot comment on all the programs since I don't know their details. But I do know that up until now, ANYONE who wanted to go to college could afford to go to school with the student loans. Say goodbye to that era. That will have a drastic impact on many poor/lower middle class children. They may no longer have any ability to go to college and get out of their welfare status.

At the same time it is very possible the huge inflation in tuition rates will slow due to a smaller amount of people with cashin hand to pay for an education. The end result being tuition rates stay within the grasp of middle America.

Keep shining that turd, Genx.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Genx87
At the same time it is very possible the huge inflation in tuition rates will slow due to a smaller amount of people with cashin hand to pay for an education. The end result being tuition rates stay within the grasp of middle America.

And we breed more poverty, ignorance and crime. Education has so many long term benefits that the costs of any of the spending are worth more than any other spending on crime and poverty.

Bush's budget proposal is a disaster. Huge cuts to infrastructure spending (which provides wheels to our economy), huge reductions in education. Although I might agree with the medicare and medicade cuts, they will likely raise healthcare costs for everyone by making medicare and medicaide even less attractive to doctors. Not to mention that the cuts will be the branding iron of death to any congress critter that tries to approve them. I predict a quick death to Bush's budget proposal, I just hope NONE of his stupid ass cuts make it into the budget.

You cant deny tuition rates have skyrockets to the point where many middle class families without help cant afford to go to a University. Many people believe this is due to a large amount of willing applicants flooding the market. Like any open market with an excess of demand the costs go up.

And an education doesnt automatically guarantee crime, ignorance, and poverty will go away. You are simply moving the goalposts forward. 100 years ago a highschool education was a big deal and a college degree a gurantee high end position. Today a Masters is required for a high end position while a BA is almost standard and may or may not even get you a paying job worth the cost of the education. A highschool education is near worthless except to say you graduated.

The same can be said of Medicaid and Medicare. An excess of money from a subsidized program could very well be part of the problem of the massive rise in healthcare costs.

When you interject a govt program into a free market it can cause problems due to the very nature of a govt subsidy. Most subsidies dont reside within the bounds of the very market they are in and thus throw the market off.

Imagine tomorrow of we didnt have the tax payers to pay for the above an instead of using the above they simply stayed at home? The drop in demand could cause both to reduce their rates to attract more customers.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dullard
For more of my thoughts, see my P&N 2007 budget thread.

Originally posted by: charrison
This is only a reduction in growth, not a cut. I am sure the same is true for education.

141 programs are proposed to get significant cuts and/or being eliminated. Eliminating a program is not "only a reduction in growth". Forty two of those terminated programs are in education. I'll present some examples.

Program: 2006 budget, 2007 budget
Total outlays for all programs: $83.9B, $64.5B
[*]Safe and Drug Free Schools Programs: $569M, $216M
[*]TRIO Upward Bound: $311M, $0
[*]TRIO Talent Search: $145M, $0
[*]GEAR UP: $303M, $0
[*]Perkins Loans Cancellations (for teachers in areas of greatest need, 20% can be cancelled each year): $65M, $0
[*]Federal Direct Student Loans: $4,791M, $63M
[*]Federal Family Education Loans: $18,245M, $5,340M

Cutting things may be good. I cannot comment on all the programs since I don't know their details. But I do know that up until now, ANYONE who wanted to go to college could afford to go to school with the student loans. Say goodbye to that era. That will have a drastic impact on many poor/lower middle class children. They may no longer have any ability to go to college and get out of their welfare status.

At the same time it is very possible the huge inflation in tuition rates will slow due to a smaller amount of people with cashin hand to pay for an education. The end result being tuition rates stay within the grasp of middle America.

Keep shining that turd, Genx.

Another gem of a response from Darkhawk.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dullard
For more of my thoughts, see my P&N 2007 budget thread.

Originally posted by: charrison
This is only a reduction in growth, not a cut. I am sure the same is true for education.

141 programs are proposed to get significant cuts and/or being eliminated. Eliminating a program is not "only a reduction in growth". Forty two of those terminated programs are in education. I'll present some examples.

Program: 2006 budget, 2007 budget
Total outlays for all programs: $83.9B, $64.5B
[*]Safe and Drug Free Schools Programs: $569M, $216M
[*]TRIO Upward Bound: $311M, $0
[*]TRIO Talent Search: $145M, $0
[*]GEAR UP: $303M, $0
[*]Perkins Loans Cancellations (for teachers in areas of greatest need, 20% can be cancelled each year): $65M, $0
[*]Federal Direct Student Loans: $4,791M, $63M
[*]Federal Family Education Loans: $18,245M, $5,340M

Cutting things may be good. I cannot comment on all the programs since I don't know their details. But I do know that up until now, ANYONE who wanted to go to college could afford to go to school with the student loans. Say goodbye to that era. That will have a drastic impact on many poor/lower middle class children. They may no longer have any ability to go to college and get out of their welfare status.

At the same time it is very possible the huge inflation in tuition rates will slow due to a smaller amount of people with cashin hand to pay for an education. The end result being tuition rates stay within the grasp of middle America.

Keep shining that turd, Genx.

Another gem of a response from Darkhawk.

Your response was so ridiculous, I responded appropriately.

 

[Acanthus]

There is no way to spin a massive education cut and make it look good, especially the loans that ALMOST ALL college students depend on to get through... now we will get private loans at insane interest rates and wind up with thousands more in payments, if we can get loans AT ALL.

Even if you cut through the BS excuses of costs radically increasing, there are better ways to control costs, especially at GOVERNMENT OWNED AND OPERATED colleges.

Edit: typos and clarification

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
There is no way to cut a massive education cut, especially the loans that ALMOST ALL college students depend on to get through... now we will get private loans at insane interest rates and wind up with thousands more in payments.

Even if you cut through the BS excuses of costs radically increasing, there are better ways to control costs, especially at GOVENMENT OWNED AND OPERATED colleges.

I agree.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dullard
For more of my thoughts, see my P&N 2007 budget thread.

Originally posted by: charrison
This is only a reduction in growth, not a cut. I am sure the same is true for education.

141 programs are proposed to get significant cuts and/or being eliminated. Eliminating a program is not "only a reduction in growth". Forty two of those terminated programs are in education. I'll present some examples.

Program: 2006 budget, 2007 budget
Total outlays for all programs: $83.9B, $64.5B
[*]Safe and Drug Free Schools Programs: $569M, $216M
[*]TRIO Upward Bound: $311M, $0
[*]TRIO Talent Search: $145M, $0
[*]GEAR UP: $303M, $0
[*]Perkins Loans Cancellations (for teachers in areas of greatest need, 20% can be cancelled each year): $65M, $0
[*]Federal Direct Student Loans: $4,791M, $63M
[*]Federal Family Education Loans: $18,245M, $5,340M

Cutting things may be good. I cannot comment on all the programs since I don't know their details. But I do know that up until now, ANYONE who wanted to go to college could afford to go to school with the student loans. Say goodbye to that era. That will have a drastic impact on many poor/lower middle class children. They may no longer have any ability to go to college and get out of their welfare status.

At the same time it is very possible the huge inflation in tuition rates will slow due to a smaller amount of people with cashin hand to pay for an education. The end result being tuition rates stay within the grasp of middle America.

Keep shining that turd, Genx.

FTW!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dullard
For more of my thoughts, see my P&N 2007 budget thread.

Originally posted by: charrison
This is only a reduction in growth, not a cut. I am sure the same is true for education.

141 programs are proposed to get significant cuts and/or being eliminated. Eliminating a program is not "only a reduction in growth". Forty two of those terminated programs are in education. I'll present some examples.

Program: 2006 budget, 2007 budget
Total outlays for all programs: $83.9B, $64.5B
[*]Safe and Drug Free Schools Programs: $569M, $216M
[*]TRIO Upward Bound: $311M, $0
[*]TRIO Talent Search: $145M, $0
[*]GEAR UP: $303M, $0
[*]Perkins Loans Cancellations (for teachers in areas of greatest need, 20% can be cancelled each year): $65M, $0
[*]Federal Direct Student Loans: $4,791M, $63M
[*]Federal Family Education Loans: $18,245M, $5,340M

Cutting things may be good. I cannot comment on all the programs since I don't know their details. But I do know that up until now, ANYONE who wanted to go to college could afford to go to school with the student loans. Say goodbye to that era. That will have a drastic impact on many poor/lower middle class children. They may no longer have any ability to go to college and get out of their welfare status.

At the same time it is very possible the huge inflation in tuition rates will slow due to a smaller amount of people with cashin hand to pay for an education. The end result being tuition rates stay within the grasp of middle America.

Keep shining that turd, Genx.

Another gem of a response from Darkhawk.

Your response was so ridiculous, I responded appropriately.

Think outside the box for a moment, I know it hurts, but try anyways.

 

[tommywishbone]

"Digging their own grave?" If digging your own grave means, getting rich beyond belief and consolidating your power, then yes, they are digging their own grave. The republicans are going to do whatever they want, and you & I will sit here and take it.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
This 'Guns or Butter' game is playing a bit thin - Massive deficits, tax breaks for the well-to-do
and the balance of the budget on the backs of the lower income class.

The rich get richer, and the poor get children . . .

Tax cuts for people who pay taxes. I agree nearly 50% of America will see almost no benefit from a tax cut because they represents 6% of the federal tax stream.

Still represent 50% of the voters though

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Genx87
You cant deny tuition rates have skyrockets to the point where many middle class families without help cant afford to go to a University. Many people believe this is due to a large amount of willing applicants flooding the market. Like any open market with an excess of demand the costs go up.

Costs have been increasing faster than inflation because the states have been shifting the tuition load from the taxpayers to the students. Your solution of reducing the number of people in college is completely insane. You will reduce american competativeness to a point where we cannot even compete on the global scale. The only thing that has been keeping our economy going while we continue to reduce factory and farming jobs is that a large number of people are moving into new field like biotech and nanotech. These fields are expected to the be new silicon valley driver of the economy and Bush wants to kill tuition assistance and destroy america's competative edge. There will be a sharp decline in our economy in 20 years if these cuts are approved.

Originally posted by: Genx87
And an education doesnt automatically guarantee crime, ignorance, and poverty will go away. You are simply moving the goalposts forward. 100 years ago a highschool education was a big deal and a college degree a gurantee high end position. Today a Masters is required for a high end position while a BA is almost standard and may or may not even get you a paying job worth the cost of the education. A highschool education is near worthless except to say you graduated.

So your arguement is that it won't reduce it for all eternity so we should not even bother?

Originally posted by: Genx87
The same can be said of Medicaid and Medicare. An excess of money from a subsidized program could very well be part of the problem of the massive rise in healthcare costs.

Doctors are reimbursed $.70 on the dollar for work they do under medicaide and medicare. They pass those costs on to the general population. A cut in reimbursements to the facilities and doctors is just going to raise everyone elses medical costs. But seriously, you are arguing that we should just let people not go to the doctor to try to reduce costs?

Originally posted by: Genx87
When you interject a govt program into a free market it can cause problems due to the very nature of a govt subsidy. Most subsidies dont reside within the bounds of the very market they are in and thus throw the market off.

I don't doubt that, but you are talking about cutting significant programs that benefit millions every day. They are by far the most important federal spending in the budget. Frankly I think we spend way to much on defense and we need to cut way back and focus more on specialized force deployments.

Originally posted by: Genx87
Imagine tomorrow of we didnt have the tax payers to pay for the above an instead of using the above they simply stayed at home? The drop in demand could cause both to reduce their rates to attract more customers.

So I guessed right, you are argueing we shouldn't provide healthcare to the elderly and dissabled, nor should we educate our population. Good call there. It will cut costs and the effects on the population will be tremendous.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: rahvin
So I guessed right, you are argueing we shouldn't provide healthcare to the elderly and dissabled, nor should we educate our population. Good call there. It will cut costs and the effects on the population will be tremendous.

You forget, rahvin, that Genx87 secretly wants to keep them uneducated and therefore on welfare forever. Genx87 is thus secretly for a massive welfare system. In his mind, welfare for life is better than a few bucks for education. He'll never admit it, but that is the only result his goals would achieve.

 

[TheSlamma]

I think they should just change the term "Neo-conservative" to what Lewis Black said "Piggy Piggy F*** Piggy Piggy"

There is nothing conservative about these people anymore, cept their want to follow an old book full of racist/sexest/hypocritical fables.