Republican voters don’t care about Trump’s corruption — and here’s why

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,853
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Remember when Clinton getting totally legal speaking fees showed she was corrupt? Now the NYT unearths that Trump was engaged in massive tax fraud to launder (tens? Hundreds of?) millions and they don’t care.

The reason, as always, is tribalism. Whoever the next Democratic president is will face a Republican Party suddenly interested in corruption again who will claim they ‘lost their way’ in 2016.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
> Democratic voters are also highly partisan, but don't seem to have nearly the same tolerance for immoral behavior being conducted in their name.

selective memory at it's finest

> Barack Obama did not put an accused sexual predator on the Supreme Court after that person repeatedly lied under oath

Bill Clinton was an accused sexual predator that repeatedly lied under oath
Bill Clinton was an accused sexual predator. He was impeached and disbarred for lying under oath about cheating.
Donald Trump was an ADMITTED sexual predator, no consequences
Donald Trump was an accused sexual assaulter, no consequences
Donald Trump was an accused rapist. Accused under sworn deposition who then told a different story.

Not the same thing.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
Remember when Clinton getting totally legal speaking fees showed she was corrupt? Now the NYT unearths that Trump was engaged in massive tax fraud to launder (tens? Hundreds of?) millions and they don’t care.

The reason, as always, is tribalism. Whoever the next Democratic president is will face a Republican Party suddenly interested in corruption again who will claim they ‘lost their way’ in 2016.
We need to get this changed to a permanent sticky. Once Trump is out of office and Dems take over committees when Republicans start bitching about corruption and the behavior of Democrats just write a "goto" statement back to the sticky and move on.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
The irony is strong in this thread.

The point is that the defense of illegal activity relies on comparisons to not illegal things (a screwed up relationship with Willy and Monica), non-existant issues (Benghazi, pizza parlor, etc.) or simply feelings that Dems are evil. Those things are used to justify the real illegal activities of Trump.
Except Clinton stood credibly accused of some of the same things as Trump and Kavanaugh, but was found not guilty by the Senate because Democrat Senators stood by him...some of them are still in the Senate. They have no high ground to stand on.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
The short answer is, a sick one. Donny is not even close to resembling anything remotely being normal.

I have two daughters, and while I believe they are both beautiful young women, I have never been able to see them as sexual creatures. I guess it's just a dad thing.

Every time I talk to a Trumpanzee, at least a male one, I always say, "with everything that you know about Donald Trump, would you trust him to pick up your 17-year-old daughter from cheerleading practice?" Invariably, they get pissed, and end the conversation, or they begin to see him in a new light. Because character matters.

I wouldn't let the orange bastard within 100 yards of any female in my family tree.

And if I can channel Mr. T for a moment, "I pity the fool that tries to grab one of my little girls by the pussy!"
The sad thing is Trump supporters in this forum would either ignore it, excuse it or accuse you of begin deranged.

Hey you Trump people want someone like him in your personal life? Maybe a spouse, S.O.? Children have been taught in this country to be proud of their President. Can you let your children watch uncensored Trump? Can you tell your kids this guy represents the ideals the Untied States strives to live by?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
So you see no difference between adultery and incest?

What ever blows your skirt up.

Fortunately for society, the law does see a difference.

And to answer your question Chuckles, Republicant Presidents that have cheated in the Oval Office include, Lincoln, Chester A. Arthur (21st), Warren G. Harding(29th) and a few others.

The only one marginally deserving of a pass, would be President Arthur, since he was a widower at the time, so technically his sex in the office can't actually be counted as adultery.
There is an obvious difference. I have no problem saying Trump, Kavanaugh, Weinstein and Clinton all spring from a similar well of misogynist entitlement, even if there is differentiation between their respective actions and lies.

I don’t understand why Democrats feel compelled to carry water for the Clintons.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,907
136
Except Clinton stood credibly accused of some of the same things as Trump and Kavanaugh, but was found not guilty by the Senate because Democrat Senators stood by him...some of them are still in the Senate. They have no high ground to stand on.
He was found not guilty because the Senators and the majority of the country said lying about an affair does not represent a high crime and misdemeanor against the United States.

Trump lying about his affair with Stormy doesn't either. If Dems take over the House that will not be an article of impeachment.

Unless I'm missing something sounds consistent to me
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
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136
I always said IT"S ALL ABOUT THE Supreme Court , or control of.
Republicans HATE abortion yet.... they refuse to address or have any sympathy when that baby is raised in poverty.
Not all young teens and young adults have a mommy and daddy to run to for financial help or to provide a roof over their head and over the head of that baby which republicans insist that MUST BE BORN, NEVER ABORTED.

In iOwa, their governor (a republican, naturally) supports a bill to insist a life starts when the fetus has a heart beat.
That's all good and well, YET.....
That same governor cuts education, cuts healthcare, cuts daycare and raised the qualifying poverty level to get daycare so kids were cut off of daycare.
And these mothers had to quit their work to stay home with their kid, both in poverty.
Their love for that unborn and their distaste for that same child once out of the womb is nauseating.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
They diehard to ban abortion THEN diehard to cut the safety nets.

So.... abortion is a large part of it and that is directly connected to control of the US Supreme Court. Another part is forcing the entire LGBT community back into the closet by removing their rights.
They HATE that two men can marry, legally. That drives them absolutely CRAZY.

And the last part, these people that love Donald Trump are indeed followers in a cult.
I've said that over and over, and last week Bill Maher said it too, that Donald Trump is a cult and his followers cult members.
Why do conservative insist we live by their OPINION on when life begins? That question has not been resolved by a plurality of scientists. Why don't we commission a study to answer that very question? No politicians, no clergy, no uninformed layman.

Meanwhile using the standard of viability outside the womb is a reasonable compromise when legislation is considered until that question is answered. Good news for pro life people that number has continued to get smaller during our lifetimes.

Remember the last time politicians got into a real time fight on viable life and tried to insert their opinion into a family decision? It was Terry Schivo. I won't tell give you details and how it ended. You people need to read for yourselves, especially "pro life" people.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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There is an obvious difference. I have no problem saying Trump, Kavanaugh, Weinstein and Clinton all spring from a similar well of misogynist entitlement, even if there is differentiation between their respective actions and lies.

I don’t understand why Democrats feel compelled to carry water for the Clintons.

That's because you routinely engage in the same bothsiderism mentioned in the OP.

What happens when we set aside the sexual imbroglios? A whole different picture emerges, of course, one that conservative voters really can't examine squarely. We get Sessions lying in his confirmation hearings. We get the same from Kavanaugh. We get Tom Price, Scott Pruitt, Ryan Zinke, Wilbur Ross & a host of other people with highly questionable motives. We get tax cuts for the Rich & cuts to social programs that vulnerable people depend upon. We get massive deficits. We get massive fuckovers in immigration. We get regulatory rollbacks when business & stockholders are obviously doing just fine w/o them.

We get what really is a top down looting spree of class warfare against the American People. But y'all seem just fine with it, cuz Bill's cigar, Hilary's Wall St speeches, Benghazi, Pizzagate, Jade Helm, Sharia Law & an opportunity to chant lock her up, again. The GOP has accomplished the ultimate form of corruption in the thinking processes of their voters.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
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One count of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice. Not one Democrat Senator found him guilty. Not one. Some of those Senators are still in the Senate.
Let's go back twenty years to find one Democrat lieing about consensual sex! See it doesn't matter now what Trump does, something minor happened with a Democrat 20+ years ago and he was punished for it!
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
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Let's go back twenty years to find one Democrat lieing about consensual sex! See it doesn't matter now what Trump does, something minor happened with a Democrat 20+ years ago and he was punished for it!
Let’s pretend its ancient history to rationalize hypocrisy
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
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Republicans have convinced themselves that Democrats are dirty, so they feel entitled to be even dirtier

Amanda Marcotte
October 12, 2018 7:05pm (UTC)


The past couple of weeks of the news have served up a hefty reminder not just of the deep corruption of Donald Trump, but of the entire Republican Party. On top of the headline-dominating story about Republicans ignoring all sorts of ethical concerns to place Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court, there was also a blockbuster New York Times report showing that Trump amassed his massive fortune not through hard work or business acumen, but old-fashioned tax fraud and corruption. Meanwhile, there's a pileup of stories indicating that Republicans intend to shore up their prospects in the November midterms through blatant and racist cheating, using a series of Jim Crow-style strategies to keep black and Native American voters from the polls in November.

To add to this already disturbing situation, there's the shady behavior Trump is displaying around the disappearance and likely murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post columnist who has run afoul of Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia and big buddy of presidential son-in-law Jared Kushner. Saudi Arabia is widely believed to be behind the attack, but Trump — who himself is overtly hostile to the free pressseems reluctant to do anything about the situation, citing his unwillingness to spike an arms deal with Saudi Arabia. It's a stance made even more disturbing by the fact that arms deal isn't even real, but more like a fantasy unlikely to come to fruition. There is also reason to believe that Trump is personally enriching himself off the Saudi government, which likely factors into his decision-making.

Despite all this, in a story that's become all too predictable, Trump's approval ratings don't budge, lingering a few percentage points north or south of 40 percent. He's not popular and never has been, but it's clear that the 40 percent of voters who love him really do not care if he's a crook. And despite the GOP's widespread corruption, FiveThirtyEight still gives the party a four-in-five chance of holding a Senate majority in the midterm elections.

It's easy to chalk off this widespread indifference to criminality and corruption among Republican voters as evidence that such voters are themselves amoral. But that reading is overly simplistic. It's highly unlikely that 40 percent of the country thinks it's no big deal to cheat or steal or lie under oath or shrug off a murder likely ordered by your son-in-law's friend. Nor is it satisfying to simply blame partisanship. Democratic voters are also highly partisan, but don't seem to have nearly the same tolerance for immoral behavior being conducted in their name.

Instead, the likeliest reason for this willingness of Republican voters to indulge all sorts of wicked behavior in pursuit of power is that they've convinced themselves that the "other side" does it just as much. It's an attitude called "what-about-ism," and it allows Republican voters to tell themselves that their side can be as shady and corrupt as they want to be, because Democrats do it, too.

Of course, the fly in that particular ointment is that Democrats do not, in fact, do it too. Barack Obama did not put an accused sexual predator on the Supreme Court after that person repeatedly lied under oath, nor did he shrug it off when an American journalist was killed because he happened to be fond of the alleged murderer. Democrats are not trying to steal elections through widespread cheating. Hillary Clinton was no tax fraud and was able to prove it by releasing her tax returns, something Trump continues to refuse to do.

This disparity, I think, points to one reason why conspiracy theories tend to proliferate more on the right than the left. In the absence of real corruption and crime among Democrats or leftists, conservatives instead rely on conspiracy theories to justify their continued belief that Democrats are just as corrupt as Republicans, if not more so.

If one believes, for instance, that Obama faked his birth certificate to evade citizenship requirements to be in the Oval Office — as a solid majority of Republicans suspect — then the fact that Trump is a tax fraud doesn't seem so unusual or objectionable. If one buys into the theory that the Clintons had former White House lawyer Vince Foster murdered back in the 1990s, then Trump's shady attitude about the murder of Khashoggi pales in comparison. And while it's basically impossible to follow what, exactly, Republicans are getting at with their Benghazi obsession, they've using that fake conspiracy theory to minimize real concerns about Trump's possible role in Russia's criminal interference with the U.S. election.

No wonder Trump continually leads his rallies with chants of "lock her up," in reference to the many Clinton crimes alleged by conspiracy theorists that do not exist in real life. The more the crowds insist that Clinton is a criminal, the easier it is for them to justify voting for Trump, who has admitted to sexual assault on tape, has committed what the New York Times deemed tax fraud, and may be implicated in the Russian interference in our election.

The conspiracy theory defense was on display during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings. Kavanaugh, after all, was accused of a very serious crime — attempted rape — and lying under oath to cover it up. Rather than deal with that, however, conservatives turned to finger-pointing, starting with Kavanaugh himself — in a written statement that can't be written off as heated language under pressure — claiming that the sexual assault accusations from multiple women were some kind of plot to get "revenge on behalf of the Clintons."


Kavanaugh then used this alleged plot, which almost certainly doesn't exist, to imply that he and other conservatives were entitled to do all sorts of unethical things in response, saying the "whole country will reap the whirlwind."

Donald Trump was right when he gave that infamous speech declaring that he could "shoot somebody" in broad daylight without losing voters. In the right-wing imagination, Democrats do evil things, even commit murder, on a regular basis and get away with it. So too many conservatives have convinced themselves that it's only fair to let Trump get away with similar things, even though the bad things he's doing are all too real and not from the realm of fevered conspiracy theory.



Pretty much on point with the both sides defense.. sums up the last 2 years here in P&N.. no matter how much proof we show.. they just don't fucking care.
Republican party, projection be thy name.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
136
The irony is strong in this thread.

The point is that the defense of illegal activity relies on comparisons to not illegal things (a screwed up relationship with Willy and Monica), non-existant issues (Benghazi, pizza parlor, etc.) or simply feelings that Dems are evil. Those things are used to justify the real illegal activities of Trump.
Hey it's bukeyballs thing. Never, never,ever let an opportunity to change everything to but the Clintons. I knew from the Op title he would be monopolizing the posts.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Let's look at reality here. The options were Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. Those are the two people that the American voters put in place in which one would win the presidency. America obviously doesn't care about shady dealings here.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
Let’s pretend its ancient history to rationalize hypocrisy
He shouldn't have lied about it and he was disbarred. He had also never been elected to anything since it came out that he lied about having a consensual affair once.

Now, can we please talk about all the insane levels of corruption in the Trump white house that go far beyond who sucked his dick. Let's not forget he too committed multiple felonies to cover up multiple affairs and has lied non-stop about it.

Will you at least please stop lieing saying you were pro-bernie when it is obvious to everyone you are a trumper. No one that actually agreed with Bernie would ever be pro-trump.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
Let's look at reality here. The options were Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. Those are the two people that the American voters put in place in which one would win the presidency. America obviously doesn't care about shady dealings here.
Or the difference in real shady dealings and make believe ones.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
136
Let's look at reality here. The options were Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. Those are the two people that the American voters put in place in which one would win the presidency. America obviously doesn't care about shady dealings here.
Spell out Clinton dirty dealings in detail. With links to convictions.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Let's look at reality here. The options were Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. Those are the two people that the American voters put in place in which one would win the presidency. America obviously doesn't care about shady dealings here.

Both Sides! And completely ridiculous. The Crooked Hillary! propaganda really got to you, huh? Putin's boys are very proud of the work they've done to create millions of headsets just like yours. You exemplify exactly what the OP is talking about.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
That's because you routinely engage in the same bothsiderism mentioned in the OP.

What happens when we set aside the sexual imbroglios? A whole different picture emerges, of course, one that conservative voters really can't examine squarely. We get Sessions lying in his confirmation hearings. We get the same from Kavanaugh. We get Tom Price, Scott Pruitt, Ryan Zinke, Wilbur Ross & a host of other people with highly questionable motives. We get tax cuts for the Rich & cuts to social programs that vulnerable people depend upon. We get massive deficits. We get massive fuckovers in immigration. We get regulatory rollbacks when business & stockholders are obviously doing just fine w/o them.

We get what really is a top down looting spree of class warfare against the American People. But y'all seem just fine with it, cuz Bill's cigar, Hilary's Wall St speeches, Benghazi, Pizzagate, Jade Helm, Sharia Law & an opportunity to chant lock her up, again. The GOP has accomplished the ultimate form of corruption in the thinking processes of their voters.
You are getting better at covering all the obligatory whataboutism talking points.

Complaints of bothsiderism is intellectual laziness. The Democrats don’t get a pass because the GOP has gone off the cliff in its support of Trump. Maybe if the Democrats weren’t hypocrites, they would have a leg to stand on instead of screaming into their echo chambers.

I’ve lived the majority of my life under either Albany or Sacramento, so Democrats have had more of an impact on my daily life than the GOP. What I see is crumbling infrastructure, failing schools, underfunded pensions, rampant drug abuse problem, homelessness, wage disparity and a decline of the middle class...sprinkled with a generous helping of corruption, cronyism and hypocrisy.

Rationalizing and excusing Clinton is what paved the road for Trump.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
He shouldn't have lied about it and he was disbarred. He had also never been elected to anything since it came out that he lied about having a consensual affair once.
I don’t understand the cult like devotion to the Clintons.

Now, can we please talk about all the insane levels of corruption in the Trump white house that go far beyond who sucked his dick. Let's not forget he too committed multiple felonies to cover up multiple affairs and has lied non-stop about it.
No one is stopping you from talking about Trump.

Will you at least please stop lieing saying you were pro-bernie when it is obvious to everyone you are a trumper. No one that actually agreed with Bernie would ever be pro-trump.
I don’t need to lie. I support Sanders and still do on many issues. I don’t have to agree with him on everything to recognize he injected a much needed and credible voice. He gained my support because he gained my trust.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
People that voted for Crooked Hillary complaining about potential corruption with Trump. Delicious irony.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You are getting better at covering all the obligatory whataboutism talking points.

Complaints of bothsiderism is intellectual laziness. The Democrats don’t get a pass because the GOP has gone off the cliff in its support of Trump. Maybe if the Democrats weren’t hypocrites, they would have a leg to stand on instead of screaming into their echo chambers.

I’ve lived the majority of my life under either Albany or Sacramento, so Democrats have had more of an impact on my daily life than the GOP. What I see is crumbling infrastructure, failing schools, underfunded pensions, rampant drug abuse problem, homelessness, wage disparity and a decline of the middle class...sprinkled with a generous helping of corruption, cronyism and hypocrisy.

Rationalizing and excusing Clinton is what paved the road for Trump.

It's called trickle down economics, basically national policy from Reagan forward. States have limited ability to deal with it. If you think those problems are ugly in CA & NY you need to check out Red America. Job Creator activity has really worked 'em over, but, well, Dems are just as bad, so vote from the feelz. Cuz God, guns, gays, trans, abortion, illegals & all the rest are what matters, not the financial elite robbing us blind.

Corruption occurs at a multiplicity of levels, particularly in the thinking of GOP voters.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,040
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If you were to plot the Clintons on a scale of corruption and lies, they sit closer to Nixon, Bush, Ted Kennedy and Trump (unethical politicians) than they do Carter, Obama and Eisenhower (ethical politcians).

One change I'd make is to seperate Trump from the rest. Trump is a category of grotesquerie unto himself.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,117
14,484
146
He shouldn't have lied about it and he was disbarred. He had also never been elected to anything since it came out that he lied about having a consensual affair once.

Now, can we please talk about all the insane levels of corruption in the Trump white house that go far beyond who sucked his dick. Let's not forget he too committed multiple felonies to cover up multiple affairs and has lied non-stop about it.

Will you at least please stop lieing saying you were pro-bernie when it is obvious to everyone you are a trumper. No one that actually agreed with Bernie would ever be pro-trump.

Oh. Sure. Let’s just go after Trump while glossing over Clinton. And whatabout Henry VIII destroying the church and murding his wives. Democrats want to ignore that to go after some fake news about Trumps taxes. ;)
 
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