Republican EPA chiefs to Congress: Act on climate

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republican-epa-chiefs-congress-act-climate-151508267--finance.html

Looks like past Republican EPA chiefs have been drinking the climate-change Kool Aid. How else to explain their support for the EPA's proposed new rules for reducing C02 emissions by power plants? I think most telling is this statement by William Ruckelshaus:

Inherent in all of these problems was uncertain science and powerful economic interests resisting controls. The same is true of climate change," said Ruckelshaus, who also led the agency under Reagan. "In all of the cases cited, the solutions to the problems did not result in the predicted economic and social calamity.

I'm sure our resident climate-change deniers can explain to us who, exactly, has been bribing these ex-EPA chiefs to shamelessly lie in front of Congress.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republican-epa-chiefs-congress-act-climate-151508267--finance.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Top environmental regulators for four Republican presidents told Congress on Wednesday what many Republican lawmakers won't: Action is needed on global warming.

In a congressional hearing organized to undermine Republican opposition to President Barack Obama's environmental proposals, Senate Democrats asked the heads of the Environmental Protection Agency for Richard Nixon, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan to discuss the risks from climate change and what should be done about it. Some Republicans dispute the science of climate change and have worked to unravel Obama's steps to address it.

Action on Capitol Hill — where even a bland, bipartisan energy efficiency bill couldn't get passed in May — has been in a deep freeze.

"We have a scientific consensus around this issue. We also need a political consensus," said Christine Todd Whitman, the former New Jersey Governor and first EPA administrator under President George W. Bush, who resigned her post after disagreeing with the White House's direction on pollution rules.

Whitman was joined by William Ruckelshaus, the nation's first EPA administrator under President Richard Nixon, William Reilly, who led the EPA under President George H.W. Bush, and Lee Thomas, who was administrator under Reagan.

The strategy by Democrats was reminiscent of other high-profile hearings on climate change that created fanfare but resulted in little action. In March, Democrats staged an all-nighter on the Senate floor to talk climate change. In 2009, former Vice President Al Gore and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich sparred before a House committee over climate change. Climate scientist James Hansen in 1988 told the Senate the planet is warming and pollution is to blame.

The EPA chiefs' testimony apparently did little to bridge the divide. Coal miners packed the hearing to protest a new EPA plan to cut carbon dioxide pollution from power plants. Before any testimony, top Republicans on the Senate environmental panel said the rule would kill jobs for no environmental benefit.

That view contrasted sharply with the opinions of the four EPA administrators, who said the Obama administration had worked hard to make the proposal flexible and workable, using authority provided by Congress.

The former EPA administrators told lawmakers that global warming was similar to other serious environmental issues they confronted, such as industrial pollution, dangerous pesticides or water contamination. But tackling those issues enjoyed broad public support.

"Inherent in all of these problems was uncertain science and powerful economic interests resisting controls. The same is true of climate change," said Ruckelshaus, who also led the agency under Reagan. "In all of the cases cited, the solutions to the problems did not result in the predicted economic and social calamity."

The four EPA chiefs also said that they are not alone in the Republican party.

"There are Republicans that believe the climate is changing and humans have a role to play. They just need some political cover," said Whitman, in an interview before the hearing.

Reilly was even more direct.

"There is a lot happening on climate," he said, citing efforts by states and corporations to tackle the problem. "It's just not happening in Washington."
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
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I hate to point this out....

But them saying that previous laws haven't resulted in economic calamity is pretty disingenuous. There is a reason it's more expensive to make things in the US, and only one part of that is pay scales. Electroplating, circuit fab, and other high-end businesses can't be profitable here because of the scale of nasty shit they put out to make motherboards and LCD panels and the like.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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Fine with me. Please do make energy more expensive in the name of fighting "climate change," there's already too many people on the roads as it is and the poors can just walk. Most of them are obese anyway and can use the exercise.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
making things more expensive, just part of the liberal plan to put everyone on welfare dependent on government and democrats.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
25,174
22,269
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Four posts in to get michal's obligatory liberal rant. Surprised he didn't call these folks who served GOP administrations RINOs.
 

himkhan

Senior member
Jul 13, 2013
665
370
136
making things more expensive, just part of the liberal plan to put everyone on welfare dependent on government and democrats.

making things less expensive, just part of the conservative plan to...... oh wait a minute...... oops :rolleyes:
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
32,946
7,016
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Republican... Democrat, you try to tell me there's a difference but they come together on important issues, taking sides against the people. Neocons love the idea of dictating policy to the little folks via a top down administration of taxes.

They probably have stock in companies that benefit.

NOTHING anyone says changes the fact of the pause, which demonstrates the overwhelming power of natural variability, which gives credit to the PDO and AMO. Once those are accounted for there is no reason to reduce CO2. As will be proven in the next 6 years.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
71,776
5,851
126
This is one of those issues where the defective brains of conservatives threaten the welfare of life on earth and they can't figure out why thinking people hold them in utter contempt, their fate to be reviled down through history as the cause of so much human misery.

And all these filthy brain dead conservative assholes will be able, thanks again to their fucking gift of rationalization, to leave this earth at their appointed times, in perfect shameless peace, completely oblivious to the hideousness of their mental disease.

And so, for the rest of us, those who can see, and all who will pay the price, let me just say fuck you for what your defective brains will do to your own children out of your need to protect your worthless egos. You will cause exactly what you fear, to be hold in utter contempt by those whose love you seek.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
This is one of those issues where the defective brains of conservatives threaten the welfare of life on earth and they can't figure out why thinking people hold them in utter contempt, their fate to be reviled down through history as the cause of so much human misery.

And all these filthy brain dead conservative assholes will be able, thanks again to their fucking gift of rationalization, to leave this earth at their appointed times, in perfect shameless peace, completely oblivious to the hideousness of their mental disease.

And so, for the rest of us, those who can see, and all who will pay the price, let me just say fuck you for what your defective brains will do to your own children out of your need to protect your worthless egos. You will cause exactly what you fear, to be hold in utter contempt by those whose love you seek.

I read this, and thought to myself: "I'm going to take the long route driving to work tomorrow just to piss off Moonbeam a little more wasting gasoline & contributing to global warming!"

:)

I'll throw a few dollars at someone to plant a tree for me. Used to be able to buy carbon credits from people on ebay, wonder if those businesses are still there...

Will all the carbon emissions attributed to those who make frequent trips throughout Europe, I've got a shit-ton of polluting to do to catch up to the liberal level. Might take the extra-long route to work! With the A/C full blast, of course.
 
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MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
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Republican... Democrat, you try to tell me there's a difference but they come together on important issues, taking sides against the people. Neocons love the idea of dictating policy to the little folks via a top down administration of taxes.

They probably have stock in companies that benefit.

NOTHING anyone says changes the fact of the pause, which demonstrates the overwhelming power of natural variability, which gives credit to the PDO and AMO. Once those are accounted for there is no reason to reduce CO2. As will be proven in the next 6 years.


Uh except for that little problem we're having with the oceans.

http://www.princeton.edu/grandchallenges/energy/research-highlights/ocean-acidification/

http://www.whoi.edu/main/topic/ocean-acidification

ALso, http://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...omment-page-2/?wpmp_switcher=mobile&wpmp_tp=3
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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Personally, I believe there are going to be further problems as our environment continues to change. But, (1) it saddens me when I see my full-on Republican-hating liberal friends not care an ounce about their own personal pollution of the environment, or even that massive energy consumer that is Al Gore, and (2) it is a guilty pleasure to poke liberals who are enraged. I'm not under any delusion I have any sway with the politicians in D.C., if I have some fun with the subject so be it.

:)

I do get a kick out of articles and arguments targeted against Republicans and conservatives, how they feel like they have obtained their all-powerful trump card when they've stumbled upon any detail that can link to Reagan. Your God LIED to you!
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
71,776
5,851
126
Personally, I believe there are going to be further problems as our environment continues to change. But, (1) it saddens me when I see my full-on Republican-hating liberal friends not care an ounce about their own personal pollution of the environment, or even that massive energy consumer that is Al Gore, and (2) it is a guilty pleasure to poke liberals who are enraged. I'm not under any delusion I have any sway with the politicians in D.C., if I have some fun with the subject so be it.

:)

I do get a kick out of articles and arguments targeted against Republicans and conservatives, how they feel like they have obtained their all-powerful trump card when they've stumbled upon any detail that can link to Reagan. Your God LIED to you!
In everything I do I try to be ecologically friendly and thoughtful of others, from the care I try to extend to the property of others, to the water and electricity I use, even down to not using towels, etc. I try to be thankful and tip people well. I drive easy on the throttle and have a somewhat Eco- friendly diesel car set on Eco mode. I don't leave garbage behind.

Naturally none of this is perfect and I am not ashamed to be alive but I try as I can to be thankful and modest. Many people, I am sure, do a much better job than me. What I can add is hat I don't vote for conservatives because, for one reason among many, they block measures that are environmentally beneficial.

That is my complaint about conservative voters.
 

Angry Irishman

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2010
1,883
1
81
This is one of those issues where the defective brains of conservatives threaten the welfare of life on earth and they can't figure out why thinking people hold them in utter contempt, their fate to be reviled down through history as the cause of so much human misery.

And all these filthy brain dead conservative assholes will be able, thanks again to their fucking gift of rationalization, to leave this earth at their appointed times, in perfect shameless peace, completely oblivious to the hideousness of their mental disease.

And so, for the rest of us, those who can see, and all who will pay the price, let me just say fuck you for what your defective brains will do to your own children out of your need to protect your worthless egos. You will cause exactly what you fear, to be hold in utter contempt by those whose love you seek.

That's a bunch of bat shit crazy run on sentences.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
EPA people (or former EPA people) support more EPA control and power. Truly shocking, news at 11!

Love this line:
Top environmental regulators for four Republican presidents told Congress on Wednesday what many Republican lawmakers won't: Action is needed on global warming.
So, we're back to the same drivel that got us the ACA disaster: "we have to do something! no matter how stupid or useless, we just need to do something!".

Still waiting for some plan that actually has a chance to address the (alleged) problem. Not just some vague plan of handing money and power to government and lefty eco-kook groups and then trusting that they'll fix it, an actual plan.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
So, we're back to the same drivel that got us the ACA disaster: "we have to do something! no matter how stupid or useless, we just need to do something!".

Still waiting for some plan that actually has a chance to address the (alleged) problem. Not just some vague plan of handing money and power to government and lefty eco-kook groups and then trusting that they'll fix it, an actual plan.
You've nailed it. Do we decide we're powerless against this government onslaught or not? That question is going to become more important as time goes on.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
Repulsivan, dumasscrap makes no difference to me. These elitist pigs perpetually foist their will on us and either exempt themselves from that will or just flaunt their going against it. They howl and yowl about how we're all gonna die if we don't act on climate change, but they live the high-rolling, jetset lifestyles; then they have the gall to blame us, and our excesses, for ruining the planet. There are a good many on here that rail against Christian conservatives when their immoral lifestyle gets exposed, and I don't blame them. I'll take climate change seriously when it's evangelists practice what they preach.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
82,053
44,851
136
Repulsivan, dumasscrap makes no difference to me. These elitist pigs perpetually foist their will on us and either exempt themselves from that will or just flaunt their going against it. They howl and yowl about how we're all gonna die if we don't act on climate change, but they live the high-rolling, jetset lifestyles; then they have the gall to blame us, and our excesses, for ruining the planet. There are a good many on here that rail against Christian conservatives when their immoral lifestyle gets exposed, and I don't blame them. I'll take climate change seriously when it's evangelists practice what they preach.

Don't you think it's strange to base your acceptance of overwhelming scientific evidence on whether or not politicians live nice lives?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
44,689
30,026
136
Still waiting for some plan that actually has a chance to address the (alleged) problem. Not just some vague plan of handing money and power to government and lefty eco-kook groups and then trusting that they'll fix it, an actual plan.

Solar (PV and CSP with storage), Wind, and nuclear backed by tax credits, loan guarantees, and other incentives. Mandate the shift to PHEV for new cars by ratcheting up fuel efficiency standards further. Require trucking fleets to switch to ng/hybrid (depending on application) over a certain period of time and railroads electrify to their infrastructure via similar incentives. Spend more money on mass transit.

All of that is doable without even talking about a carbon tax.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
82,053
44,851
136
How deluded does someone need to be to think that we don't already have loads of plans for how to combat climate change?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,309
1,209
126
How deluded does someone need to be to think that we don't already have loads of plans for how to combat climate change?

Yes because man has the power to manage the climate of an entire fucking planet. Rolling on the floor laughing my fucking ass off at the unbridled arrogance and hubris. But but but but...... my MODEL says I can.......
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
82,053
44,851
136
Yes because man has the power to manage the climate of an entire fucking planet. Rolling on the floor laughing my fucking ass off at the unbridled arrogance and hubris. But but but but...... my MODEL says I can.......

No, man has the power to manage their own effects on the climate of an entire planet.

I would laugh at your continued embrace of ignorance but really climate denialists just make me sad and bewildered. Why do people ignore science that they find inconvenient?
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Solar (PV and CSP with storage), Wind, and nuclear backed by tax credits, loan guarantees, and other incentives. Mandate the shift to PHEV for new cars by ratcheting up fuel efficiency standards further. Require trucking fleets to switch to ng/hybrid (depending on application) over a certain period of time and railroads electrify to their infrastructure via similar incentives. Spend more money on mass transit.

All of that is doable without even talking about a carbon tax.

Those things also cost money, there is a price tag for this stuff. Increased costs hurts the economy. I haven't seen anything to show that those steps would have any discernible impact on the global climate as a whole. Isn't that the ultimate goal? Any plan needs to have measurable goals and evidence to show how we achieve the goals (whatever they are) if we implement the plan. So if we do a cost benefit analysis, we'd see costs (hits to the economy, making our economy less competitive on the global market, fewer consumer choices, more government interference in the market), but what is the ultimate benefit? Can anyone demonstrate the ultimate benefit?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
34,542
26,826
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No, man has the power to manage their own effects on the climate of an entire planet.

I would laugh at your continued embrace of ignorance but really climate denialists just make me sad and bewildered. Why do people ignore science that they find inconvenient?
They need to feel special. Like they've found the hidden truth that the masses are unaware of.