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Republican/conservative healthcare alternative still MIA 5 yrs later

First

Lifer
http://theweek.com/articles/572563/...-rubio-dont-want-know-about-health-care-plans

What Scott Walker and Marco Rubio don't want you to know about their health care plans

Republicans have faced a real health care problem for many years now, which is that health care just isn't their thing.

It's one of those "mommy" issues that liberals care about, while conservatives are much more likely to be interested in topics like tax policy or national defense. Yet throughout the Obama years, they've had to act like they both care about and understand the substance of this issue, when apart from a few conservative wonks here and there, they'd really rather spend their time on other things.

And after telling voters for years that ObamaCare has transformed America into a hellish communist nightmare, the ones running for president have to present something that resembles a health care plan. They've always said their goal was to "repeal and replace" the Affordable Care Act, even though they never got very far into the "replace" part; when Donald Trump said he'd replace it with "something terrific," he was offering about as much specificity as most Republicans have to this point.

But this week, two Republican candidates, Scott Walker and Marco Rubio, have presented their plans, and more are sure to come. Walker's comes in the form of a pdf, so you know it's serious, while Rubio's is (so far) just an op-ed in Politico. But both of them hail from another planet, where all the Republican predictions about how awful the ACA would be turned out to be true (unlike this planet, where just about everything Republicans predicted was wrong), and switching to a newer, crueler system would be no problem at all.

There's a lot wrong with both of their ideas, but what's most striking is how they ignore the fact that doing what they propose would be an enormous upheaval in health care, more so than the implementation of the ACA itself was.

Both start by repealing the Affordable Care Act in its entirety, which is what you have to say if you're a Republican, but which is also vastly more complex than they're willing to admit. A sensible Republican might say, "Let's remove provisions A, B, and C, then add provisions X, Y, and Z." The only reason they don't is that they have to bow down at the altar of "repeal."

For instance, the ACA made a number of reforms to Medicare, including incentives for providers to move away from a fee-for-service model, which encourages lots of spending, and toward a model that pays them for keeping the patient healthy, reducing hospital readmissions, and so on. Do Republicans dislike this? I've never heard any of them say so — but since it was part of ObamaCare, it has to go.

Which means that all those providers that have spent a couple of years changing how they operate would now have to change back. The millions of people who are now on Medicaid because of the law's expansion of the program would immediately lose their insurance. The millions who got coverage through the health care exchanges would probably also lose their coverage, because the exchanges would cease operating, and the plans that insurance companies designed with the ACA's regulations in mind would likely be eliminated. Those who rely on the ACA's subsidies would, under both Walker and Rubio, get a tax credit — but in many cases one less generous than the subsidy they're getting now, making insurance unaffordable again.

That's not to mention the fact that both would transition Medicare from what it is now — one of the most successful social programs in American history, beloved by its beneficiaries, with an iron-clad guarantee of coverage for all — into a voucher (or "premium support") program, where the government would give seniors some money and they'd do their best to get covered by private insurers, with no guarantee they could get coverage or that they could afford it.

Which leads me to my favorite line in Walker's plan: "Unlike the disruption caused by ObamaCare, my plan would allow for a smooth, easy transition into a better health care system." Piece of cake! I'd just toss tens of millions of people off their current insurance, eliminate the health care exchanges, roll back a whole series of payment reforms in Medicare that are already changing the way doctors and hospitals operate (for the better), force young people off their parents' policies, and completely transform Medicare for the worse. It'll be smooth and easy.

Walker and Rubio's plans contain some things that are perfectly fine (like wellness programs), a bunch of terrible zombie right-wing ideas (like limiting people's ability to sue for medical malpractice), and things that have been proven to fail (like high-risk pools for people with pre-existing conditions). They also have provisions that could dramatically increase costs for consumers, like Rubio's plan to wind down the tax deductibility of employer-sponsored insurance. But more than anything else, they're hampered by their refusal to deal with the world as it is right now.

In the Republican fantasy world, the rate of uninsured hasn't fallen dramatically (it has), the cost of the ACA is outrageous (it is projected to cost far less than originally thought), everyone who got insurance through an exchange hates their coverage (those people are actually more likely to be satisfied than people with employer-based plans), the ACA caused premiums and health care spending to skyrocket (just the opposite has occurred on both counts), and the law ground job creation to a halt (job creation has been excellent since the law took effect).

If Republicans could accept that reality, they'd be able to say, "OK, but this law still has some problems, so let's figure out how to fix them." If they said that, they'd get agreement from the other side, because there are no Democrats who would deny that the ACA can be improved. But that's not possible, because Republicans have convinced themselves that improving the law is tantamount to collaboration with the enemy. Instead, it's better to cry "Repeal!" and stage another 50 failed congressional votes to do so.

This is the place the candidates' health care plans come from. I suspect they know what they're offering is a joke. But now if anyone asks they can say they have a "plan." Just don't bother asking what would happen if it were to actually be implemented.

The part about the right not being able to deal with the overwhelming success of ACA on all fronts is the crux of the issue; increased # of insured, lower premiums growth, much lower projected costs due to Medicare reforms and no private sector job killing anywhere to be seen. Until they deal with those realities, it's impossible to improve ACA. It would be so nice to just move on from the failed predictions, it's all boring bullshit bluster.

Frankly, though, I'm ready to move onto single payer already.
 
GOP’s Obamacare replacement nightmare: Even Scott Walker is a RINO squish now

Read all about it: http://www.salon.com/2015/08/19/gop...tmare_even_scott_walker_is_a_rino_squish_now/

In a statement, Jindal slammed Walker for putting forth a plan that spends money to help people afford health insurance — something that cannot be tolerated if America is ever to recover her glorious freedoms.

In Governor Walker’s plan, a new entitlement is created for every single American human being from the time they are born right up until they grow old and become eligible for Medicare. It is frankly shocking that a Republican candidate for President would author a cradle to grave plan like this.

Governor Walker has taken the bait laid out for him by the President, and has accepted the notion that we need a new federal government entitlement program, and now he is merely quibbling over the details. So here we are again, not standing on free market principles, but rather, establishing ourselves as “cheaper Democrats.” . . . Surely we as Republicans have more courage than this.

Jindal goes on to call Walker’s plan “Obamacare lite,” and also asks, dramatically, “When did conservatism die?” Ha! Good q.

It's funny.. the party is eating itself alive over Obamacare.
 
So you start a thread saying the Repubs have no HC proposals and then go on to discuss their HC proposals?

Fern

Rubio's healthcare plan is a Politico op-ed and Walker's is a 3-page PDF. Neither are serious alternatives. I'm sure you could admit this...if you weren't so invested in team sport.
 
Rubio hangs out in Rick Scott land, the home of retirees and health care fraud.

Skeletor should have been in prison long ago for the crap he's done for so long, the politicians here thrive off borking health care, not reforming it.

Somehow defrauding the healthcare system and getting away with it seems less non aggressive than having an approved private E-Mail account these days.

:colbert:
 
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So you start a thread saying the Repubs have no HC proposals and then go on to discuss their HC proposals?

Fern

Rubio's healthcare plan is a Politico op-ed and Walker's is a 3-page PDF. Neither are serious alternatives. I'm sure you could admit this...if you weren't so invested in team sport.

Why cant you allow republicans the same benefit allows the democrats.

'“we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in"
 
Why cant you allow republicans the same benefit allows the democrats.

'“we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in"
lol +1

I don't think there will be an alternative. Any concrete proposal will piss off some people, whereas misty rhetoric allows everyone to envision the system he or she wants.

This is the Pubby version of Hope and Change: We Hope you believe we are going to Change things the way you want them changed.
 
Oh No... Wrong!
Republicans do have a healthcare plan. Haven't you heard?

#1, do away with Obamacare as their number one goal.

#2, allow the purchasing of healthcare from other states. Just like with buying gasoline. If one gas station charges $2.99 a gallon, drive to the next state where gas goes for $2.98 a gallon. HUGE SAVINGS! No?

#3, (and take note of this one which is fact in their plan)
When your insurance company pays a doctor or hospital under your plan for services rendered, the insurance company will then send the insured individual a tax form 1099 for the exact dollar amount your insurance company paid out for your medical treatment. And the tax payer must include this tax form 1099 as income on their current year end taxes.
So, if the insurance company paid to a hospital $100,000 on your behalf as covered insurance benefit, you the insured and the tax payer will receive a tax form 1099 in the mail for $100,000 as "other" income, which must included as income on your year end taxes.
So, (as an example) for that current tax year the wage earner making $45.000 in income must put down that they actually made $145,000 as income. $45,000 taxed wages plus form 1099 as "other income" of $100,000 = $145.000 total taxable yearly income. And then be sure to include a check to the IRS for that additional tax on your additional $100,000 income for that tax year, or face the wrath from the IRS.
Garnished wages, tax leans on home and car, as well as all other assets.

And with that, you have your republican health plan.
After they first repeal Obamacare, naturally.
 
It's because they are too busy plugging the holes the last disaster. And trying to convince liberals that their plans don't work because, uh, economics. But that is as likely to happen as liberals going into the inner city and admitting they have fucked up for the past 50 years.
 
It's because they are too busy plugging the holes the last disaster. And trying to convince liberals that their plans don't work because, uh, economics. But that is as likely to happen as liberals going into the inner city and admitting they have fucked up for the past 50 years.
You're an idiot.
 
There is no Republican healthcare plan alternative because the plan we got was the Republican plan. Obama didn't leave Republicans with anywhere else further right to go.
 
There is no Republican healthcare plan alternative because the plan we got was the Republican plan. Obama didn't leave Republicans with anywhere else further right to go.

I thought Obamacare was Republican?

I thought the ACA was the Republican plan implemented by the Dems . Maybe just mad the Dems get the credit 😛

Damn, I would have been the 4th to come post this. Or, asked another way, why are Dems taking credit for implementing the Rep plan? Or, why are Reps so up in arms about their own plan?

Or, a bigger question: Why, given that elected Politicians should be doing what is best for the constituents even if it costs them their job, would the Dems with super majority not implement Single Payer like they should have? They had years to have that bill completely thought out and worked up, how could they possibly have been so negligent (and at that level of affect, that's like, Traitor and Criminal negligent) as to not have done that?

Only Harry and Nancy will ever know... (it's not like campaign mode new POTUS Bummer had any idea what was going on)
 
Here's the start of a better plan:

Employers must report their share of premiums on wage statements. This amount is not deductible as a business expense and is taxed as ordinary income to the employee.

Any premiums paid directly by individuals is 100% deductible. Once a person is enrolled in an insurance plan, it can be suspended during non-payment of premiums but can never be terminated and there can be no eligibility requirements other than payment of premiums.

The goal of course, is to eliminate insurance as something you get from an employer, which makes it harder evaluate jobs and forces you to change doctors if you change to an employer with different approved providers.

Instead, your parents buy insurance for you and you can keep it for life. No worries of pre-existing conditions because you never have a loss of coverage and individuals are in direct control of their tolerance for deductibles/co-pay/limits/premiums.
 
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Here's the start of a better plan:

Employers must report their share of premiums on wage statements. This amount is not deductible as a business expense and is taxed as ordinary income to the employee.

Any premiums paid directly by individuals is 100% deductible. Once a person is enrolled in an insurance plan, it can be suspended during non-payment of premiums but can never be terminated and there can be no eligibility requirements other than payment of premiums.

The goal of course, is to eliminate insurance as something you get from an employer, which makes it harder to evaluate and change jobs. Instead, your parents adds you on

Why not just tax all money spent on premiums equally, whether you spend it or your employer does?

While I agree our current system of incentivizing employer based health care is stupid I don't see much benefit in explicitly disincentivizing it.

Make all premiums the same, tax wise, and call it a day.
 
Damn, I would have been the 4th to come post this. Or, asked another way, why are Dems taking credit for implementing the Rep plan? Or, why are Reps so up in arms about their own plan?

Or, a bigger question: Why, given that elected Politicians should be doing what is best for the constituents even if it costs them their job, would the Dems with super majority not implement Single Payer like they should have? They had years to have that bill completely thought out and worked up, how could they possibly have been so negligent (and at that level of affect, that's like, Traitor and Criminal negligent) as to not have done that?

Only Harry and Nancy will ever know... (it's not like campaign mode new POTUS Bummer had any idea what was going on)

Did any of you actually read the Heritage Plan? Or just what the Daily Show told you about it?
 
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