Reporting to work at a specific time

[kranky]

We have some college students who work part-time. They have their own individual assignments and work independently.

They are asked to submit their work schedule, which is completely up to them. One works 8-5 Tuesday, one works 7-9 Monday-Thursday, etc. They can choose their own work schedule.

Now if someone does not come when they said they would - frequently - how big of a deal is it, and why? Let's say their schedule was 3-5 PM and they come in anywhere from 3:30 to 4 PM. Assume if they come in later, they stay later so the number of hours worked is not an issue.

 

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

I would say it is an issue... they're given the responsibility to set their own schedule; which implies they've picked times they are okay with. if they're chronically off-schedule, perhaps they need to submit a revision.

edit: is the work they do wholly self-contained, or do others depend on them? Just asking, because if no one is affected by them being off-schedule, then it's less critical. But I still think that the "right" thing to do is for them to be there when they say they will.

 

[pontifex]

i'd say its a big problem, especially in places that i have worked previously. coming in late is not looked well upon. If you come in late here, you get like a violation point. once you get so many points, you are fired. the points do reset every year though.

i would have them change their schedule to fit the time they are coming in and leaving. if they still come in late after that, i would get rid of them.

 

[Specop 007]

It depends on the management and the workers.
Here we have our "schedule" but its somewhat flexible. My schedule is supposed to be 7:30 - 4:30. I often come in at 8 or leave at 4. I also rarely take ANY lunch let alone the hour I'm supposed to have. No one says anything because I do my work, I do it well and I help others when they need it.

Bad supervisors will micro manage peoples time and ride them for small variations.
Good supervisors look at the overall performance. If you best eomplyee in the department is also constantly 15 minutes late every day will you fire him just because he cant get there on time?

If these part timers work hard, work well with others and are good team players I wouldnt worry about their timeliness all that much however it WOULD be a point I would bring up in reviews etc.

 

[Descartes]

In my experience, most people will show up around 30 minutes of the official start time. There are always a few that take that to an hour, and still others that like to just do whatever they want and show up whenever they want. We have a few guys that chronically show up 1+ hours late, and sometimes as long as 2 hours or more.

How you respond to it is a difficult problem, especially for creative workers as you can often see a productivity hit when they feel constrained.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Depends on the industry. Non-critical IT, such as development? Who cares, as long as they put their time in. EMT? Very big problem.

 

[mugs]

Depends on the job responsibilities and if they are/should be aware that the start time is not flexible. It really doesn't matter since they work independently, but if they are expected to be there at a certain time they should be there then or call if they're going to be late.

 

[sao123]

I dont see a problem, provided they put in the required amount of time.

 

[vi edit]

I would say it varies by position and the overall corporate culture.

If the position is such that it is easily measurable and is not required to have a person readily(or reliably) available then it's not a big deal. It's also a lesser deal if the overall corporate culture is one of flex time and personal freedom.

On the other hand, if the position requires regular interaction with groups/departments and the other parts of business are waiting for somebody to be at that desk or at that phone, then it's a serious issue. It's also a serious problem if productivity is hurt because they are not on the clock during peak hours. Also, if the corporate culture is one that lives on very strict hours (Banking, finance, manf to a degree, ect) then it could be a morale issue for people that do report in on time.

There's certainly some merit to predictability and reliability. It's nice to know that you can count on a person being at their desk at by 8:00AM every morning and there until 4:30PM every day, without fail. But some jobs just don't require that.

To summarize...in whole it's a negative quality, but does allow some room for interpretation depending on the situation.

 

[nageov3t]

depends a lot on the corporate culture.

at my company, no one -- from the CEO on down -- really places an emphasis on coming in on time unless you work a shift where people are relying on you coming in for them to go home (mostly applies to the overnight guys, since the 4 pm - 12 am shift can't go home till the night guys get in).

on the other hand, my best friend works for a more typical suit-and-tie, big corporation... a couple months ago, he actually got a repremand because he came into work ~10 minutes late three times.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I would say that it depends on the task and how important the scheduling is.

At my work, if I showed up an hour late and left an hour later, nobody would care. I'm not on any sort of production line. Now, the people that ARE on the production line, thier being on time is important because they need to keep the line moving and there are more than one shift.

 

[MiniDoom]

My company doesn?t care when I show as long as I complete my tasks. Personally speaking, being on time is part of my work ethic and should be the first and easiest part of any job. Once people manage or rely on other people to complete their job, they will understand the importance of it. I?m supposed to be here from 9-5, but typically come in around 7:30.

 

[djheater]

I think the company has to decide if they're able to commit to ROWE for those workers. If they are then commit completely, not half-assedly by allowing them to pick their own hours and then holding them accountable for doing so.

I think the structure outlined in the original post sends mixed messages. The implication is they can choose when they work as long as they get the work done, if you're going to hold them accountable to be present at specific hours that needs to be made explicitly clear to them

 

[kranky]

Thanks to all for the thoughtful comments. I agree that generally, the main thing is to get the work done, and what particular hours someone has their butt in their chair isn't critical. I maybe should have mentioned in the OP that in case of a conflict between work and school, school must come first, and I have no problem with people calling off if they need the time to work on their school projects.

But I have decided that the interns do need to be here when they say they will be. My reasoning:

1. They need to develop good work habits, and being on time is one.
2. They need to learn they will be held accountable for what they say they will do.

I feel that allowing them to make up their own work schedule provides all the flexibility they could need, and since they have very little in the way of absolute responsibilities, it's difficult to evaluate their performance. I measure people on "accountability" among other characteristics, and being on time is an easy thing for them to accomplish in order to meet accountability standards.

If they weren't interns, I wouldn't make an issue of it. I do believe holding them to their self-defined schedule will help reinforce a "you better do what you say you will do" understanding.

So they have to be here at the times they said they will, unless they call first to say they will be late or not coming in. I think that's fair for interns.

 

[Metron]

I hold a differing view, especially since you describe the position as "They have their own individual assignments and work independently."

If you treat people as professionals, they will work like professionals. If you treat people like children, they work like children. Sure there are exceptions where a few will try to abuse the system, but you can deal with those on an individual basis.

If a person is working independently AND putting in sufficient hours to cover the work, the time that they arrive and depart is irrelevant.

In my work experience, I've seen a much better morale, higher productivity, and more teamwork in situations where you treat people like professionals.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: pontifex
i'd say its a big problem, especially in places that i have worked previously. coming in late is not looked well upon. If you come in late here, you get like a violation point. once you get so many points, you are fired. the points do reset every year though.

i would have them change their schedule to fit the time they are coming in and leaving. if they still come in late after that, i would get rid of them.

WORST. SYSTEM. EVAR.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: Metron
I hold a differing view, especially since you describe the position as "They have their own individual assignments and work independently."

If you treat people as professionals, they will work like professionals. If you treat people like children, they work like children. Sure there are exceptions where a few will try to abuse the system, but you can deal with those on an individual basis.

If a person is working independently AND putting in sufficient hours to cover the work, the time that they arrive and depart is irrelevant.

In my work experience, I've seen a much better morale, higher productivity, and more teamwork in situations where you treat people like professionals.

If they were full-time employees, I would do it differently. I do try to treat all of them like professionals; however, the reality is that they are students, with no prior experience in a professional workplace. My intent is to reinforce a sense of responsibility.

If you say you'll be here at 9, be here at 9. If you aren't going to come in until 9:30, then say you'll be here at 9:30. Either way is fine by me (and I consider this to be treating them as professionals, not as children).

But if someone is chronically unable to get to work at the time HE chose, that, to me, is not good. Do what you say you will do - that's the point I'm trying to get across.

 

[FoBoT]

need more info

it depends on if they interact with others and stuff like that


lets say the job is to move a pile of bricks from the east side of the parking lot to the west side of the parking lot and no one is going to do anything with the bricks after they are moved (so no one is waiting for the first process to do their job)

in that case, who cares if the worker starts moving the bricks at 3 pm or 4 pm or whatever, as long as they move a reasonable number of bricks in their 2 hour shift, then they have done their job

now if the situation is putting the bricks onto a truck and the truck driver is scheduled to show up at 5 pm expecting to leave at 5:05 pm with a load of bricks, then that 3 pm dude better show up at 3 pm and get that truck loaded on time so they don't impact other workers/the business

there you go. it depends on what the task at hand is

 

[sao123]

I have a problem with the whole working by time schedule that has gripped america for the last million years.

Aside from those who deal with walk-in customers and assembly line manufacturing...

Work schedules and pay should be based on performance & deadlines rather than time.

As long as a person meets their required deadlines... (have this stack of data entered by 3pm next monday.) I dont care if you come in at 7am, 4pm, 1am, and I dont care if you work 15 minutes today and 14 hours tomorrow. As long as you do what is required of you... all should be well with the world. I dont care if you do all you work at home in your PJ's.


This reduces and possibly solves the problem of people surfing the web at work (unproductive and often wasted time), people taking an extra smoke break, or 10 minutes extra for lunch.

The only measure of accountability, is you make all required appointments, assignments, & deadlines. Not whether you appear at your desk from 9am to 5pm and are not caught doing something not work related.

 

[dullard]

It depends on the job. What if another employee needs to talk to him/her? What if that person isn't there? Lateness for one person may cause a huge headache for everyone else involved. You can't just say the person can come and go as long as he/she does the work. You must say that the person can come and go as long as EVERYONE can do their work.

 

[Fingolfin269]

It depends on the culture of the business. Does it foster the belief that it is okay to show up half an hour to an hour late? If so, then you cannot really fault them. If it is the opposite then yah, I think it is a big deal.

 

[BoomerD]

IMO, it all depends on the job and how it affects other workers/customers. If what they do doesn't affect any one elses schedule/work, then it's not a big deal, but if it does, then they should be on time or fired.
For most of the past 30 or so years, I've been a crane/heavy equipment operator. If I'm not on time, the crew stands around waiting for me to show up...(kind of hard to hoist a 15 ton beam without a crane), so you MIGHT get away with being late once, but after that, you get both checks, and try to be on time in window "E"...
Also, much of my work is off-shore, so you have to take a boat to get to your work area. (in my case, a barge) the boat isn't gonna wait for you, and hold up the rest of the crews, so you have to wait for one of the crew boats to return from their runs, making you even later by the time you get to work...
I always told my apprentices; "If you ain't here 30 minutes before the start of the shift, you're LATE!" That gives people time to deal with the minutae of getting ready for the day...(piss break, coffee, gather tools & etc. needed for their shift)

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: dullard
It depends on the job. What if another employee needs to talk to him/her? What if that person isn't there? Lateness for one person may cause a huge headache for everyone else involved. You can't just say the person can come and go as long as he/she does the work. You must say that the person can come and go as long as EVERYONE can do their work.

if you need to reach me, I have telephone, fax, & email.

 

[kranky]

Thought it was clear in the OP, but apparently not. They each work on their own projects. Interaction with others is necessary but not relevant to this issue - they have enough time to do that.

On the issue of meeting required deadlines: they are students working on projects far more complex than the typical school assignment or term project. I found it is unrealistic to set deadlines on these types of assignments. They don't have the experience to estimate huge projects. They don't know enough to predict what parts will be tougher than they thought. The deadlines only frustrate them and are counterproductive to the intern concept. They are working, yes, but they are also supposed to be learning. And when they are learning they will make mistakes.

When we had deadlines, they got so anxious there was no enjoyment, no looking for taking an hour to learn about something new. They would miss the deadline and feel like failures. That wasn't the idea. They are to be learning new things, how to work with others, learning new software tools, etc. The deadline looming over their heads wasn't contributing.

So instead of that, we meet twice a month and go over what got done in the last two weeks and what we're doing the next two weeks. The projected finish date may change as things develop. All that is to say that it's not practical to say, "Here, do X, be done by October 20."

So without a firm deadline, I'm looking to see continuous progress and learning. I can't measure them against a set finish date.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
It depends on the management and the workers.
Here we have our "schedule" but its somewhat flexible. My schedule is supposed to be 7:30 - 4:30. I often come in at 8 or leave at 4. I also rarely take ANY lunch let alone the hour I'm supposed to have. No one says anything because I do my work, I do it well and I help others when they need it.

Bad supervisors will micro manage peoples time and ride them for small variations.
Good supervisors look at the overall performance. If you best eomplyee in the department is also constantly 15 minutes late every day will you fire him just because he cant get there on time?

If these part timers work hard, work well with others and are good team players I wouldnt worry about their timeliness all that much however it WOULD be a point I would bring up in reviews etc.

This happened to me recently.

I've been going to look at homes for sale during my weekend shift lunch breaks because my g/f and I have no days off together. I get back on average about 5-8 minutes late. My boss asks me to get in to work on time because it's very important. This conversation happened after another tech and I took the most calls ever and sold the most services ever over 2 days in the history of the company. 160 calls and 22 new sales.