Question Replacing 30"+20" NEC pro displays combo with?

[_Rick_]

So, my old NEC PA301 appears to be crapping out - I had some hope it would cling on to life a few months ago, but it looks like the shadows in the screen are here to stay, with a huge smudge down the center of the screen being the main distraction.

Now, why did I buy those screens some 7 years ago?
Back then I came from 2x19" 5:4 screens, and wanted a similar aspect ratio. Using the 20" screen in portrait gives me 3760x1600 desktop resolution, with almost perfectly matching pixel pitch.
I have a DLSR or two, and although getting adobeRGB printed accurately these days, I still prefer to have at least an aRGB workflow during the edit. I have been taking less pictures recently - but color accuracy is still something that I value. A separate colorimeter + calibaration required to get aRGB is a downside.
Input lag/delay and refresh rate are not much of an issue for me, I am way too slow and clumsy for that to make a difference.

Additionally, I've been using the integrated KVM-switch extensively, to switch the connected USB devices seamlessly between my PC and work laptop, just by switching input on the screen. A separate KVM-switch is a downside.
Also, my desk is really high (it has a keyboard drawer) so a stand that allows the screen to sit right on the desk is pretty important. A separate VESA-mount based stand is a downside.

Essentially the same requirements persist. Minimum 1600 pixels vertical, 21:9 aspect ratio preferred.

Strong candidates, as in another thread currently on the front page of this forum:
LG OLED 48CX - one huge screen will be a bit harder to organize, and it will be awfully large. No aRGB
LG 38" Ultragear - higher dpi than my current setup - so I will slightly lose in screen size, with no real benefit. I'm no DPI queen. Also: a fan? really? And finally, no aRGB.
43" 4k displays - generally look like they are garbage-tier panels, and none have height-adjustable stands...

Wildcards:
Replace the NEC with one of the last Dell 2460x1600s - but I feel like the Dell will be a step down (compared to the then-new NEC at least)
HP 31.1" 4096x2160 pro display - a bit more expensive, but the first on this list that I would trust to have mostly accurate aRGB, and a profile out of the box, so I don't need to manually profile and buy a colorimeter. Real downside: It's smaller than both my screens - and I don't think I can get a companion screen that's suitable (1920x1200 at the same dpi, with a pivot stand?)

What I'm hoping for: 43" 5120x2160 ultra-wide, with decent colors and aRGB, built-in KVM and decent uniformity. And a pro stand.
Will pay 2500€ gladly.

Since that doesn't exist: What do you think gets me closest?

 

[Viper GTS]

I've been on the big pixel space bandwagon for close to 15 years. I too had a 20/30/20 setup from ~2006-2012, then a triple portrait 27" 1440x2560 from 2012-2015, and single panel 4K from 2015 on. I would never go back to multiple monitors, and I don't generally see the appeal of ultra-wide - None are all that much wider than 3840, and why sacrifice 560 vertical pixels for the sake of aspect ratio? Even if the top section is only used for lower importance stuff it's still useful pixel space.

Before you go too far into this - Have you ever used DisplayFusion? Your 'hard to organize' comment makes me think you have not. DisplayFusion makes single 4K absolutely wonderful. You can create virtual monitor splits and set keyboard shortcuts to do things like snap a window to the bottom/top/left/right half/quarter/third whatever of that virtual monitor. Virtual taskbars for each virtual monitor that only show apps from that pane are a godsend too.

As an example of this capability, here's what I'm running right now:



I have my 4K pixel space split into three 1280x2160 segments. I have keyboard shortcuts setup using the numpad CTRL+ALT+#:

7 = Top left quarter
8 = Top half
9 = Top right quarter
4 = Left half
5 = Maximize
6 = Right half
1 = Bottom left quarter
2 = Bottom half
3 = Bottom right quarter

I can snap any window to any position easily. All of this is 100% configurable - You can do stuff like this:



It's quite powerful, and makes contiguous pixel space more useful than multi-monitors.

Would that change your mind on a single 4K?

Also, you are basically correct - All the 43" stuff is low tier panels. Great for office work, less so for photography. Have you looked at the Asus ProArt line?

ProArt Display PA32UCX-PK｜Monitors｜ASUS USA

The goal of the ASUS ProArt display series is to offer the most advanced technologies to power the imaginations of creators everywhere. With features such as mini-LED backlights, OLED displays, and ASUS Smart HDR technology, ProArt monitors are the solution for creating masterpieces.

www.asus.com

I can't handle 4K that small but as soon as something like that is available in 43" I'll be upgrading.

On the LG 48CX - I used an LG 50" TV as a display until this year when I swapped to a Dell P4317Q. 50" was a bit big. Also - If you've never done it, there are some significant downsides to using a TV as a monitor. The primary one is that when the TV goes to sleep the PC thinks it lost its display. Windows would resize everything into 1024x768 so all my window positioning would be gone. I eventually solved this by adding an HDFury Vertex in the chain which made it mostly workable. That allowed persistence to the PC even when the TV was powered off. Eventually the need to manually power it on every single time combined with 50" being just a bit too big led me to trade it for the Dell that I had in the house. Finally, if you aren't aware of this, LG limited the HDMI 2.1 ports on their 2020 models. So while you get the VRR you lose the full bandwidth ports which limits resolution and color depth options.

LG downgrades 2020 TVs to HDMI 2.1 40Gbps - VideoCardz.com

LG 2020 TV HDMI 2.1 specs downgraded, confusion continues Probably the most interesting technology for 2020 is the new HDMI interface version 2.1. It’s a massive improvement in display technology and a huge opportunity for their manufacturers. The adoption of HDMI 2.1 will have a huge impact on...

videocardz.com

Really unfortunate as otherwise the 48 is extremely appealing.

Viper GTS

 

[_Rick_]

Thanks for the tip with the tooling - if the large 4k displays were more appealing, that would make adjusting to them easier.
One thing I just realized: I like ultra-wide because I usually keep my taskbar at the top of the screen, since I slam my monitors to the desk top. So moving the top of the screen higher, moves the start menu off-center.
But then - I barely interact with the task bar anymore, and mostly use the type-ahead feature.
On the other hand, the task bar itself will go out of view, which I do use more than alt-tab, as it has become quite powerful since Windows 7 or so. Especially the systray-area is something I use a lot, and moving that out of sight would be annoying.

But I could just move it to the right side of the screen, and make it nice and wide - that's something I've successfully trialled in the past.

And the 48 inch OLED only became an option, because the 43 inch screens are so horrid. Especially light leakage/uniformity appears to be a huge issue with larger LCDs, and that's something that OLED just doesn't have. Add to that decent color reproduction, no fan, and a still-useful size, and I'm afraid for my usage it's currently the best option - while being a pretty horrible solution in so many ways.
At least burn-in shouldn't be too much of an option - I'm a low-brightness/low-contrast user (usually in the 100-150 cd/m² range), when using the desktop - but then the TVs usually only have one profile slot for low-latency settings :-/

 

[Viper GTS]

With DisplayFusion you can put taskbars wherever you want, ie you could have it in the middle third of the wide bottom/triple segment top example.

If you don't game/have a need for high refresh rate the 48CX has real potential. IMO the sweet spot for 4K @ 100% is 43". 48 is likely workable and I'd probably try it based on your scenario/usage.

Why the reluctance to get a colorimeter? I get the desire to have it all contained in the monitor but it's not that big a hassle. I don't do anything color critical but I still have used one since the beginning of my multi-monitor days. I bought a bunch of 24" Trinitrons when they were just starting to get replaced by LCDs in corporate environments and trying to get a triple setup with those to color match was extremely aggravating until I had a colorimeter.

Viper GTS

 

[_Rick_]

Re colorimeter: Mostly cost, but also inexperience.

Sure, pre-calibrated screens eventually drift out of spec, but they're still a huge convenience, and they also mean, that the screen _can_ be calibrated, and the manufacturer is willing to spec the coverage, making it easier to get a replacement, should it be way out of whack.
And as you mentioned, with just one screen, it's less of an issue - at least you have a consistent error

Of course, LG chose today to pre-announce their next gen of OLEDs which unsurprisingly will have full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 on the menu, but we all know those won't be available to buy at list price for almost another year.
...I already feel bad for buying an RTX 2060 two weeks ago, because my card had two dead fans. At least I didn't get anything more high end, so I can console myself by staying sub-300 euro.

What's stopping me from diving into the OLED is the behavior you described, when switching off the screen (and I have observed a similar behavior on my E6 OLED in the living room) and the lack of presets, but I guess worst case it will become a bed-room TV or dedicated screen for my sim-racing rig. I'm watching the price, and hoping that someone announces a decent screen in the mean time....

 

[Viper GTS]

This little gem will fix it:

Vertex 4K60 4:4:4 600MHz | HDFury.com | Connect and Fix everything in HDMI

Vertex Kit includes: Vertex central unit Choice of power supply USB Y cable (5ft) DB9 > RS232 jack cable (4ft) State of the art HDMI central for FHD source or sink in UHD/HDR setup or the other way around. Comes with OLED/OSD, huge scaling power and toolkit for researcher, content creator or...

www.hdfury.com

You can set it to always present EDID data no matter what happens to the real display. It solves nearly everything except for automatic power on. With sufficient work it might be possible to make it send an HDMI CEC power on command when signal goes from not present to present, but I never bothered to put in the effort.

And yes, full bandwidth 2020 OLED is now a thing but in 77 and 88 8K only AFAIK. They're $20k and $30k respectively here in the US and of course enormous which makes them a non-starter for desktop use.

If you want to give it a try I can loan you my Vertex, now that I'm using a desktop monitor it's just sitting idle.

Viper GTS

 

[_Rick_]

Yowza, that's steep. I wonder if there isn't some way to get the same functionality from a driver mod (for either the screen or the GPU).
Also, interestingly, I haven't seen the issue mentioned yet on the 150-page thread over on hardwareluxx. Since I do have the occasional issue with the E6 (particularly when combined with standby/suspend on the PC), but not a persistent issue, I still wonder how bad the impact really is.

...profiles are pretty bad though, as the high-contrast you like for games is not ideal for reading. Going deep into the menus for that is probably not ideal.
I guess one way would be to use HDR mode with higher contrast, and normal game mode with lower contrast, and hope most games support HDR (they don't -.-)

 

[_Rick_]

So, it looks like LG released a non-GSync variant of the Ultra Gear (so no fan) in the mean time. That one, although a tad smaller than I would prefer, and probably with sub-par brightness uniformity, is looking like the likely candidate.

Prices are still on the same level as the GSync screen, and availability pretty spotty, so I guess I'll have to wait until end of the year to get one for ~1k€.

 

[_Rick_]

Ooooh, there's a 38 inch Eizo, with decent built-in (3x4?!) KVM switch, a decent stand, good sRGB - and professional 5 year pick-up support (which in the past I already got to use.)
"Only" 1500 euros. Downside: Only 8 bit color (but 10bit LUT) and only 60 Hz refresh rate, no aRGB profile.

But the KVM and stand alone make the 38" a more acceptable solution at last.

 

[_Rick_]

So it looks like Dell listened, and they're preparing a 5120x2160 screen at 40", with good color gamut.
TBD, if backlight uniformity and connectivity are up to snuff - and it won't be available before June, I guess.

 

[_Rick_]

So, I ordered one at Dell directly - was supposed to be delivered last week. Probably stuck in Egypt, on a certain ship, since they delayed shipping by three weeks.
Finally found a halfway-decent review on rtings, which makes it look, like I might keep it. Unless intra-series variance mucks up my example.

 

[_Rick_]

Arrived on Monday, size is pretty good, but some powertools desktop-zoning sure helps a bunch.

One downside: I believe that switching input switches which machine has the network port assigned, when I would prefer it to be permanently bound to the thunderbolt connection.
Also, getting fullscreen processes to take up only part of the screen will be the next challenge.

 

[_Rick_]

I did manage to off-set borderless window mode pseudo-full screen to one side, allowing me to achieve something like what I imagined - but this requires fudging pixel offsets with windows explorer, and still doesn't solve the issue for full-screen rendering. Of course, that also broke for the most part with multiple screens, so not much was lost there.
I hear that some of the extra-ultrawides offer a picture by picture mode, but I don't think the Dell offers this.
This makes it a bit worse for causal gaming, as having a guide/discord/anything open besides a game window is a bit of a mess.