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Repair ETA?

Viper1j

Viper1j

Diamond Member
I was talking with my kid brother last night.. And the subject came up of an eta to repair the country, and even where to start. When the US has a normal President again (opposed to a president) some things are going to be easy to fix, some not so much. My thought was to start with the simple stuff. First thing, reverse the Muslim ban, knock down any of the magical wall that might have gone up. Rejoin the Paris Climate thing, and roll your sleeves up, and get down to the grunt work of undoing the damage from the tariffs and the tax scam.

Where would you start?

And do you think it can all be fixed in one term? Or is it going to be like a 20 year thing?
 
Best case- If Trump is impeached AND removed by the Senate then many abuses of the Office will be seen as dangerous to commit by further Presidents however the damage between branches cannot be fully addressed since the inherent flaws in our system remain.

Next best- Trump impeached but not removed means that future Presidents can be reasonably certain (particularly Republicans) that they are immune from removal and will therefore have no disincentives to once again place the nation into Constitutional and international conflicts.

Worst- If Trump lasts until 2020 without a challenge from impeachment then he has demonstrated that Presidents are unaccountable except every four years which leaves plenty of time to destroy the Constitutional Government we were used to.

Foreign alliances and relations? Simply put there will be no fixing them. We certainly can get along better but we cannot be trusted ever again as another Trump is a decided possibility and things can change with a tweet.

We will never be the same and cannot be. To get back to a shadow of what we are supposed to be? Best case is a generation assuming Republicans remain out of power that entire time but if not this is the new status quo and the last two hundred years will be as quaint as Colonial times. We'll continue to puff out our chests and be the joke of the world except that we remain a substantial threat to everyone.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Best case- If Trump is impeached AND removed by the Senate then many abuses of the Office will be seen as dangerous to commit by further Presidents however the damage between branches cannot be fully addressed since the inherent flaws in our system remain.

Next best- Trump impeached but not removed means that future Presidents can be reasonably certain (particularly Republicans) that they are immune from removal and will therefore have no disincentives to once again place the nation into Constitutional and international conflicts.

Worst- If Trump lasts until 2020 without a challenge from impeachment then he has demonstrated that Presidents are unaccountable except every four years which leaves plenty of time to destroy the Constitutional Government we were used to.

Foreign alliances and relations? Simply put there will be no fixing them. We certainly can get along better but we cannot be trusted ever again as another Trump is a decided possibility and things can change with a tweet.

We will never be the same and cannot be. To get back to a shadow of what we are supposed to be? Best case is a generation assuming Republicans remain out of power that entire time but if not this is the new status quo and the last two hundred years will be as quaint as Colonial times. We'll continue to puff out our chests and be the joke of the world except that we remain a substantial threat to everyone.
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Worst worst, Trump lasts to 2020, gets re-elected, and lasts to 2024
 
I think a lot of people still point at Trump as the “cause” of all these problems, and not a symptom of that problems we already had that led to his election.

A good question to ask is why the hell would the Republican Party, the “party of Lincoln”, abandon their principles to embrace a character like Trump in the first place? Lots of layers to peel back, but eventually you end up with gerrymandered districts that became less competitive over time, unlimited dark money funding campaigns, wholesale state and judiciary capture by special interest groups (ALEC, Federalist Society etc.) and a revolving door between government and lobbyists.

I think HR1 is a good start, but a lot more needs to be done before we get a real “fix”.
 
a very, very long time. unless all his appointment can be voided due to him being an illegitimate President.
 
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Dems would need to take all 3 branches to even begin repair. Otherwise they'll keep getting blocked in the senate or vetoed in the white house. Any repair talk is premature at this point. It took a long time to get to this point in our history, and I think a lot of people are still in denial about the actual causes of our troubles. Until people wise up there will be no repair.

On an off chance that dems do take Senate, HoR, and WH, I can't speculate on how long it'll take, in some aspects probably never, but they will have to move fast and united without waiting for consensus from the Republican side. There will be lots of angst from the (R) side, but things like universal healthcare and higher taxes on the rich have to be done in the first year so that general populace sees immediate effects before the next election cycle.
 
It's far from clear to me that the country can be repaired from this point without some radical change.

Fundamentally what Trump has uncovered here is that the president can engage in rank corruption and obvious criminal activity with impunity so long as his party controls 34 or more senate seats. As any one party getting 67 senate seats seems unlikely, there's no longer an effective check on presidential misconduct. Trump's abuse of emergency declarations to repurpose funds not appropriated is also a direct threat to Congress's ability to act as an independent branch but you need 67 votes to change that too.

Basically the only hope I see is the next Democratic president taking one for the team and working with Congress to radically scale back the power of the executive branch, scrapping these emergency laws, codifying that the president can be indicted for criminal activity, re-establishing a truly independent special counsel, etc. Republicans will be happy to do it once a Democratic president is in office because they see things in purely partisan power terms - if a Democratic president went along we could get it done.

And yes, I'm fully aware that Republicans will probably immediately start trying to get the president indicted, etc, but the other alternatives are basically an imperial presidency or dissolution of the union.
 
30% of our voting base is just radicalized beyond repair. There ain't no fixing that. So long as big money can manipulate big dummy we're all fucked.
 
Some of the damage would be fixed pretty quickly, like the OP suggested. I also suspect that many of the early moves would reverse the reckless deregulation, especially environmental rules and net neutrality.

The trickier bit is the long tail stuff like restoring balance to the Supreme Court, counteracting biased judge appointments, healing rifts with the international community... those could take years, and the Dems might not have years if the US makes the mistake of voting in another Republican too soon.

The sad thing is that I don't see a real turnaround for American politics until there's a fundamental change in the Republican party... that is, it stops trying to use religion as a wedge issue and being willfully obstructionist. And that won't happen until you either see some incumbent Republicans leave office (McConnell's exit will be celebrated worldwide) or the party is handed such a shock defeat that it has no choice but to join the modern era.
 
Trump is trying to start a war so that he will be a shoe-in in 2020. Worked with the second Bush, tho not the first Bush.
 
I honestly don't think our system can be fixed anymore. I feel fairly certain that we are facing the end of our Democracy in the next few decades.
The problem isn't any given outrage that Trump has committed. It is much more dangerous than the specifics of a treaty or wall. The real damage was done was to our faith. Our system of government, and indeed all governments, requires a certain amount of faith to operate. Faith by the people that the government exists and operates to protect and serve their goals. Faith by the politicians that they are acting in the will of the people, for the good of the nation. That is what Republicans have destroyed. I, nor anyone I know, still believes that the US government is looking out for my best interest. We no longer believe that politicians operate in good faith, and many, perhaps the majority, of voters no longer even expect them to. We no longer have faith in the system, and the only power the system ever had was our faith, so the system will no longer work. Now it is just a matter of time before it fails altogether.
 
Most of what's needed is a President. 65% of the visible fixes can be done by EO. Fix the taxes will be sticky. As for our allies, we can play a quick round of "Blame the retard". As in "Look, you guys know we don't really think like him. We had to tolerate him as much as you did. Let's just forgive and forget.. M'Kay?"

That and an apology will go a long way towards mending fences. Hell we can even let the EU seize Donny's golf courses over there as a peace offering.
 
In this hypothetical are we assuming we have control of the house and senate? Or is the house and senate the same as they currently are? Because without total control, nothing will get done.

Assuming total control my to-do list would be:

1) undo everything that newt Gingrich did in the 90's to restore the ability of Congress to pass legislation not written by lobbyists.

2) Enact laws that prevent the president and a complicit controlling party to essentially ignore oversight with no real recourse. Remove all people hired or appointed by trump and anyone his lackeys hired.

3) Implement better oversight of our intelligence agencies so that information like a foreign power trying to influence or elections isn't held by a few people.

4) Campaign finance reform, no private money, no foreign money, completely transparent. Limit the election process to six months, 3 for primaries and 3 for the general election. Enforce the 503c rule that says your primary cause must be for helping the public.

5) Require all military use to get authorized by Congress first with emergency responses to be approved by the speaker and senate majority as well as the minority speakers.

6) Remove sanctions on Iran. Sign the climate accord. End the stupid trade war. Increase sanctions on NK and Russia as well as get the UN and all other countries to agree to such sanctions.

7) Defund the military budget by at least a 1/3.

8) Pass an infrastructure bill as well as a climate change plan that includes better vehicle efficiency standards.

9) Pass some sort of health care reform with price controls and a revamp of IP laws for the pharmaceutical industry.

10) if one doesn't already exist, create a government agency dedicated to science that basically does research for government and for the public good (kind of like the CDC but without the ability to be influenced by politics).

11) Replace "in god we trust" with "in the name of science" or somethin like that.

I'm sure the are more but those are the main ones.
 
ivwshane said:
In this hypothetical are we assuming we have control of the house and senate? Or is the house and senate the same as they currently are? Because without total control, nothing will get done.

Assuming total control my to-do list would be:

1) undo everything that newt Gingrich did in the 90's to restore the ability of Congress to pass legislation not written by lobbyists.

2) Enact laws that prevent the president and a complicit controlling party to essentially ignore oversight with no real recourse. Remove all people hired or appointed by trump and anyone his lackeys hired.

3) Implement better oversight of our intelligence agencies so that information like a foreign power trying to influence or elections isn't held by a few people.

4) Campaign finance reform, no private money, no foreign money, completely transparent. Limit the election process to six months, 3 for primaries and 3 for the general election. Enforce the 503c rule that says your primary cause must be for helping the public.

5) Require all military use to get authorized by Congress first with emergency responses to be approved by the speaker and senate majority as well as the minority speakers.

6) Remove sanctions on Iran. Sign the climate accord. End the stupid trade war. Increase sanctions on NK and Russia as well as get the UN and all other countries to agree to such sanctions.

7) Defund the military budget by at least a 1/3.

8) Pass an infrastructure bill as well as a climate change plan that includes better vehicle efficiency standards.

9) Pass some sort of health care reform with price controls and a revamp of IP laws for the pharmaceutical industry.

10) if one doesn't already exist, create a government agency dedicated to science that basically does research for government and for the public good (kind of like the CDC but without the ability to be influenced by politics).

11) Replace "in god we trust" with "in the name of science" or somethin like that.

I'm sure the are more but those are the main ones.
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Does anyone believe that any of this is even remotely possible? Does anyone here still have any faith that our government can accomplish anything significant for the good of the nation?
 
dank69 said:
Worst worst, Trump lasts to 2020, gets re-elected, and lasts to 2024
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He's pissed off everyone from Muslims to military trans. People won't forget how he wiped his ass with them. Hopefully farmers have longer memories too. Does anyone here really think re-election is viable at this point?

SMOGZINN said:
Does anyone believe that any of this is even remotely possible? Does anyone here still have any faith that our government can accomplish anything significant for the good of the nation?
Click to expand...

That's why it's called faith. Gotta keep it.
 
Viper1j said:
He's pissed off everyone from Muslims to military trans. People won't forget how he wiped his ass with them. Hopefully farmers have longer memories too. Does anyone here really think re-election is viable at this point?



That's why it's called faith. Gotta keep it.
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You are counting on farmers to vote for filthy liberals. I do not share in your optimism.
 
Viper1j said:
He's pissed off everyone from Muslims to military trans. People won't forget how he wiped his ass with them. Hopefully farmers have longer memories too. Does anyone here really think re-election is viable at this point?
.
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Only if he starts a war. Then the public will be too scared to switch commanders.
 
Oyeve said:
Only if he starts a war. Then the public will be too scared to switch commanders.
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Not even sure about that. The administration has been making it a little too obvious that it's trying to provoke a conflict with Iran, and Trump would likely mangle both the handling of it and the public perception. He'd make Bush Jr.'s "we need to go to war with Iraq now, truth be damned" schtick seem well-executed.
 
Commodus said:
Not even sure about that. The administration has been making it a little too obvious that it's trying to provoke a conflict with Iran, and Trump would likely mangle both the handling of it and the public perception. He'd make Bush Jr.'s "we need to go to war with Iraq now, truth be damned" schtick seem well-executed.
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I hope so. I really do.
 
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