Renting and lease...What is the correct interpretation of the lease?

[bruceb]

Technically, you have to get your payment to the landlord before the 5 day grace period is up. Always allow up to 1 week for USPS to deliver a letter. Now in most cases, it will get there much sooner, but every now and then, it runs like a snail.

 

[TwiceOver]

A former landlord of mine "lost" one of my checks, charged me a late fee on top of me having to cancel the check.

From that point on they were all mailed signature required until it pissed him off enough. That guy was a fuck anyway.

 

[waggy]

Ultimately I think she is entitled to the late fee. But if this is the first time you've been late, it is an opportunity to negotiate a one-time exception. She isn't obligated, but if she wouldn't budge I'd be one PITA tenant until my lease was up.

/this

i would think due means when the landlord gets the check. you should have sent it a day earlier./

I would call and ask for a wave of it since it was only a day late and the first time. IF they won't budge call about every little thing saying hey the lease says..


but some states and even city laws give you more then 5 days..though the lease may trump that

 

[NetWareHead]

Tenant: That's an unclear language. I can mail it 3 months earlier and a shady LL can still claim he/she received it late and charge us ("I never had it in my hand"). There is no auditing mechanism aside from the postmark date. My postmark date is well before the late fee incurring date.

Long story short, we're basically fighting over this, thanks to stupid USPS. Going forward we'll set up certified mail or wire the money. But as of NOW and what's happened- we're debating if the late fee is justified or not.

Its not unclear at all. Due means in the landlord's hand. There is an auditing mechanism, you elected to not use it. Mail delivery requiring a signature is a pain in the ass for the receiver and overkill for a rent check but delivery receipt should be good enough. A good tenant sends the check early and tries to time its arrival on the first of the month, not postmarks it on the first day of the month and then it arrives in the second week of the month. I have a new tenant and his bank sends a check on the 20th of the month so I get it early. I'm a landlord and a postmark means nothing to me if I don't have the money when its due.

I'd pick your battles wisely if I were you. When I rented I tried not to piss off any landlord especially over something this trifling. The fact is that the landlord received the check late so just pay the fee and move on.

 

[smackababy]

In pretty much all situations I've encountered, if the land lord doesn't receive delivery of the payment by the day it was due (usually the 5th of the month), it is late. You can cry about it taking forever from USPS, but that is your own fault. Mail it on the 28th... That gives you 7 days minimum (except for at the end of February) for it to arrive by the 5th.

If them getting the check before the 5th is a financial burden, you're already living above your means. And, in the event of an emergency or unknown cost situation, I am going to guess that if you just talked with your landlord about it, they would be okay. You would still have to pay the late fee, but they most likely won't be dicks about it.

 

[Tweak155]

My last landlord told me I paid so early it confused him sometimes and I was one of his best tenants he's ever had. All it took was aiming to get the check there the last week of the month vs the 1st of the next month. Your budget will naturally adjust over time although you may have to put in effort at first.

When I lived in an apartment I always dropped it off near the 1st since I controlled when it reached them.

 

[BurnItDwn]

If she accepts payment via mail, then, she should go by postmark date.

 

[slag]

OP has no control once he sends something. It can be the USPS or the bank. I once used to do an automatic payment for a rental place via the bank and the management company still claimed they got it weeks later. I had it setup so that it was sent on the first (late fee is incurred after the 10th). This was a check directly from the bank. Once, they claimed they got it on the 18th. Fuck 'em. Even if the penalty was a $1 I would've fought them tooth and nail because I did my part and I had no interest in investigating what happened with my bank and the management company and paying a penalty because of what others claimed or did (or did not do). They backed down when I told them just what I thought of their claim. Fuck 'em all.

Dari,

You're justified in your reply, but ultimately wrong. The OP's job is to ensure the check/payment/whatever is in the hands of the landlord on time. Whether he has to drive it to the landlord himself, pay for registered mail, or otherwise has some sort of tracking mechanism to ensure it is there on time, that responsibility is up to the person who owes the money, not the person expecting the money. OP has no control over the length of certain transaction types, that is sure, but ultimately is responsible for getting the money to the landlord on time and should use a guaranteed delivery method in the future to assure the payment arrives on time.

 

[slag]

If she accepts payment via mail, then, she should go by postmark date.

Works for taxes.. not much else.

If I were a landlord and told my tenant the rent was due by the 5th, that means in my hands to take to the bank by the 5th, not put in the mail by the 5th, because by the time it gets to me, it will be late. My tenant is not paying the post office, he or she is paying me.

 

[Tweak155]

Works for taxes.. not much else.

If I were a landlord and told my tenant the rent was due by the 5th, that means in my hands to take to the bank by the 5th, not put in the mail by the 5th, because by the time it gets to me, it will be late. My tenant is not paying the post office, he or she is paying me.

While as a tenant I also interpreted it this way, it doesn't hurt to have that wording in the lease.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Works for taxes.. not much else.

If I were a landlord and told my tenant the rent was due by the 5th, that means in my hands to take to the bank by the 5th, not put in the mail by the 5th, because by the time it gets to me, it will be late. My tenant is not paying the post office, he or she is paying me.

Tenant should not be held responsible for post office delays.

If landlord wants money by 1st and does not want delays, they should go door to door to the tenants and collect personally IMO.

 

[smackababy]

Tenant should not be held responsible for post office delays.

If landlord wants money by 1st and does not want delays, they should go door to door to the tenants and collect personally IMO.

Well, that's like your opinion, man.

That is why they give you 5 day buffer. There is no reason, if you have to mail the rent, that you can't get it there by the 5th. If you mail it the business day before the 1st, it should arrive by the 5th in almost every scenario.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Tenant should not be held responsible for post office delays.

If landlord wants money by 1st and does not want delays, they should go door to door to the tenants and collect personally IMO.

Credit card companies are the same way. They don't care about postmark. They expect payment by the due date. Outside of mailing your taxes or rebate submissions, nobody cares about postmark date.

 

[KeithP]

You owe the money. Pay up.

-KeithP

 

[K1052]

Well, that's like your opinion, man.

That is why they give you 5 day buffer. There is no reason, if you have to mail the rent, that you can't get it there by the 5th. If you mail it the business day before the 1st, it should arrive by the 5th in almost every scenario.

This.

Also this is why I pay everything electronically. I haven't written a check in about a year.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Credit card companies are the same way. They don't care about postmark. They expect payment by the due date. Outside of mailing your taxes or rebate submissions, nobody cares about postmark date.

I realize that the real world does not work the way it should.

People should not use snail mail with paper checks and should instead use electronic payment.

 

[Phoenix86]

This is one of this life lessons that's worth the $50.

 

[purbeast0]

Tenant should not be held responsible for post office delays.

If landlord wants money by 1st and does not want delays, they should go door to door to the tenants and collect personally IMO.

the tenant should be driving it personally and handing it to the land lord if they are going to be so close and worried about it not getting there on time.

 

[Wreckem]

Credit card companies are the same way. They don't care about postmark. They expect payment by the due date. Outside of mailing your taxes or rebate submissions, nobody cares about postmark date.

Credit card companies will hit you with a late fee if you set up an electronic payment 1 second past their cut off time(typically 5pm on the due date). Having a cut off time for an electronic payment is bogus.

But yeah outside a select few things(dealing with the govt, irs, courts, and a few other things) the mailbox rule doesn't apply.

 

[Midwayman]

Generally if a party accepts payments by mail, posting the mail by the agreed date is considered acceptance of the payment.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/mailbox_rule

 

[DAGTA]

Due means Due. You have to have it there the day it is due, no later.

Quit trying to be a wannabe lawyer, pay for $50 like a man, and move on.

Also, don't blame the USPS. You should always assume it takes *at least* 3 business days to get mail there. If the 1st falls on a Sunday assume that it won't get there till the 2nd, so you need to have mailed it on Tuesday to get there by Friday.

This

 

[DAGTA]

Tenant should not be held responsible for post office delays.

If landlord wants money by 1st and does not want delays, they should go door to door to the tenants and collect personally IMO.

The onus is on the person that owes the money.

 

[Wreckem]

..

 

[Dari]

Dari,

You're justified in your reply, but ultimately wrong. The OP's job is to ensure the check/payment/whatever is in the hands of the landlord on time. Whether he has to drive it to the landlord himself, pay for registered mail, or otherwise has some sort of tracking mechanism to ensure it is there on time, that responsibility is up to the person who owes the money, not the person expecting the money. OP has no control over the length of certain transaction types, that is sure, but ultimately is responsible for getting the money to the landlord on time and should use a guaranteed delivery method in the future to assure the payment arrives on time.

Nonsense. OP has no control once the check leaves his hand or the bank. Therefore, he has no idea the route it takes and the hands it touches before arriving at its final destination. And it's not his fucking problem either. I can send a check (via my bank) and it could arrive at the management office before the due date and still not clear until like a week or two later. Why? Because the check can easily bounce around in that office and no one may be the wiser. Of course, they don't care about that. They just contact you saying that you were late. I had zero interest going there and hand-delivering it to them so the management company would just have to chuck that up as the price of doing business.

If the landlord wants to be a dick, the OP just has to show proof. In my case, I could've showed them when my bank deducted the amount from my account and sent it to them.

 

[purbeast0]

Nonsense. OP has no control once the check leaves his hand or the bank. Therefore, he has no idea the route it takes and the hands it touches before arriving at its final destination. And it's not his fucking problem either. I can send a check (via my bank) and it could arrive at the management office before the due date and still not clear until like a week or two later. Why? Because the check can easily bounce around in that office and no one may be the wiser. Of course, they don't care about that. They just contact you saying that you were late. I had zero interest going there and hand-delivering it to them so the management company would just have to chuck that up as the price of doing business.

If the landlord wants to be a dick, the OP just has to show proof. In my case, I could've showed them when my bank deducted the amount from my account and sent it to them.

which is why if the OP waited to send it at the last minute, he should have driven it over to the landlords house and handed it to them personally, instead of depending on someone else to do it for him. it would have saved him $50 - gas money if he did that. lesson learned.