removing GPS tracker results in theft charge

[herm0016]

Cops put GPS tracker on man’s car, charge him with theft for removing it

Cops tracked the man's car because they suspected he was dealing meth.

arstechnica.com

This is Nuts.

guy is being tracked by unlabeled gps tracker on his car, tracker goes missing/gets taken off/ falls off. apparently it was placed there with a warrant. Cops find it not transmitting, execute search warrant on his home using "theft of the gps tracker" as their probable cause and find he has meth and other drugs. do not find the tracker or evidence that he took it off.

premis: if you remove an item from your car placed there by someone else, it's now theft and you could be charged with such, even if you don't know what it is or how it got there. the lower court seems to think the government should be treated differently than a citizen even if you don't know the government places the object on your property, and should have domain over anything they want, even if its unlabeled. I may even have some other thoughts if the device said, "if found return to police department" or something

it seems clear to me that if something is attached to your car, and you don't know what it is or who did it, that you should be able to remove it from your property and get rid of it in any way you see fit. further more, that a missing GPS tracker does not constitute theft and the search has no probable cause that a crime was committed. it could have just fallen off and been run over for instance, and all the evidence collected in the search without probable cause should be thrown out.

could the police attach a camera to your house and record, and execute a search warrant if they found it disabled? how about if they pitch a piece of trash in your car and you get rid of it? the polices property is clearly abandoned when they attach it to someone elses property.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yup. Heard about this yesterday from a lawyer YouTube I occasionally watch.

That is fucking nuts. If I leave a penny on your car and you drive off, did you just steal it?

Christ, if I place a package on your doorstep of $10,000 can I proclaim that you stole it?


As the lawyer said - how does he know whos device it was? It could be a private investigator. It could be a crazy ex-wife. Could be the state police, federal authorities, local authorities, etc... The point is that GPS tracking devices isn't something that only cops can exclusively get.

This is sheer lunacy and I honestly hope it gets enough attention to be overturned.


EDIT: Yeap, you can buy a GPS tracker easily for < $200 on Best Buy: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dronem...-on-module-black-grey/6259258.p?skuId=6259258

I mean, this guy is probably guilty as fuck - and is likely a drug dealer... but is it really that fucking hard to play by the rules when you gather evidence? Thanks to this shit he has to go free.

 

[Jhhnn]

I's a legit application of "the poison fruit of the poison tree" defense. I hope they win.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

A teacher I had in the 80s who was a retired lawyer used to say no reason to make the police lazy.
That statement was in regards to using hidden cameras in public to find drug deals.
His point is still true today.
Instead of giving Police tech that allows them to do sloppier work with fewer people, why don’t we spend a few dollars and hire more cops?

 

[UNCjigga]

So you can be charged with theft of police property when they (unbeknownst to you) place their property on your vehicle and it goes missing.

But the police do not have to compensate you for destroying your property in the course of arresting an unrelated individual who barged in.

Outside of carrying the badge and gun and license to use it, police shouldn’t have greater property rights than the citizens they are sworn to protect.

 

[Ichinisan]

... is it really that fucking hard to play by the rules when you gather evidence? Thanks to this shit he has to go free.

This. I mean, they got a warrant to do the tracker. Couldn't they get a search warrant without making up bogus charges?

 

[Brainonska511]

I's a legit application of "the poison fruit of the poison tree" defense. I hope they win.

It appears to be, but that legal defense has been hollowed out over the years thanks to the US Supreme Court.

I remember the South Carolina case where someone was pulled over for a faulty brake light, despite the local law requiring only one to be functional. Because the cop was supposedly acting in good faith, even though he was wrong in his knowledge of the law and in initiating the stop, the evidence found during the stop was considered admissible.

 

[Perknose]

It appears to be, but that legal defense has been hollowed out over the years thanks to the US Supreme Court.

I remember the South Carolina case where someone was pulled over for a faulty brake light, despite the local law requiring only one to be functional. Because the cop was supposedly acting in good faith, even though he was wrong in his knowledge of the law and in initiating the stop, the evidence found during the stop was considered admissible.

No words . . . just . . . no printable words.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

A teacher I had in the 80s who was a retired lawyer used to say no reason to make the police lazy.
That statement was in regards to using hidden cameras in public to find drug deals.
His point is still true today.
Instead of giving Police tech that allows them to do sloppier work with fewer people, why don’t we spend a few dollars and hire more cops?

Unless you're against the whole "Cops are bad" brigade, you should be all for more usage of surveillance without cops having to be on the front lines in order to gather evidence.

In all honesty it shouldn't take having to put a cop on the line with an "inside job" drug deal bust in order to arrest drug dealers. At the same time, it's ludicrous to say they should get a search warrant because "WAH! They took the tracking device that WE subvertly planted on their property"

 

[CZroe]

I mean... why even wait for it to disappear/fall off? Just charge him with possession of stolen property while it's still on the vehicle. Wouldn't you have a stronger case of theft if you could actually prove the suspect still had it and catch the suspect red-handed with it on the vehicle?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Unless you're against the whole "Cops are bad" brigade, you should be all for more usage of surveillance without cops having to be on the front lines in order to gather evidence.

In all honesty it shouldn't take having to put a cop on the line with an "inside job" drug deal bust in order to arrest drug dealers. At the same time, it's ludicrous to say they should get a search warrant because "WAH! They took the tracking device that WE subvertly planted on their property"

I suspect if he were to comment on this thread it would be you have enough to arrest him, just do it and don’t risk screwing it up with some whacky tracker.

 

[LurchFrinky]

Do they really need to place the GPS tracker on the vehicle? Just say you did so you can get a search warrant.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Do they really need to place the GPS tracker on the vehicle? Just say you did so you can get a search warrant.

Probably trying to find others involved

 

[herm0016]

Do they really need to place the GPS tracker on the vehicle? Just say you did so you can get a search warrant.

they did get a warrent to place it. so at least there is something! i wonder what the probable cause was for that one? "suspicious activity" "seen driving down a street"

 

[CZroe]

*woosh*

Lurch is saying that they could claim it was stolen without ever having placed it, which is a good point. It's a charge no one could defend themselves against if they don't even have to catch you with it.

 

[herm0016]

yes CZ i got it. just pondering how they got the original warrant. also, there does not have to be evidence to prove the "theft" just probable cause to use the rest of the evidence they collected.

 

[BUTCH1]

I wouldn't have a problem with police using aggressive methods to go after a meth dealer but things ALWAYS go too far, take for instance civil forfeiture, there's an example of cop's taking possession of anything of value used in a crime. Hell, around here Sherrif Vogul pioneered simply taking cash from people who were profiled traveling on I-95 in the late '80's. If they found you with say $30,000 in "suspicious" cash it would get seized, they would then offer $10,000 of it back as long as you signed a waiver to any claim on the balance. If you didn't like those terms they kept it all and told you to fight it in court. Factoring in lawyer's fee's and traveling back and forth to appearances, many people just gave up.

 

[interchange]

I'm not sure the whole story is being told. There was cause to place the tracker in the first place. I would personally hope that was executed with some good reason, and I really can't imagine a scenario where doing so would be a lower bar than searching the vehicle or home. I would imagine they'd pursue a tracker to help an overall investigation/identify new targets where searching him would cause them to cease the suspected illegal activity. In that case, I could certainly see a tracker going offline/missing as reason to stop the undercover work. But here the search wouldn't be authorized only for that reason. It would be important information in seeking a warrant because a tracker potentially being found gives significant motivation for your suspects to skip town, etc. Actually kind of analogous to the Steele dossier's inclusion in FISA warrants. Its purpose there was not as independent cause for suspecting Page but rather it's release to the media providing motivation for Page to act to cover up his activity so making collection of evidence more urgent.

But that's a ton of speculation on my part.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

^^^agreed, these things are typically more complicated than what they appear.

 

[cytg111]

Russia? North Korea? - The States? Really?

 

[brycejones]

I would assume a GPS tracker disappearing would be an assumed risk of placing it in the first place. This is no different than someone finding and destroying a listening device.

 

[DarthKyrie]

I would assume a GPS tracker disappearing would be an assumed risk of placing it in the first place. This is no different than someone finding and destroying a listening device.

Now that there is a precedent, you can be charged for that. Contact your local police before disposing of such a device just in case it belongs to them or the FBI.

 

[Jhhnn]

I would assume a GPS tracker disappearing would be an assumed risk of placing it in the first place. This is no different than someone finding and destroying a listening device.

Pretty much. OTOH, it's rural Indiana & the perp isn't very bright. Putting myself in his place, I'd instantly figure it was the cops & pitch it on the side of the road somewhere. Vibrated loose & fell off. A person would have to be vigilant to find any replacement & dispose of it similarly. After a few times through the cops would figure it out but they wouldn't be able to do anything other than try again. Better yet, drive to the cop shop & show them this weird thing somebody put on your truck... hope it's not some kinda bomb.

 

[crashtech]

...Better yet, drive to the cop shop & show them this weird thing somebody put on your truck... hope it's not some kinda bomb.

Genius! Maybe even ask to file a report because someone is obviously stalking you. If it's theirs, there is now no basis for a theft charge, and a report to prove it's been returned.

 

[pcgeek11]

Pretty much. OTOH, it's rural Indiana & the perp isn't very bright. Putting myself in his place, I'd instantly figure it was the cops & pitch it on the side of the road somewhere. Vibrated loose & fell off. A person would have to be vigilant to find any replacement & dispose of it similarly. After a few times through the cops would figure it out but they wouldn't be able to do anything other than try again. Better yet, drive to the cop shop & show them this weird thing somebody put on your truck... hope it's not some kinda bomb.

I'd stick it on a cross country tractor trailer. Let them follow that for a while.