Remind me, what's so great about the nforce2?

[McCarthy]

Numerous memory issues. Look through General Hardware, goes far beyond the Crucial 2700 sticks.

Won't work with WD WD400BB drives. Which are fairly common and certainly not obscure/antiquated.

Gameport won't work if you have a Santa Cruz card. Onboard gameport will work, I've read, if your board happend to include the bracket. Mine didn't.

.0001% slower than the VIA alternatives. Or something silly like that.

What's the advantage? I bought into the hype, got a nforce2 board. I have those two pieces of hardware referenced above and am now out 40gigs and a gameport I need for my gaming preferences because of it.

So nforce2 fans, jump in and tell me why I shouldn't rip this thing out by it's slots and return it to get a VIA based board instead. Please. I don't feel like getting the screwdriver out, but I'm really thinking I should.

 

[Megatomic]

You have had lots of difficulties haven't you? I got lucky, I sold my TBSC to help fund the purchase of the nForce2 board I have. My drives are Maxtors and just fine with this board. I did receive a gameport though I don't need it. But I did have the memory problem. I had to trade 1GB of decent PC2700 for 1 x 512MB of Corsair PC3200.

I must admit, I was tempted to ditch this board and go Intel. For a while. Now I'm happy I stayed with the 8RDA+. It's fast and stable now. Which particular board did you buy?

 

[mechBgon]

Do you want help, or have you already written it off?

 

[mechBgon]

BTW, I may be able to take care of one of your gripes, if you've got an 8RDA+ there. I think I have my dead 8RDA+'s gameport bracket at work, and if I do, I'll send it to you if you want it. As for the WD issue, if you haven't tried this already, set the drive for Single Drive, not Master, Slave or CS, and see if that helps.

 

[RickH]

There is only one thing you have to remember when buying a new motherboard--Intel chipset. Oh, I guess there are two things--Intel processor. All kidding aside, the constant nagging problems are what drove me away from AMD. It's a good product, but the MBs all have issues. R

 

[KF]

>Gameport won't work if you have a Santa Cruz card.

The game port on the Santa Cruz card won't work? Make sure you have the on-board sound and game port disabled in the BIOS and that you did not accidentally install the nForce sound driver. Even if the nForce sound and game port driver does not appear in Device Manager, the start-up probing and initialization could screw up the Santa Cruz.

As for interaction problems of this nature, it seems to me that people who brag up how problem free ANY chipset or mobo is hardly ever do anything even slightly unusual. I'd like to enumerate all mysteries and weirdness I have encountered over the years, but the list would be very long and very boring.

Since the nForce2 is new, the fixes, patches and work-arounds are still accumulating. The big attaction of NForce2 is that it is new and not VIA. People tend to think "the grass is greener on the other side."

 

[Macro2]

RE:"Remind me, what's so great about the nforce2?"

1. Not Intel
2. Not VIA
3. Fast
4. Stable
6. Very good onboard sound

 

[KF]

>All kidding aside, the constant nagging problems are what drove me away from AMD.

My Asus P3We, an Intel 810e mobo, with an Intel Celeron was practically trouble free while I left it alone. It had everything built in. You could get patches for older games that didn't work with it. Then I decided to give it away and put in a modem for the person who wanted it. It took several days of trial and error to find a screwy BIOS tweak, which made no sense, to get around the problems.

I did have a BX chipset mobo (ABIT BH6), and that thing was a jewel. I got it after the BX chipset had been around a while. I believe it was ABIT's second BX mobo. By then every manufacturer of anything had their patches included. I would not say I never had any weirdness with it though. That's what happens when you change something.

To me the Intel vs AMD thing is BS and FUD. But people believe it and that's what counts.

What you really need to be trouble free is to get something that has been around a while, and use a completely boring configuration that is already know to work, and don't change ANYTHING.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

To me the Intel vs AMD thing is BS and FUD. But people believe it and that's what counts.

What you really need to be trouble free is to get something that has been around a while, and use a completely boring configuration that is already know to work, and don't change ANYTHING.

Precisely! If you are going to use the latest hardware then be prepared to become an unofficial alpha&beta tester because compatibility issues and other bugs are part of the experience. If you don't like challenges by all means grab established products with the vast majority of issue addressed and enjoy or buy an OEM with warranty and on-site tech support and be rid of all the troubles completely. Otherwise be prepared to McGyver a few things

 

[floccus]

.0001% slower than the VIA alternatives.

Um, why don't you check out Tom's and then you'll see that the nForce2 dominates the VIa chipsets. Even Anand has an article about how the new KT400A isn't as powerful as the nForce2.

The fact of the matter is that the nForce2 is currently the best chipset on the market for Athlons... I'm not sure why, but they just don't work well with Pentiums, maybe its b/c the Pentium doesn't like working with cheaper and yet superior components

All joking aside... nForce2 is the only real choice if you want the best AMD solution. And those issues you've mentioned... don't think that any other chipset is perfect either... for nVidia to hit this big with only their second design, expect big thigns to come in the future...

 

[eklass]

what's wrong with VIA?

every mobo i've had has been VIA (since 486 days).. never had a single problem... ever

486, Super7, Athlon TBIRD, Athlon TBRED

 

[mboy]

Um, 11.5 x 200fsb 5-2-2-2 + xp2100 = 2.3ghz on air with a Sandra mem bench of 3068/2909, 5.1 sound which sounds nice thru my $50 z640's. fastest chipset out for AMD (yeah even faster then the viakt400a, check anands article).

Oh, rock stable with prime95 and still have all my PCI slots open for, well, whatever!
None of those damn via drivers!!!!!

I have the gameport bracket and no need for it as well. I will send it to you for the cost of ups shipping, just PM me!

 

[Macro2]

RE:"what's wrong with VIA?"

1. Bad memories of 4 in 1 drivers
2. Tired of beta testing their not for prime time chipsets.
3. Their strong arm tactics against SIS
4. COmpared to nforce they are second class.

Good thing is that nForce and SIS have given them a major wake up call in that they can't get away with shipping betas.

 

[mechBgon]

McCarthy, I found the gameport bracket/cable from my 8RDA+. Drop me your mailing address at mechbgon <a t> originpoint <d o t> com if you want me to send it over... it's on the house.

 

[McCarthy]

Just got home...

Bought the Aopen AK79D-1394. No onboard video (that's the G model), liked that it had firewire.
Note: The board I don't dislike, it's nForce issues. Knew going in it didn't have a gameport onboard and the expansion bracket wasn't included, but I had always planned to keep my TBSC. Only dislike specific to the board is the lowest fan header is in the middle instead of the inside edge, front case fan wire didn't reach.

mech - thanks for the offer. As it's a different board I'm not sure if that'll work or not. Have a gameport to USB adapter on the way so hopefully that'll solve the problem for the forseeable future.

Tried the drive as single, as master/slave with another WD, as master/slave with a maxtor, CS with both pairs, CS alone. Never detected. That was what first got me annoyed, wasted several hours pulling my hair out and beating the hell out of google for answers until I finally gave up. Now I see others having the same problem.

TBSC gameport - didn't install the nforce audio drivers, heck hadn't even put the Aopen CD in when I first noticed it wasn't working. Had disabled the onboard sound in bios immediately, went and enabled them thinking maybe that's how it wanted it, no dice. Installed the drivers thinking same thing, no dice.

I agree, the KT400 continues to disappoint. Mad at myself for not going KT333 months ago and instead holding out for the right nForce board to come along only to have problems.

Yup, was mostly a rant. Kinda expected others to jump in with nforce problems too, didn't see mech's offer coming. Do appreciate that. Just read about more nforce problems this morning and it set me off, to my mind the WD400BB issue alone is more of a problem than crackling with one *cough creative* manufacturer's soundcard and the VIA southbridge ever was - at least that worked. Same with the gameport not working at all. Then there's the memory issues. Yet still see an incredible following. Not that it's a bad chipset, just...anyway. So I got irked, better now, thanks guys

 

[yodayoda]

Originally posted by: eklass
what's wrong with VIA?

every mobo i've had has been VIA (since 486 days).. never had a single problem... ever

486, Super7, Athlon TBIRD, Athlon TBRED

does 686B ring a bell? personally, i enjoy my Epia M but i will not get a via motherboard again. i would rather go with nVidia or SiS.

 

[Cerb]

1. Bad memories of 4 in 1 drivers

Aw, you're just no fun!
That's one of the things that got me away from the KT133A and KT266.

2. Tired of beta testing their not for prime time chipsets.

Wait a few months and stick w/ the forums here and amdmb. Notice how few KT333 problems cropped up. As good as Intel, AFAIK, and while my normal setup isn't strange, I've put all kinds of stuff in it for the sake of trying. I'll take a performance hit for the thing acting like a stereotypical Intel.

3. Their strong arm tactics against SIS

Ooo...and what are these? Have not heard of such things.

4. COmpared to nforce they are second class.

Yes, with ALL these problems...
Though I'd go w/ a SiS746 on an upgrade and use a PCI soundcard (too bad I can't use an AX-7 as well), since the KT333 and SiS 735 have spoiled me.

 

[First]

The Crucial PC2700 memory "issues" with nForce2 boards are almost certainly related to a bad batch of chips Crucial received from their supplier. This is confirmed by the fact that Crucial PC3200 memory modules of the same size and SPD timings as the Crucial PC2700 in question work perfectly fine in nForce2 motherboards. This is further confirmed by the fact that certain PC2700 Kingston ValueRAM modules have issues with nForce2 boards (different manufacturers often receive the same bad batch of chips).

Your WD 400BB HDD issues are nothing new. I have tested multiple WD drives with Intel boards that have exhibited the same weird jumper issues as nForce2 boards.

I have no idea why your Game port doesn't work, I haven't heard of any issues and I really doubt there would be any (as the Game port is quite a mature serial technology).

Anyway, I'd like to quickly list what I think you need to take into consideration with any hardware you use:

1. Most hardware issues are user related. For example, before I joined AnandTech last spring I had probably built 100 systems in the 2 years I had been building, and I thought I was pretty damn experienced. )) After joining AnandTech it probably took me a less than one month to realize a dozen different errors I had made with the 100 systems I had built in 2 years, all of which I thought were software/hardware-related before I had access to tons of hardware with AnandTech.

2. Having tested hundreds of desktop motherboards (including just about all of the latest Athlon XP/Pentium 4 desktop motherboards produced in the past 12 months) I can easily say that the vast majority of issues I experienced had nothing to do with the chipset. Most were related to the motherboard manufacturer in question, and there were few at that.

3. All motherboards are not perfect; yes, even a motherboard based on an Intel chipset. Based on my own experience and research in the past year with Anand and on my own time though, on the whole, motherboards are becoming more and more reliable with each passing day. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a $70 motherboard for a server. I would hesitate to buy a $70 motherboard for an overclocking rig though, as the higheset quality components are essential to reliable, out-of-spec operation. And this is what users are mostly complaining about in regards to nForcee2; a motherboard that can't reliably operate out-of-spec.

 

[McCarthy]

Evan - the bad batch of chips is understandable, stuff happens. But why does that same ram work with other chipsets? Or is it failing in others and it's just the nforce related failures are being talked about more?

Game port....from Logitech
"The Nvidia nForce2 chip cannot access the I/O addresses for the Santa Cruz Joystick port.
If you motherboard has a built in game port then here is a work around. This example was on an Epox motherboard.
Disable the Santa Cruz Game Port in the Device Manager.
Enable BOTH onboard Game Port and Midi Port in Epox BIOS:
Default values are:
Game Port 201
Midi Port 330
Midi Port IRQ 10 (5works as well) This was specific to the Epox motherboard your motherboard may differ
Now connect your Game Pad to the onboard game port and use it instead of the (disabled) sound card game port."

Too bad I didn't see that beforehand, but like you said, gameports are pretty mature and you don't expect problems there.

What jumper issues have you seen with WD? I do recall some WD drives preferring to be set CS instead of manually set master/slave on some boards. Thought that's what might be going on for me so I tried it, but no dice.

Where I'm coming from in my disgust isn't that the board is imperfect, all are. But the 686B I just took out only gave me one problem and I can't even be sure it was it. (Video corruption on DV transfers not seen with same 1394 card on my other boards)

I agree on the $70 line of thinking. Built a system around a K7S5A, turned out to be a nice stable, inexpensive computer. It's bug that I experienced was that you couldn't use a PCI video card witout the onboard sound crackling. That unexpected situation changed my build plan then too. Others had different problems. That board wasn't perfect either.

So I agree with you for the most part. It's that last you wrote where I take issue. If I was trying to run it out of spec it'd be one thing, but my problems don't come from hardware abuse. That's what's galling about this.

Is this a good board? Overall I'd say yes. It is stable, it has many options and is working great now that I've identified the problems and adjusted around them. But it's caused me more initial grief than any other board I've ever used - and that includes the no name 486 VLB/PCI/ISA board with the fake cache chips I used to have. So while a rant may not be the most mature way to deal with the frustration I do think it's fair to question nVidia harshly for nForce2 specific problems, wish I'd done it in a better fashion. From what I'm reading these are nForce2 chipset, not board specific problems.