Remember the raids on meat packers using illegal workers?

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
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A union representing workers at six Swift & Co. meatpacking plants sued federal immigration authorities Wednesday, alleging agents violated the workers' rights during raids by roughly handling even those not suspected of crimes.

Just when you thought it could not get any sillier or just downright depressing the idiocy that surrounds Illegal Immigration keeps getting... well you figure it out.


According to ICE, 274 of those arrested during the raids were charged with identity theft or other crimes unrelated to immigration law. Nearly all were convicted, ICE spokesman Tim Counts said Tuesday. He disputed the claim that workers weren't allowed access to phones.

Amazing, so not only are we catching illegals it seems we get lots of other bad guys as well. Apparently it annoys the union because in many states membership is mandatory and they are losing out on some money. Then again it can probably be viewed as a means to bilk the American tax payer out of some money

 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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It will be interesting to see where the unions fall in the whole immigration debate...migrant workers will continue to take jobs that typically fall under union domain, and arguably, unions will require the membership of these migrant workers to stay alive.

On the other hand, migrant workers here illegally continue to depress wages such that many blue collar jobs no longer command salaries to support the households of American citizens who would otherwise work those very jobs.

As for this story, it doesn't surprise me...our legal system is sometimes the greatest barrier preventing our enforcement agents from upholding the law.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
What we need is a $5,000 fine for every worker working in the union illegally. I be the Union collected dues from these illegals! Make the Union pay up.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,350
7,427
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The meat packing plant where Americans lined up to do the job Americans won?t do?
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,452
6,878
136
i can see where the unions look at the illegal workers through pres. bush's eyes, where the illegals are a very large potential source of future union members in that they would eventually acquire amnesty under bush's amnesty program and thus be eligible for joining the unions legally, thus swelling the union ranks with more dues paying members.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation? I swear, everyone loses their God damned minds with certain magic phrases (like "illegal immigration" and "terrorism"), but it's not OK for the police to ignore your legal rights because they are enforcing the cause of the week. Enforce immigration laws, just do it within the laws. That doesn't sound so hard...and if it IS, I suggest we find some new police and law enforcement professionals. It's not rocket science...
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation? I swear, everyone loses their God damned minds with certain magic phrases (like "illegal immigration" and "terrorism"), but it's not OK for the police to ignore your legal rights because they are enforcing the cause of the week. Enforce immigration laws, just do it within the laws. That doesn't sound so hard...and if it IS, I suggest we find some new police and law enforcement professionals. It's not rocket science...

From the sounds of it, no "rights" were violated but rather some people were unconvinced and now wish to sue. But I suppose some think it is a "right" to not be questioned by ICE during a raid.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation? I swear, everyone loses their God damned minds with certain magic phrases (like "illegal immigration" and "terrorism"), but it's not OK for the police to ignore your legal rights because they are enforcing the cause of the week. Enforce immigration laws, just do it within the laws. That doesn't sound so hard...and if it IS, I suggest we find some new police and law enforcement professionals. It's not rocket science...

(ICE spokesman) Counts said civil search warrants gave the agency the right to fully search the plants and question everyone there. Workers were allowed to use their cell phones, company phones and even the phones of federal agents during the operation, he said.

Under what kind of crazy legal system do you live where the defendants are guilty before proven innocent? :confused:
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Under what kind of crazy legal system do you live where the defendants are guilty before proven innocent?
Under what kind of crazy legal system do we live where those breaking our laws exploit the rights this nation provides as a shield from enforcement.

The ICE officials that engaged in the raid had a warrant to do so, and probable cause to question the employees at this plant.

Please let me know if there is a way to determine an individual's citizen status without questioning that individual, or requesting that they produce some form of identification or documentation to prove so.

I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation?
Because illegal immigration is hardly a flavor of the month problem...it is of huge concern, and something our government needs to address aggressively.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
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Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation? I swear, everyone loses their God damned minds with certain magic phrases (like "illegal immigration" and "terrorism"), but it's not OK for the police to ignore your legal rights because they are enforcing the cause of the week. Enforce immigration laws, just do it within the laws. That doesn't sound so hard...and if it IS, I suggest we find some new police and law enforcement professionals. It's not rocket science...

(ICE spokesman) Counts said civil search warrants gave the agency the right to fully search the plants and question everyone there. Workers were allowed to use their cell phones, company phones and even the phones of federal agents during the operation, he said.

Under what kind of crazy legal system do you live where the defendants are guilty before proven innocent? :confused:

I don't know crap about law, but there would seem to be cause for reasonable search here?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation? I swear, everyone loses their God damned minds with certain magic phrases (like "illegal immigration" and "terrorism"), but it's not OK for the police to ignore your legal rights because they are enforcing the cause of the week. Enforce immigration laws, just do it within the laws. That doesn't sound so hard...and if it IS, I suggest we find some new police and law enforcement professionals. It's not rocket science...

so what rights were violated? i would really like to know.

i guess you missed this part.

274 of those arrested during the raids were charged with identity theft or other crimes unrelated to immigration law. Nearly all were convicted

but in your bubble that just doenst matter does it?
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation? I swear, everyone loses their God damned minds with certain magic phrases (like "illegal immigration" and "terrorism"), but it's not OK for the police to ignore your legal rights because they are enforcing the cause of the week. Enforce immigration laws, just do it within the laws. That doesn't sound so hard...and if it IS, I suggest we find some new police and law enforcement professionals. It's not rocket science...

(ICE spokesman) Counts said civil search warrants gave the agency the right to fully search the plants and question everyone there. Workers were allowed to use their cell phones, company phones and even the phones of federal agents during the operation, he said.

Under what kind of crazy legal system do you live where the defendants are guilty before proven innocent? :confused:

I don't know crap about law, but there would seem to be cause for reasonable search here?

I should have been clearer. I meant that Rainsford was implying that the ICE folks were guilty before being proven innocent. Right now, it's the word of some workers versus the ICE personnel. In Rainsfords mind, the workers are right, without having any other information to base that upon.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation? I swear, everyone loses their God damned minds with certain magic phrases (like "illegal immigration" and "terrorism"), but it's not OK for the police to ignore your legal rights because they are enforcing the cause of the week. Enforce immigration laws, just do it within the laws. That doesn't sound so hard...and if it IS, I suggest we find some new police and law enforcement professionals. It's not rocket science...

From the sounds of it, no "rights" were violated but rather some people were unconvinced and now wish to sue. But I suppose some think it is a "right" to not be questioned by ICE during a raid.

Only those that read the constitution would think that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...ed_States_Constitution
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, but under what kind of crazy legal system is it OK for cops to violate your rights because illegal immigration happens to be involved in the situation? I swear, everyone loses their God damned minds with certain magic phrases (like "illegal immigration" and "terrorism"), but it's not OK for the police to ignore your legal rights because they are enforcing the cause of the week. Enforce immigration laws, just do it within the laws. That doesn't sound so hard...and if it IS, I suggest we find some new police and law enforcement professionals. It's not rocket science...

(ICE spokesman) Counts said civil search warrants gave the agency the right to fully search the plants and question everyone there. Workers were allowed to use their cell phones, company phones and even the phones of federal agents during the operation, he said.

Under what kind of crazy legal system do you live where the defendants are guilty before proven innocent? :confused:

I don't know crap about law, but there would seem to be cause for reasonable search here?

I should have been clearer. I meant that Rainsford was implying that the ICE folks were guilty before being proven innocent. Right now, it's the word of some workers versus the ICE personnel. In Rainsfords mind, the workers are right, without having any other information to base that upon.

If you don't mind, I'd like to share what was on my mind when I wrote that post...your ESP skills leave much to be desired.

Some of the workers allege that the way in which they were arrested and held violated their rights, a charge that was apparently dismissed out of hand by the folks posting in this thread because some of the workers were involved in illegal immigration or other illegal activity. I'm not assuming that the ICE workers were guilty, I'm disputing the statements made in this thread implying that it doesn't matter what the ICE workers did because they did it in pursuit of illegal immigrants. I'm sure a court will decide who did what, and I wouldn't put money on this not being simply a smoke screen by the people caught breaking the law. I just don't like the knee jerk attitude from you people suggesting that anything goes when fighting illegal immigration.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
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ICE returned to the plants in July and arrested 20 more people, including a human resources manager and a union representative on charges of recruiting and harboring illegal immigrants. The latter two cases are pending.

This probably has as much to do with the suit as anything.