Remember the hiring freeze that wasn't going to affect the military? Team Smoothbrain does it again.

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...g-freeze-forces-two-army-bases-to-close-child

Lots of jobs have high turnover. Oops, can't replace that child care worker that moved. Now you're understaffed, reducing efficiency and making life hell for the people that remain.

A hiring freeze is a sledgehammer, not a scalpel. It hurts people needlessly so that the fucking chuds in the administration can look tough on spending without doing the difficult work of deciding what gets cut. Nice job shitheads.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,630
35,401
136
The hiring freeze doesn't save any money at all. The agencies are still required to spend every last penny of their appropriated funds.
 
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Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,915
4,958
136
You guys are missing the point. The GoP insists government doesn't work. Doing everything they can possible to ensure it doesn't is about the only way their philosophy could ever possibly be vindicated. And when it does break down the scared and the fearful rush into their awaiting clutches with vote in hand with the hopes that they will fix it. Such a vicious cycle.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
You guys are missing the point. The GoP insists government doesn't work. Doing everything they can possible to ensure it doesn't is about the only way their philosophy could ever possibly be vindicated. And when it does break down the scared and the fearful rush into their awaiting clutches with vote in hand with the hopes that they will fix it. Such a vicious cycle.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. The govt of the people is the only thing that can counter the power of wealth so they'll hobble it & tear it down to nothing if they can. Free market everything other than the bare necessities required to maintain the Lootocracy.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
The hiring freeze doesn't save any money at all. The agencies are still required to spend every last penny of their appropriated funds.
No government agency is "required" to spend all of their allocated budget with the exception of specific entitlements defined by law.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. The govt of the people is the only thing that can counter the power of wealth so they'll hobble it & tear it down to nothing if they can. Free market everything other than the bare necessities required to maintain the Lootocracy.
free market is the only way. Any otehr form of market has been less than efficient or failed miserably. Of course, a free market eliminates the unproductive as well.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
free market is the only way. Any otehr form of market has been less than efficient or failed miserably. Of course, a free market eliminates the unproductive as well.

Yes, the wages of middle class people are the inefficiency in the system.

We obviously don't need things like financial regulation or any of the other frivolous stuff done by a myriad of federal agencies like the FAA, FDA, EPA or any of them.

And the unproductive... you mean the people dumped by the Jerb Creators in favor of offshoring, consolidation & automation with more of it coming every day? Should we let 'em starve or just put 'em out of their misery?
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Just remember, kiddies- killing decent paying govt jobs is actually job creation in the post-truth era. Why, the jerb creators are just dying to put everybody to work but the ebil gubmint is starving them of employees.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,593
24,787
136
Yet another EO not very well thought out. Seems this guy is full of them

https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/22/t...runch)&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook

"One of President Trump’s first moves in office was to order a sweeping hiring freeze across the federal government, preventing hiring for all jobs except for narrow exemptions in national security and the military. Although the executive order hasn’t stirred as much controversy has Trump’s more recent orders on immigration, it will have extensive consequences for government cybersecurity.

Trump has championed cybersecurity as one of the priorities of his new administration (although his executive order on the matter is yet to be finalized). But as long as the hiring freeze continues, critical cybersecurity jobs will go unfilled and students who received federal scholarships to fill those positions will instead be saddled with surprise debt.

Because the federal government has struggled to recruit qualified cybersecurity professionals, it offers several scholarship programs to encourage new graduates to work in the public sector. In exchange for tuition, students are required to take government jobs after graduation. If they fail to find a job, graduates have to reimburse the government.

The CyberCorps Scholarship for Service, established in 2014 and administered by the Office of Personnel Management and the National Science Foundation, is one of the largest of these programs. CyberCorps students attend 66 universities throughout the country, studying computer science and law, and are required to complete internships at government agencies during their enrollment.

But because of Trump’s hiring freeze, students graduating this May can’t be hired by federal agencies, which means the government won’t get the cybersecurity expertise it desperately needs. Now, instead of taking jobs at the FBI or DHS, students who have been preparing to defend the country from sophisticated cyberattacks can try to find IT jobs in local, state, or tribal governments — or pay back their loans.

In addition to tuition money, which varies by institution, CyberCorps also provides living stipends of up to $34,000 per year, travel stipends so students can attend job interviews and recruiting events, and reimbursements for healthcare and textbooks. If the CyberCorps students can’t find jobs after graduation, they could suddenly and unexpectedly owe anywhere from $150,000 to $200,000.

“Prior to the hiring freeze, we were told if we don’t secure employment, we’ll have to pay back tuition and everything else — probably a couple hundred thousand dollars,” a CyberCorps student told TechCrunch. “We don’t know if it would be structured like a loan or if it would all come down on us at once.”

This student, as well as other participants interviewed by TechCrunch, requested anonymity because they feared they would be denied future employment if they spoke out.

“I think all of us would still like the opportunity to work for the government, even though the civil service is in rough shape under the new administration,” another student said. “There’s bipartisan agreement that the government needs cybersecurity personnel badly, but on the other hand, they can’t hire.”

Students said that, despite numerous attempts to pry information from OPM about their employment status, the agency had not given them clear answers. On Feb. 11, OPM issued a memo stating that CyberCorps students could be hired “only if the position is exempted.”


According to OPM, agency leaders “have discretion to determine whether cybersecurity positions fall into a national security or public safety exemption category,” meaning that it’s possible a handful of CyberCorps students could still end up with jobs — if the head of the hiring agency says it’s okay.

Students interviewed by TechCrunch had already received job offers from federal agencies but, because their start dates were scheduled for after graduation, those offers are likely no longer on the table. OPM has instructed agencies to reconsider job offers with start dates later than Feb. 22. With federal agencies after the question, students can still look for jobs in state and local governments, but they say that the types of technical cybersecurity positions they’ve trained for aren’t available at the state level.

“It’s not realistic at all to expect us to move into a state government,” one student explained. “This program was meant to attract qualified people to agencies who had difficulty attracting them in the first place. NSA won’t have trouble because it’s somewhat glamorous. But agencies like DOT need cybersecurity personnel but they have difficulty attracting them because of pay and the prestige of working for Google or Oracle.”

The National Security Agency has its own version of the CyberCorps scholarship, called the Stokes Educational Scholarship Program. It is likely exempted from the hiring freeze because of NSA’s role in national security, but OPM hasn’t issued clear guidance about the Stokes program.

Even though the fate of CyberCorps students is unclear, federal officials are still encouraging students to join the program. US Rep. Michael McCaul, a Republican congressman from Texas and a member of the Homeland Security Committee, touted the program during the RSA conference last week.

“Thousands of students have gone through this program, allowing us to recruit them. America’s doors must stay open to high-skilled workers,” McCaul said.

He also noted that cybersecurity is an urgent issue for the new administration. “We are in the fight of our digital lives and we are not winning,” he added. McCaul’s office declined to comment on the record about the hiring freeze and its implications for the CyberCorps.

“We’re mostly disheartened by OPM,” a student told TechCrunch. “They are the only ones you can go to about the hiring freeze. Even though they manage our program, we haven’t heard a word from them. We’re entirely under their care.”

Improving the pipeline for the cybersecurity workforce was a priority for the Obama administration. CyberCorps was authorized under the Cybersecurity Enhancement Act of 2014, and Obama outlined an expansion of the CyberCorps in the Cybersecurity National Action Plan released last February. Obama’s budget set aside $62 million for CyberCorps and other education programs, including loan forgiveness for cybersecurity students who didn’t attend a CyberCorps school but later joined the federal government."
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,755
16,093
146
I also saw an article where it's negatively impacting child care on military bases. They can't hire replacement staff so they are losing child care.

Now the military voted almost 2:1 for Trump so I'm sure they can deal but these types of freezes can be damaging
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
Hiring freezes, except in very extreme circumstances, are a tool of weak leaders that don't want to make real decisions. They also tend to create a brain drain to your most valuable group, while your least valued groups remain fully staffed.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,262
2,785
126
Yet the hiring freeze was actually a good move. Many government workers make an excessive amount of money for the job they do. We need to trim the fat. Sure there will be unintended consequences but in the end it may help reduce the overhead of government.
 
Dec 10, 2005
29,622
15,186
136
This doesn't surprise me one bit. Anyone who bothered to look at the effects of the last hiring freezes at the Federal level would realize they were useless and often counterproductive.

Yet the hiring freeze was actually a good move. Many government workers make an excessive amount of money for the job they do. We need to trim the fat. Sure there will be unintended consequences but in the end it may help reduce the overhead of government.
Do you ever have anything to add to the conversation besides vapid nonsense?

How about some proof that there are "many government workers mak[ing] an excessive amount of money for the job they do"?
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,742
17,395
136
Yet the hiring freeze was actually a good move. Many government workers make an excessive amount of money for the job they do. We need to trim the fat. Sure there will be unintended consequences but in the end it may help reduce the overhead of government.

Lol! Is all that true in bizarro world, where you live?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,742
17,395
136
This is what incompetence looks like folks! Its no longer amateur hour, it's amateur year x4.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Yet the hiring freeze was actually a good move. Many government workers make an excessive amount of money for the job they do. We need to trim the fat. Sure there will be unintended consequences but in the end it may help reduce the overhead of government.

Stupid troll is stupid troll.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,262
2,785
126
This doesn't surprise me one bit. Anyone who bothered to look at the effects of the last hiring freezes at the Federal level would realize they were useless and often counterproductive.

Do you ever have anything to add to the conversation besides vapid nonsense?

How about some proof that there are "many government workers mak[ing] an excessive amount of money for the job they do"?

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/federal-worker-pay

The federal government employs 2.1 million civilian workers in hundreds of agencies at offices across the nation.1 The federal workforce imposes a substantial burden on America's taxpayers. In 2016 wages and benefits for executive branch civilian workers cost $267 billion.2

Since the 1990s, federal workers have enjoyed faster compensation growth than private-sector workers. In 2015 federal workers earned 76 percent more, on average, than private-sector workers.3 Federal workers earned 42 percent more, on average, than state and local government workers.4 The federal government has become an elite island of secure and high-paid employment, separated from the ocean of average Americans competing in the economy.

Spurred by the large budget deficits of recent years, policymakers have trimmed the growth in federal wages. In particular, they imposed a partial freeze on federal wages from 2011 to 2013, which saved billions of dollars. To find further savings, policymakers should turn their attention to the generous benefit packages received by federal workers. They should also reduce the overall size of the federal workforce by terminating low-value programs.

Trends in Federal and Private Pay

In 2015 federal civilian workers had an average wage of $86,365, according the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA).5 By comparison, the average wage for the nation's 112 million private-sector workers was $58,726. Figure 1 shows that average federal wages grew rapidly for a decade, then slowed during the recent partial pay freeze, and then started rising again in 2014 and 2015.

Why do they get to make more than the national average?
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,651
2,933
136
Yet the hiring freeze was actually a good move. Many government workers make an excessive amount of money for the job they do. We need to trim the fat. Sure there will be unintended consequences but in the end it may help reduce the overhead of government.

IF there are many government workers making an excessive amount for what they do and IF they are "fat" that "needs to be trimmed" the hiring freeze is still asinine because not only does it prevent relatively low paid entry level workers from coming on board it also does nothing to curb existing pay.

Faulty premise is faulty.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
16,134
8,726
136
I also saw an article where it's negatively impacting child care on military bases. They can't hire replacement staff so they are losing child care.

Now the military voted almost 2:1 for Trump so I'm sure they can deal but these types of freezes can be damaging

For many of Trump's supporters including some of those in uniform, they're more than willing to bite the bullet whenever it comes down to defending him and his nonsensical antics.

He can do no wrong to these supporters of his, even as he broke so many of those promises he made to them, and even as he "drained the swamp" right into his own cabinet. He and the GOP promised their supporters their jobs back but the first things they're doing is taking care of their corporate sponsors and benefactors. See you in four years, peasants.

And Good luck getting those jobs back, Trump Troopers, lol. But hey, Trump's going after those dirty rapist criminal illegals, and he's going after those sex perv's, and he's making great friends with Putin and Big Oil, and he's building "The Wall" that keeps getting smaller and shorter every time Trump and the GOP are asked about it, and that's soooo much more important than bringing your jobs back like he promised y'all, right?

As for our military supporting Trump, well, not making excuses for them or taking their side (myself being retired military), but he is their CIC after all, and many of them will dutifully accept any hardships that their CIC burdens them with. It's part of our military culture to do a lot with very little and to do it as ordered or as selflessly volunteered. Jus' say'in. ;)
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,262
2,785
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IF there are many government workers making an excessive amount for what they do and IF they are "fat" that "needs to be trimmed" the hiring freeze is still asinine because not only does it prevent relatively low paid entry level workers from coming on board it also does nothing to curb existing pay.

Faulty premise is faulty.

The fist step in every journey begins with a toe.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
21,540
16,776
136
The fist step in every journey begins with a toe.

Filing this under "give him a chance". I'm just wondering how many "first steps" are allowed before the honeymoon with Trump voters is over, or whether the stylus is stuck in a groove and only an earthquake will dislodge it.

IF there are many government workers making an excessive amount for what they do and IF they are "fat" that "needs to be trimmed" the hiring freeze is still asinine because not only does it prevent relatively low paid entry level workers from coming on board it also does nothing to curb existing pay.

Faulty premise is faulty.

Furthermore, if there is a hiring freeze, the likelihood of "trimming the fat" is lowered because an overpaid employee faced with the threat of pay reduction can just say "or I can just leave and you won't be able to hire anyone to replace me". I suspect they'll have quite some time before the Trump administration "can figure out what's going on".
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,262
2,785
126
Furthermore, if there is a hiring freeze, the likelihood of "trimming the fat" is lowered because an overpaid employee faced with the threat of pay reduction can just say "or I can just leave and you won't be able to hire anyone to replace me". I suspect they'll have quite some time before the Trump administration "can figure out what's going on".

If he leaves then the fat has been effectively trimmed. Consolidate his tasks. Government work is not rocket science.